World religion survey

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

https://www.ipsos.com/en/two-global-religious-divides-geographic-and-generational

Interesting that we are slowly becoming an atheist society.  27% of the UK population believe in God but 39% don't. 

This is a bit at odds with the recent UK census and perhaps strengthens the atheist groups views that the questions asked in the census were deliberately weighted in favour of organised religion. 

There is a far more detailed report that can be downloaded from within the link I've supplied. 

 

[Barbe bleu 833]

I suspect that  a lot of people identify as belonging to a particular religion without believing in (a) God(s)

I've not really come across atheist groups before. They sound like the sort of people who would kick down a kid's sandcastle in front of them because the tide will destroy it eventually anyway.

[A Load of Squit 5,223]

13 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect that  a lot of people identify as belonging to a particular religion without believing in (a) God(s)

I've not really come across atheist groups before. They sound like the sort of people who would kick down a kid's sandcastle in front of them because the tide will destroy it eventually anyway.

I've been to Humanist funerals and weddings. One of the weddings was on a beach, all of the sandcastles were in tact before, during and after the ceremony.

 

[Barbe bleu 833]

11 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

I've been to Humanist funerals and weddings. One of the weddings was on a beach, all of the sandcastles were in tact before, during and after the ceremony.

 

Half of that anecdote is true.   But there never were any literal sandcastles to kick down.  You've made up a story to create a bit of friction of the pink un whilst getting  ready to go to work.  You are a cheeky chappy, I like you!

[KiwiScot 1,489]

Not a lot of countries covered in that.

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

I'm always confused by people who say they are spiritual but not religious. I'm a bit baffled what it is they actually believe. I'm not attempting to belittle anyone, I just don't get it! 

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

18 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Not a lot of countries covered in that.

Not many countries but a huge number of people. 

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

Should have turned out religious but ended up rejecting it. I just find it interesting that "God" is used as a gap-filler to explain what cannot currently be explained, and indeed often used as a means of projecting their own wants under the covers of a higher power.

[PurpleCanary 5,587]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://www.ipsos.com/en/two-global-religious-divides-geographic-and-generational

Interesting that we are slowly becoming an atheist society.  27% of the UK population believe in God but 39% don't. 

This is a bit at odds with the recent UK census and perhaps strengthens the atheist groups views that the questions asked in the census were deliberately weighted in favour of organised religion. 

There is a far more detailed report that can be downloaded from within the link I've supplied. 

 

I had been thinking about this in terms of politics, and the differences between the UK and the US, spurred by the NatCon conference. In the UK people may believe in a god but that has little or no influence on their politics and the politics of the country.

That is not the case in the US, where fundamentalist Christianity is a powerful force, and especially on the Republican party. There were speeches at the NatCon meeting, including from someone distinctly on the right of US politics but also from Tory MPs, that were plainly advocating policies with that kind of Christian religious basis.

Luckily, I suspect, unlikely to do anything but drag the Tory party further into unelectability, as Michael Gove, another speaker, but one who is not completely stupid, seemed to warn.

[sonyc 5,541]

I find the iconography of religious 'things' fascinating but from a perspective of someone with an eye for art. So, the meaning for me, such as there might be, is at least one step away. I don't understand the rituals and the repeated phrases I've heard in congregations but I wasn't brought up with any religious education. 

I have seen a ghost but wouldn't say I believe in ghosts. I have witnessed at first hand many acts of synchronicity but struggle to make sense of them in any way. Certainly I'm unsure to ascribe them to an act of a god.

In terms of @dylanisabaddog's question about being spiritual then again I'm unsure too. I do however think being kind and thoughtful about another person is very important - isn't that a Christian value? I do feel pleased when I hear people like the archbishop criticise this current government because I agree but he is just a social commentator for me. 

It's a difficult one. To believe in some kind of an unknown makes life perhaps a little more special, literally more unknown. Nature, art, music especially all give me a kind of spiritual feeling too. They certainly have the ability to move me and I can't always easily explain why. And that is a counterpoint to ultra realism and the uber scientific way of looking at life. But these have nothing to do with who built the clocks😅

I suppose there is a link to one's world views and politics and as I've suggested on here before I'm on the idealist 'spectrum'. I want to believe things will get better. I have found that way of thinking and trying to understand the world is far more pleasurable, more hopeful. I just hope that doesn't make me sound like a nutter to people 😊 ...and to anyone on here who goes to churches and prays etc you just get on with it, you're fine by me. But when I go into a church I enjoy the feeling of the building itself, the atmosphere. Much the same as walking in woods or across fields.

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

That's a good try @sonycand a nice read but I'm afraid I still don't get it. I love the things that you love but I wouldn't describe the emotions they evoke as spiritual.

I have a sneaky feeling that people tick that box because it makes them feel a bit better about themselves. That's pretty harmless I suppose. 

The thing that surprises me is that Christianity has lost so many followers so quickly in this country and many others, whereas in places like America and Brazil it's still very strong. The same has happened in Poland, Chechia and the Balkans. They were rock solid Roman Catholic until the wall came down.  We're talking about a faith that has lasted for nearly 2,000 years dying out in 40.  It would be interesting to know why. 

It's a documentary waiting to be made. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by dylanisabaddog

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I had been thinking about this in terms of politics, and the differences between the UK and the US, spurred by the NatCon conference. In the UK people may believe in a god but that has little or no influence on their politics and the politics of the country.

That is not the case in the US, where fundamentalist Christianity is a powerful force, and especially on the Republican party. There were speeches at the NatCon meeting, including from someone distinctly on the right of US politics but also from Tory MPs, that were plainly advocating policies with that kind of Christian religious basis.

Luckily, I suspect, unlikely to do anything but drag the Tory party further into unelectability, as Michael Gove, another speaker, but one who is not completely stupid, seemed to warn.

Bizarrely, I know a vicar who doesn't believe in the reserection or any of the miracle stories. He describes it as the world's first example of sexing up a dossier. I wouldn't even dare repeat what he says about Islam. What is very strange though is that he votes Tory, which reinforces your view. 

I didn't read any reports of the NatCon conference. What you say sounds a bit disturbing. 

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

Must admit I'm of the non-believer persuasion although I do like the capricious Greek Gods if you must - seems more 'human' and logical to me; 'believable' if you insist we are created/simulated by a higher power(s) (civilizations -  with all their own faults).

That said when I need to I clap three times at the shrine in Japan, wear my kippah when needed elsewhere and like many have a mixed up protestant and RC background.

Lip service is wonderful thing.

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Must admit I'm of the non-believer persuasion although I do like the capricious Greek Gods if you must - seems more 'human' and logical to me; 'believable' if you insist we are created/simulated by a higher power(s) (civilizations -  with all their own faults).

That said when I need to I clap three times at the shrine in Japan, wear my kippah when needed elsewhere and like many have a mixed up protestant and RC background.

Lip service is wonderful thing.

Must be difficult not knowing if you're a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist. How do you work out whether you need to feel guilty? 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,832]

Christianity may have once dominated Europe but with the fall of the church and Christianity in the west, and how the white western world we live in refuses to have children Islam will soon start to dominate in the coming decades.

Won't be a good thing if you like Western freedoms and ideals but hey ho, that's life

Edited May 19, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Christianity may have once dominated Europe but with the fall of the church and Christianity in the west, and how the white western world we live in refuses to have children Islam will soon start to dominate in the coming decades.

Won't be a good thing if you like Western freedoms and ideals but hey ho, that's life

As women become emancipated and have education birth-rates fall. Same as in Japan. 

Islam will go the same way in an ever more educated world.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Must be difficult not knowing if you're a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist. How do you work out whether you need to feel guilty? 

Is that kama?

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Christianity may have once dominated Europe but with the fall of the church and Christianity in the west, and how the white western world we live in refuses to have children Islam will soon start to dominate in the coming decades.

Won't be a good thing if you like Western freedoms and ideals but hey ho, that's life

Whilst not wanting to get involved with the pros and cons of Christianity and Islam, one thing is for certain. Christians have better bombs. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,832]

29 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Whilst not wanting to get involved with the pros and cons of Christianity and Islam, one thing is for certain. Christians have better bombs. 

I mean Pakistan has nukes. Not that it really matters of course thanks to mutually assured destruction and all so I guess end of the day it's more of a stalemate

[Indy 3,323]

Religion and spirituality is all personal, if it makes people feel better and them in person better people then I like to think it’s great.

It’s not for me, I am too realistic to believe in it, I accepted death and life for what I believe it to be a long time ago, I don’t fear death and I love life, I have little sorrow for humanity but I feel abhorrent with the treatment of humanity to animals and the earth on a global scale, I hate waste and I love life, I respect law and order and I do my best every day to help those less fortunate when I can, my love for animals is well known and I fully appreciate individuality, I never judge people as I don’t know their lives and what they do may be a result of something more stressful.

Life is short, humanity is young and heading for extinction so really it’s al about you in your being and nothing else matters!👍

[KiwiScot 1,489]

Christain religion in this country is weaker as the peer pressure/support in society also has weakened. Less expectation on you join in on things or make effort is certain ways(dressing smart, cleaning common areas,respect to people in certain positions,asking fathers if ok to marry your daughter etc). Changing morals basically meaning you're not getting young people involved, you're not expected to make regular attendances to church, to see a minister/priest, to invite Christ into your life events.

There was 2 massive wars which brought us closer to American culture and the old class system was done away with. People had a sense of freedom and their children were able to express it.  Increases in technology increasing communication and travel bringing us more opportunties. The pill as well along with more womens involvement outside the home.

Can't speak for other relgions though. Islam does stick out though as an relgion which appears strong, but I'd say adherence to an Islamic life here is different to one in Turkey, Nigeria, Indonesia or Saudi Arabia for example.

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

@KiwiScotI hadn't thought about it in terms of WW2 but that could of course be partly responsible. It spawned the baby boom generation who seem to have started the decline. 

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

16 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

As women become emancipated and have education birth-rates fall. Same as in Japan. 

Islam will go the same way in an ever more educated world.

Exactly. Even Iran - which is pretty much a theocratic sh/ithole, has low birth rates from the heydays before this theocratic regime kicked in.

Educating women and giving them equal opportunity will always bring down birth rates as they realise they don't have to become mothers for life to be satisfying. And some of the guff spouted nowadays about career women being less happy is because they're left holding the baby in more ways than one - men in general have not caught up yet in terms of doing their share of the child-rearing.

[sonyc 5,541]

13 hours ago, Indy said:

Religion and spirituality is all personal, if it makes people feel better and them in person better people then I like to think it’s great.

It’s not for me, I am too realistic to believe in it, I accepted death and life for what I believe it to be a long time ago, I don’t fear death and I love life, I have little sorrow for humanity but I feel abhorrent with the treatment of humanity to animals and the earth on a global scale, I hate waste and I love life, I respect law and order and I do my best every day to help those less fortunate when I can, my love for animals is well known and I fully appreciate individuality, I never judge people as I don’t know their lives and what they do may be a result of something more stressful.

Life is short, humanity is young and heading for extinction so really it’s al about you in your being and nothing else matters!👍

"Life is short, humanity is young and heading for extinction so really it’s al about you in your being and nothing else matters"

 

I have pasted your final paragraph Indy. Nice post. Ever since I read Sartre's Nausea as a young man I have been heavily influenced by existentialism. Those every minute decisions that frame your life - the importance of 'commitment'. It's the most read book for me (maybe 7 or 8 times?) including synopses on it. The author's 'hero' in it tries to understand life (and religion). It is such a powerful book (but weird at the start of course for the uninitiated) and there have been favourite book threads before. Nausea tops mine. 

Maybe @dylanisabaddog this book might go somewhere to answering your question about spirituality? Likewise @Indy your comments on death remind me of Castaneda - on treating 'death as your advisor' - a fantastic and wise guide was Don Juan🙂 and another influence on me growing up and in later life.

Edited May 20, 2023 by sonyc

[Indy 3,323]

22 minutes ago, sonyc said:

"Life is short, humanity is young and heading for extinction so really it’s al about you in your being and nothing else matters"

 

I have pasted your final paragraph Indy. Nice post. Ever since I read Sartre's Nausea as a young man I have been heavily influenced by existentialism. Those every minute decisions that frame your life - the importance of 'commitment'. It's the most read book for me (maybe 7 or 8 times?) including synopses on it. The author's 'hero' in it tries to understand life (and religion). It is such a powerful book (but weird at the start of course for the uninitiated) and there have been favourite book threads before. Nausea tops mine. 

Maybe @dylanisabaddog this book might go somewhere to answering your question about spirituality? Likewise @Indy your comments on death remind me of Castaneda - on treating 'death as your advisor' - a fantastic and wise guide was Don Juan🙂 and another influence on me growing up and in later life.

Indeed Sonic, I’ve read through many books on different view points, my Czech side come from very religious backgrounds and I was allowed to make my own mind up, from a very young point I chose my path of Atheism and I haven’t ever changed from it.

For me people who are devoted to their religion place too much emphasis on the current lack of respect and morals to the fall in religion. I totally disagree with that, for me it’s the family and education which needs to be allowed to be more strict instilling rules with consequences as we did when we were kids. Society is at fault and needs to set the ground rules again.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Indy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I used to go to Sunday School but that was because Mum and Dad wanted a bit of time together without me listening in. Nod Nod Wink Wink.

I remember questioning a lot of wha tI was told.even at an early age. My father had a Russian Jewish Father and an Irish Catholic Mother. When he married Mum he turned to the Catholic Church for the Wedding and was denied its use even though his Mum was Catholic because he was part Jewish and marrying a non Catholic.

So he rejected the Church completely and then his Communist beliefs rejected Religion as well. And after listening to him talk to Mum and others about it, I realised so quickly that it is the Opium of the masses.

It is controlling. It is manipulative. It is greedy. It is selfish and also it is dangerous. I know it is all too easy to blame the troubles around many parts of the World including NI as religious wars. Of course they are not solely that. The beliefs within different religions do lead to conflicts and people are forced to choose.

Of course some do marvellous for their communities such as the Sally Army and we should be grateful they exist. But I am far more concerned that the influence of religion and the Church itself is not representative. The recent Coronation was a Religious ceremony. So as an Atheist and Republican, I did not object to but neither did support the event. World leaders love to say "our thoughts and prayers" after a disaster. That is written on the card for them and plays to the massive religious lobbies.

For me, it has too much influence in everything in life. Why are there Bishops in the Upper Chamber? I am not saying they don't have valid views but do ask if they have any real right to be there.

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

51 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

For me, it has too much influence in everything in life. Why are there Bishops in the Upper Chamber? I am not saying they don't have valid views but do ask if they have any real right to be there.

Can't see the problem. If it's good enough for Iran..... 

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

On the subject of religion, did anyone see the Rebecca Vardy documentary about the Jehova Wintnesses? Is it worth an hour of my time? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

On the subject of religion, did anyone see the Rebecca Vardy documentary about the Jehova Wintnesses? Is it worth an hour of my time? 

I don't know but is anything to do with her worth a minute of your time?

[dylanisabaddog 5,015]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I don't know but is anything to do with her worth a minute of your time?

You're probably right but the reviewer for the Guardian admitted to having that attitude before they watched it but said it turned out it's worth a watch.

I think I'd rather rely on you lot for reviews. The Guardian has let me down in the past.