Is the squad stronger or weaker under Webber

[ridgeman 153]

As reported Webber has been here over five years I couldn't help but thinking has he improved our squad or not. When he arrived we had Lewis, Godfrey, Murphy x 2, Howson, Maddison, Pritchard and others that he has sold. Thinking of our present squad we have five wingers that aren't up to standard our defence seems vulnerable our midfield gets over run and our forwards can't find the net. Personally I don't think the current squad is as good as that he inherited what do other people think. He now says he is here for the long term! What do other people think.

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

2018 maybe weaker 

2019 maybe stronger 

2020 maybe weaker 

2021 maybe stronger

2022 maybe weaker 

2023 ?

 

 

 

[Capt. Pants 5,005]

You would have thought that after 2 visits to the Premier League it would have been stronger overall compared to 2018. 

I'm not sure it is, especially midfield.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

1 hour ago, ridgeman said:

As reported Webber has been here over five years I couldn't help but thinking has he improved our squad or not. When he arrived we had Lewis, Godfrey, Murphy x 2, Howson, Maddison, Pritchard and others that he has sold. Thinking of our present squad we have five wingers that aren't up to standard our defence seems vulnerable our midfield gets over run and our forwards can't find the net. Personally I don't think the current squad is as good as that he inherited what do other people think. He now says he is here for the long term! What do other people think.

 

At least the squad he inherited didn't cost two seasons of parachute money and was worth a bit in the marketplace. Now we although we have a decent bunch of players, for sure and one tipped by many as favourites, they need to show it and soon.

I hope success with Wagner goes to show what a bad fit Smith was,

My stance at the moment is to blame everything on Dean Smith. I may be wrong, and if so I will have to re-assess. Webber comes next. Mamy would put him first in any case, but I'm just going on the league placing and Smithball for now,

It's good to seek blame, but maybe some sort of decline was necessary once the self-supporting model  failed to do just that, and considering success in football is cyclical.

Getting into debt based upon future parachutes is not self-supporting, imo.

Edited January 12, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[By Hook or Ian crook 943]

I’m at a cross roads about deciding if the squad is very weak this season or if they have just been poorly coached for the last 16 months. I shall give myself some time to see how things come by may. In truth I feel there is major elements of both poor recruitment and poor coaching that’s lead to this current group. 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

You would have thought that after 2 visits to the Premier League it would have been stronger overall compared to 2018. 

I'm not sure it is, especially midfield.

To be fair McNally had four seasons. 

 

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

Webber’s strong trading on a shoestring like Alex Neil, give him a few quid and it’s carnage. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

The stronger/weaker argument is probably more to do with the pools we’re fishing in than anything. With our budget, we need ‘rabbits from hats’ and that just isn’t consistently viable; at least I don’t think it is.

You need a bit of luck as we always have and he - I believe - has engaged in utilising statistics to identify players or “types” that might fit. But he isn’t and wasn’t ever going to produce a conveyor belt of Buendias and Pukkis. If he had, he’d have been long gone.

That, I suppose, could be interpreted as failure, but the luck factor remains. Was Kabak a dreadful signing? In hindsight, yes. But he couldn’t have predicted the long term illness etc and he was one I was positive about. Tzolis, Rashica… probably as much to do with trying to move away from Farkeball, be more direct as Farkeball had previously failed? But, again, that could be me applying the aforementioned hindsight. Transfer policy at every club is hit and miss, some work, some don’t. Look at the cack Man U have bought/bought back in recent years.

If I was trying to be balanced, we’re probably better stocked in some areas and worse off in others. And players have depreciated. Our problems stem from being worse at centre back, having fewer midfield options and we still seriously miss the threat and spark of a player far too good for the division. We even had that in Farke’s first season.

Sargent, Pukki and Idah mean we’re stronger there though, I suspect. It’s just all the people that could pull the strings have gone. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Load of waffle for basically, meh, a bit of both. Sorry. 🙂

[chicken 3,081]

3 hours ago, ridgeman said:

As reported Webber has been here over five years I couldn't help but thinking has he improved our squad or not. When he arrived we had Lewis, Godfrey, Murphy x 2, Howson, Maddison, Pritchard and others that he has sold. Thinking of our present squad we have five wingers that aren't up to standard our defence seems vulnerable our midfield gets over run and our forwards can't find the net. Personally I don't think the current squad is as good as that he inherited what do other people think. He now says he is here for the long term! What do other people think.

Lewis - I would say we've had as good, arguably better LBs since. Giannoulis is certainly a similar type of player. But without the creativity we haven't seen the best of either full back positions really.

Godfrey - now it's worth noting at this point that as a CDM he had only performed to top League One standard. Obviously there were questions about whether he would make it in that position. Farke then, and I am guessing based upon stats, converted him into a CB and that is essentially what turned him into the money. So you could argue that whilst he was here, his future hanged in the balance and bringing in Farke potentially altered the course of his career in an upward trajectory. 

Murphy's and Pritchard - We've had better since. Buendia and Cantwell (when on form) were both better than those. I mean, look at Josh Murphy - currently playing for Oxford in League One. I am pretty sure that we have better at the club at the moment. He moved on too soon, to a club that wasn't really better than ours. Jacob is another interesting one. He's almost been converted to a full back/wing back and has at times looked like he was on his way out the door at Newcastle. Again, as a winger, Buendia was definitely better.

Maddison is a rare find. He should have played much more for us than he did, instead of being loaned out. He was easily worth a start over Watkins and a few others. He'd walk into any Norwich squad of the last decade really, could you imagine a 4-2-3-1 with Hoolahan, him and Buendia... 

Howson was one I never wanted to see leave. We doubled our money on him getting £6m for him. However, despite the move he's never returned to the premier league and Middlesbrough have rarely mounted much of a push with him there. And even though he has surpassed his appearance numbers for us (shocked me seeing that) he has only scored 6 goals compared to the 24 he did for us.

I think we have arguably had as good CM's as him, Vrancic certainly had technique and ability. Reed and Skipp had the same engine. Possible that Nunez or Sara could yet work out to be better. Normann showed glimpses and would probably be more than good enough at this level.

So other than the glaringly obvious there, the likes of Godfrey and Maddison, possibly Howson, we have had better players since.

However, the problem has always been holding onto those players and converting their talent into staying up. Arguably some of those players are better than players that played under Alex Neil, yet we didn't achieve more, or get closer to achieving more with them in our side.

[chicken 3,081]

32 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

To be fair McNally had four seasons. 

And I think probably spent a similar amount of money in the Alex Neil premier league season? 

[Mengo 852]

The squad is weaker . But a lot of this is a mindset.  The here and now and where we are. Step back Webber , and let wagner do his job.  He will turn it round and make you look much better than you really are.

[Mr Angry 2,014]

2016/17 season

2022/23 season

[GJP 79]

10 minutes ago, Mengo said:

The squad is weaker . But a lot of this is a mindset.  

And ability.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

15 minutes ago, chicken said:

And I think probably spent a similar amount of money in the Alex Neil premier league season? 

And we had nothing to show for it.

We went to fans meeting after fans meeting, AGM after AGM, heard and agreed to spending all income on the playing squad. 

I think this forum needs more memory. 

[Mengo 852]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

And we had nothing to show for it.

We went to fans meeting after fans meeting, AGM after AGM, heard and agreed to spending all income on the playing squad. 

I think this forum needs more memory. 

Sometimes I just love your reasoning ,  its  priceless. AND your probably correct this forum needs more memory to (engage with reality.)

For everything else ,there's Mastercard. 

[Mengo 852]

48 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

The stronger/weaker argument is probably more to do with the pools we’re fishing in than anything. With our budget, we need ‘rabbits from hats’ and that just isn’t consistently viable; at least I don’t think it is.

You need a bit of luck as we always have and he - I believe - has engaged in utilising statistics to identify players or “types” that might fit. But he isn’t and wasn’t ever going to produce a conveyor belt of Buendias and Pukkis. If he had, he’d have been long gone.

That, I suppose, could be interpreted as failure, but the luck factor remains. Was Kabak a dreadful signing? In hindsight, yes. But he couldn’t have predicted the long term illness etc and he was one I was positive about. Tzolis, Rashica… probably as much to do with trying to move away from Farkeball, be more direct as Farkeball had previously failed? But, again, that could be me applying the aforementioned hindsight. Transfer policy at every club is hit and miss, some work, some don’t. Look at the cack Man U have bought/bought back in recent years.

If I was trying to be balanced, we’re probably better stocked in some areas and worse off in others. And players have depreciated. Our problems stem from being worse at centre back, having fewer midfield options and we still seriously miss the threat and spark of a player far too good for the division. We even had that in Farke’s first season.

Sargent, Pukki and Idah mean we’re stronger there though, I suspect. It’s just all the people that could pull the strings have gone. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Load of waffle for basically, meh, a bit of both. Sorry. 🙂

Don't apologise Dunc. SPOT ON. your view and opinion are what we need to hear more of. 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

3 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Sometimes I just love your reasoning ,  its  priceless. AND your probably correct this forum needs more memory to (engage with reality.)

For everything else ,there's Mastercard. 

I don't really have reasoning. Just a memory. So that probably explains all 🙃

[Mengo 852]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

I don't really have reasoning. Just a memory. So that probably explains all 🙃

That explains it nutty. At our age its very important to have that memory. Because let's face it that what life is all about (memories). Loose them and it's game over. I remember my old mam  who lived till 95 and never looked at old pictures . Because she said I don't need them , I have all that stored in my memory. Her writing ✍️ was immaculate right up till the day she died. Writing, what's all that about these days 🤔,  I'm using one finger , look at me  , phew!!!

 

[nutty nigel 7,902]

30 minutes ago, Mengo said:

That explains it nutty. At our age its very important to have that memory. Because let's face it that what life is all about (memories). Loose them and it's game over. I remember my old mam  who lived till 95 and never looked at old pictures . Because she said I don't need them , I have all that stored in my memory. Her writing ✍️ was immaculate right up till the day she died. Writing, what's all that about these days 🤔,  I'm using one finger , look at me  , phew!!!

 

See I've got this memory but don't know what to do with it. You've got that reasoning but don't know what to do with it. We should team up and we'd be magic. Or that's what John Bond would call us🙃

Your mam was right we only need pictures to share the memories with others 🙃

 

[Google Bot 3,927]

There's some potentials in there, for sure - way above what we had when he came in. 

But in terms of the squad I'd say it's weaker due to how imbalanced it all is - we've got so in the same position yet lacking fit, capable creative players and that killer central guy.

That said, we're now on our third manager in 14 months and if we fail to turn things around this squad is going to get a whole lot weaker... But, then it may become more balanced, so will build to be greater..... And around we all go again! 🙂

Edited January 13, 2023 by Google Bot

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,830]

 

9 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

2016/17 season

2022/23 season

16/17.                  22/23

Ruddy       <     Krul 

Jones       <.     Gunn 

McGovern   >    McGovern 

Rudd.          >.         Barden 

Pinto     <.      Aarons 

Whittaker   <.    Byram 

Dijks    >.     McCallum 

             <.      Giannoulis 

Martin    =      Hanley 

Bassong.    >    Gibson 

Klose      >     Omobamidele.  (For now) 

Turner.       >.      Tomkinson (purely experience) 

Bennett  > 

Godfrey.       > 

Naismith      >      Sinani 

Jarvis.       >.      Hernandez

Wildschut     =.      Rowe ( for now ) 

Jacob Murphy.     >.    Springett 

Josh Murphy.    >.       Placheta 

Dorrans.      >.     McLean 

Tettey     >.      Hayden 

Howson.     >   Sara. 

Thompson.     <.      Gibbs 

                         <.        Sorensen 

Maddison         =      Nunez 

Pritchard.        >.        Dowell 

Hoolahan.          >.        Cantwell  

Oliveira.         <.      Pukki 

Jerome.           >.         Sargent 

Lafferty.             =.         Idah 

Morris.             =.            Hugill