Squad comparison pre Webber and now.

[thegali 6]

1 - John Ruddy
2 - Steven Whittaker
3 - Martin Olsson
4 - Graham Dorrans
5 - Russell Martin
6 - Sebastien Bassong
7 - Steven Naismith
8 - Jonny Howson
10 - Cameron Jerome
11 - Matt Jarvis
12 - Robbie Brady
13 - Paul Jones
14 - Wes Hoolahan
15 - Timm Klose
17 - Sergi Canos
18 - Youssouf Mulumbu
19 - Kyle Lafferty
20 - Tony Andreu
21 - Alex Pritchard
22 - Jacob Murphy
23 - Harry Toffolo
24 - Ryan Bennett
25 - Ivo Pinto
26 - Michael Turner
27 - Alex Tettey
28 - James Maddison
30 - Carlton Morris
31 - Josh Murphy
32 - Vadis Odjidja Ofoe
33 - Michael McGovern
34 - Louis Thompson

 

1 Tim Krul

2 Max Aarons

3 Sam Byram

4 Andrew Omobamidele

5 Grant Hanley

6 Ben Gibson

7 Milot Rashica

8 Isaac Hayden

9 Jordan Hugill

10 Kieran Dowell

11 Adam Idah

14 Todd Cantwell

15 Sam McCallum

17 Gabriel Sara

19 Jacob Sørensen

21 Danel Sinani

22 Teemu Pukki

23 Kenny McLean

24 Josh Sargent

25 Onel Hernández

27 Jonathan Rowe

28 Angus Gunn

30 Dimitris Giannoulis

33 Michael McGovern

42 Tony Springett

45 Jonathan Tomkinson

46 Liam Gibbs

No real improvement. At a basic level he hasn't been great at his job. We now find ourselves in a similar situation Webber was brought in to sort out.

Edited April 6, 2023 by thegali
spelling

[Indy 3,323]

2 minutes ago, thegali said:

 

Do you mean Pre? Or do you know something we don't?

[thegali 6]

Haha, I do.

[Indy 3,323]

2 minutes ago, thegali said:

Haha, I do.

No worries but agree not a huge improvement and pretty much financially in the same boat as when he came in! Fingers crossed for Attanasio take over this summer with some financial support. Still think Webber is a decent DOF and can turn things around with Wagner.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Indy

[NFN FC 1,123]

Definitely more spaced out now 

[Branston Pickle 3,700]

It’s impossible to say, but I think the current squad is better (not least because Wes, Bassong et al are a bit old now, lol!).

[Indy 3,323]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

It’s impossible to say, but I think the current squad is better (not least because Wes, Bassong et al are a bit old now, lol!).

Oh to gave a Wes now, we're lacking that link, we had it in Maddison, Buendia, Pritchard and it certainly shows this season....that 10

[thegali 6]

Definitely miss a good no.10.

[Google Bot 3,329]

I think the current squad is stronger, for what it's worth - trouble is, look how many of those players aren't available for selection:

• 1 Tim Krul
• 2 Max Aarons
• 3 Sam Byram
• 4 Andrew Omobamidele
• 5 Grant Hanley
• 6 Ben Gibson
• 7 Milot Rashica
• 8 Isaac Hayden
• 9 Jordan Hugill
• 10 Kieran Dowell
• 11 Adam Idah
• 14 Todd Cantwell
• 15 Sam McCallum
• 17 Gabriel Sara
• 19 Jacob Sørensen
• 21 Danel Sinani
• 22 Teemu Pukki
• 23 Kenny McLean
• 24 Josh Sargent
• 25 Onel Hernández
• 27 Jonathan Rowe
• 28 Angus Gunn
• 30 Dimitris Giannoulis
• 33 Michael McGovern
• 42 Tony Springett
• 45 Jonathan Tomkinson
• 46 Liam Gibbs

In fact, why is Cantwell on there and not Tzolis?!  THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!! lol 

[The Bunny 314]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

• 14 Todd Cantwell

In fact, why is Cantwell on there and not Tzolis?!  THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!! lol 

Selling players to Rangers does tend to make them unavailable. I assume we're adding Messi, Haaland etc to the list too for completeness? 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,458]

Someone will be along shortly with a 5 page essay to say that you are “demonstrably” wrong. They will be googling as I type. 

[Ulfotto 644]

1 - John Ruddy
2 - Steven Whittaker
3 - Martin Olsson
4 - Graham Dorrans
5 - Russell Martin
6 - Sebastien Bassong
7 - Steven Naismith
8 - Jonny Howson
10 - Cameron Jerome
11 - Matt Jarvis
12 - Robbie Brady
13 - Paul Jones
14 - Wes Hoolahan
15 - Timm Klose
17 - Sergi Canos
18 - Youssouf Mulumbu
19 - Kyle Lafferty
20 - Tony Andreu
21 - Alex Pritchard
22 - Jacob Murphy
23 - Harry Toffolo
24 - Ryan Bennett
25 - Ivo Pinto
26 - Michael Turner
27 - Alex Tettey
28 - James Maddison
30 - Carlton Morris
31 - Josh Murphy
32 - Vadis Odjidja Ofoe
33 - Michael McGovern
34 - Louis Thompson
 

Football is fickle isn’t it, Alex Neil failed to get us even near the playoffs when he was sacked with that squad look at it! Dean Smith was sacked with us in the playoffs with a squad nowhere near as good as the above and is regarded as useless.

[Ulfotto 644]

Just reading the comments how can any think the current squad is stronger. Neil could have fielded 

Ruddy

whittaker bassong klose Olsson

 Tettey howson 

jac Murphy Maddison Brady 

Jerome

and still had Wes, Josh Murphy, Pritchard, canos, Dorrans etc.. on the bench.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

It's better than what he inherited, which was a squad that looked like it was dicing with league one at one point.

There's some proper individual talents in our current squad, most of whom can still be expected not to have reached their peak. The absence of a healthy, quality holding midfielder is what's holding the squad back.

Edited April 7, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Pyro Pete 1,925]

Well, the training ground is better.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

47 minutes ago, Ulfotto said:

Just reading the comments how can any think the current squad is stronger. Neil could have fielded 

Ruddy

whittaker bassong klose Olsson

 Tettey howson 

jac Murphy Maddison Brady 

Jerome

and still had Wes, Josh Murphy, Pritchard, canos, Dorrans etc.. on the bench.

All well and good, but they still finished 8th on 70 points.

[Mengo 825]

1 hour ago, Pyro Pete said:

Well, the training ground is better.

So we keep hearing , possibly a lot of clubs have better training facilities these days 🙃. I know what you mean 😉 PP. It seems to be the excuse to hold on to an everest sized ego , who would jump ship given the chance. 

Will somebody update me on the Soccerbot.  

1. Is it still used

2. Who is the star no1 soccerbot player.

3.is it having any influence  on players.

4. Will it make players come through the academy  to a good level quicker.

5. Or do we just not discuss it and forget it was ever brought  into colney.

Or as somebody keeps saying , just blame me if you need a scapegoat, I'm the one who hires everybody, it's all my fault, not the players or the coaches. I don't read any of it , I ignore the noise. I have no ego , I just like getting a big salary and making podcasts etc, etc. In fact , I think I've been taking the Pìśs for a few years now. 😅 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Mengo

[Mengo 825]

14 hours ago, thegali said:

Haha, I do.

Greeks and Chilean players not part of this equation👍🙃

[KeiranShikari 1,470]

1 hour ago, Mengo said:

Will somebody update me on the Soccerbot.  

 

[Monty13 2,254]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

All well and good, but they still finished 8th on 70 points.

We will be lucky to achieve that this year and given what’s happened in-between that’s the point.

You’re basically agreeing the squad is no better if that’s your issue.

[Google Bot 3,329]

4 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

Just reading the comments how can any think the current squad is stronger.

We'll find out how relatively stronger they are come 8th of May.   Hard to judge in absolute terms, though.

I'd have Krul/Gunn over Ruddy, who knows where Bassong's head was at that point - I'd have Hanley and Klose for sure though, Pukki is far better than Jerome who scored a massive 1 goal in 15 that season.  Murphy, Brady - I think Onel, Sara or Sarge better - depending on formation of course.

Trouble is, you look at the squad as it was then and think of those players at their peak - but they weren't. For example, Wes was taking a lot of flak from supporters for giving the ball away and didn't have a dance partner.  Howson was out the door regardless, told Webber the minute he came in that he wanted to go back up north.  Murphy never really amounted to a great deal.

I mean it's a bit of a silly conversation really, I think where we finish is the key indicator though, and what everyone is more concerned with.  It doesn't hurt to have belief in this set of players as being better - even if it comes served as 'potentially'. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Google Bot

[Mengo 825]

51 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Good stuff KS, 👏 like listening to this guy, feels very honest and down to earth . No BS from him and seems a 100 % guy. EXCELLENT  📹 video. 

 

[chicken 2,655]

12 hours ago, Google Bot said:

I think the current squad is stronger, for what it's worth - trouble is, look how many of those players aren't available for selection:

• 1 Tim Krul
• 2 Max Aarons
• 3 Sam Byram
• 4 Andrew Omobamidele
• 5 Grant Hanley
• 6 Ben Gibson
• 7 Milot Rashica
• 8 Isaac Hayden
• 9 Jordan Hugill
• 10 Kieran Dowell
• 11 Adam Idah
• 14 Todd Cantwell
• 15 Sam McCallum
• 17 Gabriel Sara
• 19 Jacob Sørensen
• 21 Danel Sinani
• 22 Teemu Pukki
• 23 Kenny McLean
• 24 Josh Sargent
• 25 Onel Hernández
• 27 Jonathan Rowe
• 28 Angus Gunn
• 30 Dimitris Giannoulis
• 33 Michael McGovern
• 42 Tony Springett
• 45 Jonathan Tomkinson
• 46 Liam Gibbs

In fact, why is Cantwell on there and not Tzolis?!  THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!! lol 

Or Nunez... however, I do like your approach so I will do the same to the list as of Alex Neil's sacking too.

Key to this is also that Webber didn't arrive until April 2017. So if we are talking about the squad he inherited the following needs to be taken into account:

1 - John Ruddy
2 - Steven Whittaker
3 - Martin Olsson Sold in Jan 2017 so gone before Webber arrived. 
4 - Graham Dorrans
5 - Russell Martin
6 - Sebastien Bassong 12 appearances all season, sadly by the time he left, not many were gutted. Had long since played his best game for us. Zimmermann was a vast improvement. 
7 - Steven Naismith
8 - Jonny Howson
10 - Cameron Jerome
11 - Matt Jarvis 
12 - Robbie Brady Sold in January 2017 so before Webber arrived.
13 - Paul Jones 3rd choice paperweight, considering we have our then 2nd choice as our now 3rd choice too. 
14 - Wes Hoolahan
15 - Timm Klose
17 - Sergi Canos Sold in January 2017 so before Webber arrived.
18 - Youssouf Mulumbu  great defensive midfielder if defensive = wet, soggy, trodden on paper bag.
19 - Kyle Lafferty 
20 - Tony Andreu  loaned out, hardly played for us.
21 - Alex Pritchard
22 - Jacob Murphy
23 - Harry Toffolo Barely ever played a game for us and loaned to S****horpe for the 2016-17 season. 
24 - Ryan Bennett
25 - Ivo Pinto
26 - Michael Turner Old, a bit crocked and out of the side. Made no appearances in the 16-17 season in the league.
27 - Alex Tettey
28 - James Maddison Worth noting that whilst he was a good player, he made his only league appearances for us that season under Irvine, 3 sub appearances for a total of around 30mins. 
30 - Carlton Morris No appearances all season likely injury.
31 - Josh Murphy
32 - Vadis Odjidja Ofoe Sold in August 2016 so gone before Webber arrived.
33 - Michael McGovern
34 - Louis Thompson 6 appearances including sub appearances, 3 in the league, 3 in the cup, otherwise struggled with injury. 

No Wildschut on the list here? 

On that basis:

1-GK: Gunn/Krul/McGovern Vs Ruddy/McGovern/Jones
We are miles better now. Three international keepers Vs McGovern. Now.

2-RB: Aarons/Byram Vs Whittaker/Pinto
Byram's injuries probably edges Whittaker and Pinto, though I think Aarons is better than both as is a fully fit Byram. Whittaker was better with crossing, I think Aarons still has the edge on him. Pinto was quick, but less able with the ball IMHO. Then.

3-CB: Hanley/Gibson/Omobamidele Vs Bassong/Martin/Bennett/Klose
See, for me, at this point in their careers, I would say Bennett would have been the pick of the bunch. Bassong was making more mistakes than a Liz Truss cabinet and Martin didn't adapt as well to CB as was hoped, this forum was rife with people saying it. Plus the addition of Klose who makes it 4 Vs 3. Had you asked this a season or two ago with Zimmermann in form - I would say we had a better defence. Zimbo, for me, has probably been our best all round defender prior to the Haller tackle in the last 10-15yrs. Draw.

4-LB: Giannoulis/McCallum Vs ?
There wasn't a senior left back at the club remaining by April 2017. So really easy straight up win here. Not to mention you can add that we have had Lewis in between as well. Now.

5-CM: Sara/Nunes/McLean/Gibbs/Sorensen Vs Howson/Dorrans/Tettey
So, Howson is the standout, Tettey a great servant and solid at what he did. That said, for me, the best all round Tettey we ever saw was actually under Farke. His passing improved no end and he wasn't the weak leak in that regard, that we had seen exposed in the premier league. Dorrans was meh, nothing special. No better than McLean IMHO. We have more potential now too. Gibbs, Sara, Nunes all have age and potential on their side, less so Sorensen but still younger than the three they have replaced. Howson, pick of the bunch but I think we are better now just because I feel we have better technically gifted players than Dorrans and Tettey - though lacking in a physical DM. Now.

6-AM/Wing: Hernandez/Rowe/Tzolis Vs Wildschut/Pritchard/Jo Murphy/Ja Murphy/Hoolahan
Hoolahan is a club legend, and I would probably say Pritchard of that time edges Hernandez and our other options now. That said, Wes' shine was on the wane. He gave us another fantastic season, one that was heavily influential on Maddison according to the man himself. Not sure I would take the Murphy's or Wildschut above Hernandez or the Rowe we saw last season. If you add Rashica and Marguinhos to the equation it's close. Definitely better depth now. And again, if comparing players in those snapshots - now and players here April 2017 I think you have to say only Pritchard represents a player that was going to be a regular going forward. Edge to then. Then.

7-STR:  Pukki/Sargent/Idah Vs Jerome/Oliveira/Naismith/Lafferty
Really easy one for me. Jerome is the only one you would take really, of those from April 2017. That said, Jerome did not want to stay - and again, from his own mouth, he said he didn't want to stay. So whilst still with us, he wanted to leave. Naismith was one of the main reasons we had to sell the likes of the Murphy's. Pukki absolutely smashes all of them out of the park. Sargent has scored more goals this season as a 22-23yr old than Naismith who was infinitely more experienced at that point. He also has a better temperament than Oliveira. I'd take Idah over Lafferty too. So now. Now.

7 areas. Nows: 4, Draws: 1, Then: 2. Better now. 

[chicken 2,655]

6 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

Just reading the comments how can any think the current squad is stronger. Neil could have fielded 

Ruddy

whittaker bassong klose Olsson

 Tettey howson 

jac Murphy Maddison Brady 

Jerome

and still had Wes, Josh Murphy, Pritchard, canos, Dorrans etc.. on the bench.

Only he couldn't. Brady was sold in August 2016 so wasn't part of the squad Webber found when he arrived. Maddison was sent out on loan to Scotland for the first half of that campaign so only available upon his return in January. As it stands, Neil didn't play him at all bar in the cup before going out on loan. Irvine gave him three sub appearances after Neil's sacking approaching half way through March.

Canos was sold in January 2017 and clearly not favoured by Neil. Dorrans was average. Bassong was shot at that point. Gone were the hallogen days of playing under Houghton and then his brief revival under Neil.

I'm also not at all convinced that Ruddy is better than Krul or Gunn. He was good, but better?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

3 hours ago, Monty13 said:

We will be lucky to achieve that this year and given what’s happened in-between that’s the point.

You’re basically agreeing the squad is no better if that’s your issue

 It has been sporadic, and there's more to it anyway. This has been a disjointed season with a change of manager. They're definitely no worse, but overall they're younger with more scope for improvement than the squad they're being compared to.

[Monty13 2,254]

11 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 It has been sporadic, and there's more to it anyway. This has been a disjointed season with a change of manager. They're definitely no worse, but overall they're younger with more scope for improvement than the squad they're being compared to.

Being no worse after 2 promotions as champions and record player sales, particularly after the mud that was slung at the previous regime for wasting money in a similar position, isn't good enough.

Edited April 7, 2023 by Monty13

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Being no worse after 2 promotions as champions and record player sales, particularly after the mud that was slung at the previous regime for wasting money in a similar position, isn't good enough.

That's your view. There's always an element of chance at our level, which is why I don't subscribe to that sort of absolutism.

[Monty13 2,254]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's your view. There's always an element of chance at our level, which is why I don't subscribe to that sort of absolutism.

So you are saying if we finish 8th that is good enough? 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

So you are saying if we finish 8th that is good enough? 

I certainly won't be slitting my wrists over it, no. There's more to come from a number of our players. A decent holding midfielder will make the difference.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,184]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Being no worse after 2 promotions as champions and record player sales, particularly after the mud that was slung at the previous regime for wasting money in a similar position, isn't good enough.

Eh????? We have been forced into 'record player sales' to make up for the fact that we don't have rich owners and to cover for the unavoidable losses made due to COVID. For logical and reasonable people the fact that we've managed to stay in the same position in spite of continually being forced to sell our best players would be evidence of a job well done.

Of course - this message board isn't anything approaching logical or reasonable.