Yet another VAR rant

[lake district canary 4,540]

Just written this on the Mason thread, but maybe thought it was worth a thread.

VAR is ruining the game. A simple and unequivocable statement, but it's true. It doesn't do anything more than add another layer of incompetence to decision making. Yes, they get it right sometimes, but that isn't the point - football is a spectacle and fans can no longer celebrate goals 100%.  That moment of joy should be instant, not with the thought that it might be subject to mico-analysis to see if a toenail is offside or some such and waiting for two minutes to find out. At least with a flag or referee's whistle the disappointment of disallowing a goal can be instant - which is how it should be.

So when are people in charge of the technology do something about it?  There is this thought that because the technology is there we should be using it, but that isn't the case. Somewhere along the line someone in responsibility has to stand up and say, look this doesn't work, it is devaluing the game for hundereds and thousands of fans - and without fans, football is nothing, so drop it, or at least remove parts of it that don't work well. 

VAR has been around for them to have worked out the best way to use it, but they clearly haven't. A simple offside rule would be possible where there is a margin of error allowed for the flawed technology that gives the attacker the benefit of the doubt on marginal decisions -and it would restore some sense to it.

And we all know it's flawed - they microanalyse a moment on time for offside decsions, judging an attacker, knowing full well that they can't microanalyse when the ball leaves the foot of the player passing it to them, so they are judging two things -something infititesimally small alongside something that is to all intents and purposes cannot be judged exactly.  And then dictating that it is somehow an accurate decison is crazy, illogical and innacurate - and add to that incompetence of people using it and it makes the overall package laughable, if it wasn't so blinking ridiculous. 

VAR as it stands, particularly for offsides, is not accurate - and most other decisions are open to interpretation, so it's not really any better than it was before VAR. 

Technology can be useful, but judgements have to be made as to it's usefulness - and in the case of VAR - someone, somehwere in a position of power needs to stand up and do something about it............I know they won't, so this rant is pointless, but really, if it carries on, we are just witnessing the ruining of what used to be a fantastic sport, in favour of little boys toys being used as if they were meaningful.  Technology isn't automatically wonderful and to be used whenever possible, it has to be used sensibly.

Someone please do something about it.

Pointless rant - finally - over.

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,425]

Been mentioned countless times, but you're not wrong 👍

[Mr Angry 1,570]

Even if you allowed a margin of error for offside you would still have to use something to work out whether the offside was within or without that margin of error.

[Greavsy 2,418]

Just now, Mr Angry said:

Even if you allowed a margin of error for offside you would still have to use something to work out whether the offside was within or without that margin of error.

Your /referee / assistant referees eyes? 👀 

[Haus 259]

9 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Even if you allowed a margin of error for offside you would still have to use something to work out whether the offside was within or without that margin of error.

Nope, change the rules to accomodate the tech.  

Change so that only the feet position matters dor offside, put a chip in the ball and the boots and itd be instant

[Mengo 825]

35 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Just written this on the Mason thread, but maybe thought it was worth a thread.

VAR is ruining the game. A simple and unequivocable statement, but it's true. It doesn't do anything more than add another layer of incompetence to decision making. Yes, they get it right sometimes, but that isn't the point - football is a spectacle and fans can no longer celebrate goals 100%.  That moment of joy should be instant, not with the thought that it might be subject to mico-analysis to see if a toenail is offside or some such and waiting for two minutes to find out. At least with a flag or referee's whistle the disappointment of disallowing a goal can be instant - which is how it should be.

So when are people in charge of the technology do something about it?  There is this thought that because the technology is there we should be using it, but that isn't the case. Somewhere along the line someone in responsibility has to stand up and say, look this doesn't work, it is devaluing the game for hundereds and thousands of fans - and without fans, football is nothing, so drop it, or at least remove parts of it that don't work well. 

VAR has been around for them to have worked out the best way to use it, but they clearly haven't. A simple offside rule would be possible where there is a margin of error allowed for the flawed technology that gives the attacker the benefit of the doubt on marginal decisions -and it would restore some sense to it.

And we all know it's flawed - they microanalyse a moment on time for offside decsions, judging an attacker, knowing full well that they can't microanalyse when the ball leaves the foot of the player passing it to them, so they are judging two things -something infititesimally small alongside something that is to all intents and purposes cannot be judged exactly.  And then dictating that it is somehow an accurate decison is crazy, illogical and innacurate - and add to that incompetence of people using it and it makes the overall package laughable, if it wasn't so blinking ridiculous. 

VAR as it stands, particularly for offsides, is not accurate - and most other decisions are open to interpretation, so it's not really any better than it was before VAR. 

Technology can be useful, but judgements have to be made as to it's usefulness - and in the case of VAR - someone, somehwere in a position of power needs to stand up and do something about it............I know they won't, so this rant is pointless, but really, if it carries on, we are just witnessing the ruining of what used to be a fantastic sport, in favour of little boys toys being used as if they were meaningful.  Technology isn't automatically wonderful and to be used whenever possible, it has to be used sensibly.

Someone please do something about it.

Pointless rant - finally - over.

The rant is frustration  lakey. So many people feel the same. I'm sure the biggest percentage of referees feel the same about it. It's actually severely devalued the referees job. It must cost a fortune to run this VAR circus. Yes it's a circus which has crippled the game of football. It's actually made the game less professional.  It's a joke.

Referees will get worse because of this system. This is not helping the game one little bit. 

 

 

 

[HazzaJet 256]

It’s only worth for using for handballs and violent conduct. If a decision over a penalty/offside that ends up affecting a team’s result is made it just causes as much outrage amongst the team it went against

[Mengo 825]

15 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Your /referee / assistant referees eyes? 👀 

Exactly this 💯 %.  AS it stands there is no point having assistant referees , the intention of good technology 👍 was something  that was to be admired , but has turned into a nightmare scenario and getting worse not better by any stretch of the imagination. 

[ridgeman 135]

I have no problem with VAR, the problem is with those that administer it. It was Riley initially who didn't want referees to use the pitch side monitor until  Colina said they were to be used. Surely it is the job of those watching VAR to bring to the attention of the referee any incident that is not within the laws of the game. The offside rule coud be changed to say there must be daylight between the defender and attacker rather than whose big toe or nose was the furtherest forward. I am not certain that Webb is the man to sort this mess out didn't he show  the same player two yellow cards in a game without sending him off.

I would like to see the FA bring in regulations for referees rather than leave it to PGMOL but the FA are not fit for purpose.

[Greavsy 2,418]

38 minutes ago, Haus said:

Nope, change the rules to accomodate the tech.  

Change so that only the feet position matters dor offside, put a chip in the ball and the boots and itd be instant

Penalizing people who have bigger feet then! 😊 😊 

Football is a game of fine margins and they all bend the rules to try to gain as much advantage as they possibly can. 

It used to be a simple game, which was replicated by youngsters playing out their heroes over the park.. Its got so very far away from that now. And there is only one reason. Kerching. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Just written this on the Mason thread, but maybe thought it was worth a thread.

VAR is ruining the game. A simple and unequivocable statement, but it's true. It doesn't do anything more than add another layer of incompetence to decision making. Yes, they get it right sometimes, but that isn't the point - football is a spectacle and fans can no longer celebrate goals 100%.  That moment of joy should be instant, not with the thought that it might be subject to mico-analysis to see if a toenail is offside or some such and waiting for two minutes to find out. At least with a flag or referee's whistle the disappointment of disallowing a goal can be instant - which is how it should be.

So when are people in charge of the technology do something about it?  There is this thought that because the technology is there we should be using it, but that isn't the case. Somewhere along the line someone in responsibility has to stand up and say, look this doesn't work, it is devaluing the game for hundereds and thousands of fans - and without fans, football is nothing, so drop it, or at least remove parts of it that don't work well. 

VAR has been around for them to have worked out the best way to use it, but they clearly haven't. A simple offside rule would be possible where there is a margin of error allowed for the flawed technology that gives the attacker the benefit of the doubt on marginal decisions -and it would restore some sense to it.

And we all know it's flawed - they microanalyse a moment on time for offside decsions, judging an attacker, knowing full well that they can't microanalyse when the ball leaves the foot of the player passing it to them, so they are judging two things -something infititesimally small alongside something that is to all intents and purposes cannot be judged exactly.  And then dictating that it is somehow an accurate decison is crazy, illogical and innacurate - and add to that incompetence of people using it and it makes the overall package laughable, if it wasn't so blinking ridiculous. 

VAR as it stands, particularly for offsides, is not accurate - and most other decisions are open to interpretation, so it's not really any better than it was before VAR. 

Technology can be useful, but judgements have to be made as to it's usefulness - and in the case of VAR - someone, somehwere in a position of power needs to stand up and do something about it............I know they won't, so this rant is pointless, but really, if it carries on, we are just witnessing the ruining of what used to be a fantastic sport, in favour of little boys toys being used as if they were meaningful.  Technology isn't automatically wonderful and to be used whenever possible, it has to be used sensibly.

Someone please do something about it.

Pointless rant - finally - over.

It's not ruining the game; poor implementation is preventing it from resolving the many issues in the refereeing in the sport that existed before it was implemented.

VAR has contibuted very positively to better outcomes in many sports. There's no rational reason for it not to be successful in Football other than because of incompetence and/or corruption.

[Greavsy 2,418]

27 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's not ruining the game; poor implementation is 

Poor implementation of var is ruining the game. 

Agreed it works well in other sports, but they are more stop start ones, so, easier to conduct a review with less intrusion. 

The var we have had delivered isn't the one that was sold / promised to us. 

As said in a commentary last weekend, var are looking at that but not having a full review? Erm what were they only using one eye? Tbf that's one more than Lee Mason did! 

I didn't realise we had tiered var, and my understanding was it was only going to be used in certain circumstances, which they now seem to apply at random. 

Get rid, and let the spectators at the game get some enjoyment back. 

Another thing I don't get is when watching live and there is a review and the commentators say the var decision before the referee has indicated it. Are the broadcasters listening in? I remember when they commentated on events as they happened, not before (or in Kammys case didn't notice at all!) 

[dylanisabaddog 4,965]

Has anyone seen the 4th Arsenal goal today? It wasn't even questioned but I thought when Martinelli got the ball there was only one Villa player between him and the goal. The Villa keeper had gone up for a corner. 

It didn't matter in the end but I'd be grateful for another opinion. 

[Indy 3,310]

Do away with offside, open the pitch and makes the game more exciting!

[AJ 1,224]

VAR isn't ruining the game, but the way we are utilising it in English is. 

[CDMullins 441]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Has anyone seen the 4th Arsenal goal today? It wasn't even questioned but I thought when Martinelli got the ball there was only one Villa player between him and the goal. The Villa keeper had gone up for a corner. 

It didn't matter in the end but I'd be grateful for another opinion. 

You can't be offside in your own half.

[dylanisabaddog 4,965]

7 hours ago, CDMullins said:

You can't be offside in your own half.

Was he still in his own half when the ball was played? 

[CDMullins 441]

4 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Was he still in his own half when the ball was played? 

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have cited that rule would I?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,566]

18 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Poor implementation of var is ruining the game. 

Agreed it works well in other sports, but they are more stop start ones, so, easier to conduct a review with less intrusion. 

The var we have had delivered isn't the one that was sold / promised to us. 

As said in a commentary last weekend, var are looking at that but not having a full review? Erm what were they only using one eye? Tbf that's one more than Lee Mason did! 

I didn't realise we had tiered var, and my understanding was it was only going to be used in certain circumstances, which they now seem to apply at random. 

Get rid, and let the spectators at the game get some enjoyment back. 

Another thing I don't get is when watching live and there is a review and the commentators say the var decision before the referee has indicated it. Are the broadcasters listening in? I remember when they commentated on events as they happened, not before (or in Kammys case didn't notice at all!) 

In the Ireland France Rugby game, there was an awesome try scored where one of the French players was trying to push the Irish player out of play. The Irish player got the ball on the ground milliseconds before touching the corner flag and his body coming into conact with the ground at the side of the pitch. Everyone in the ground and on TV got to see the review as it was happening trying to ascertain whether it was legal or not.

Everyone loves debating the controversies anyway, so why shouldn't people be entertained by the review of whether it was legal as well? It's just a question of the way you look at it.

Much of the argument against VAR could be as easily be applied to referees anyway. Every time a referee blows the whistle he's interfering in the play, a fair chunk of the time he's blowing up when he shouldn't and not blowing up when he should. At that rate you could argue that everybody should want to get rid of referees as well, instead of looking at what VAR, referees, and the rules are doing wrong to make it such a mess.

There's simply too much money at stake over bad decisions for it to be acceptable not to throw everything possible at making sure all decisions are good decisions.Debating whether VAR should be there is the wrong debate; debating why football's authorities are too incompetent to successfully implement both decent refereeing and decent VAR should be the debate.

Edited February 19, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[dylanisabaddog 4,965]

33 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Yes, otherwise I wouldn't have cited that rule would I?

Difficult to tell from the video but looks like he had one foot in each. The problem with VAR is that they don't share what they're checking and why. Perhaps they should try watching a bit of cricket and rugby. 

[essex canary 504]

Any VAR review for offside should be undertaken with the naked eye and from the perspective of (in old language), whether the attacker is seeking to gain an advantage by being in an offside position.

Quite straightforward if only the football authorities had an ounce of sense.

[CDMullins 441]

49 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Difficult to tell from the video but looks like he had one foot in each. The problem with VAR is that they don't share what they're checking and why. Perhaps they should try watching a bit of cricket and rugby. 

You need to go to Specsavers mate.