Unofficial Reading v Norwich match thread with all the news

[kirku 1,334]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

Total strawman.

From what I've seen everyone agrees the football could and should be better.

However, most accept that fluency takes time, particularly when we had such a dreadful loser's mentality.

How long do you think this should take? Smith's been in charge for about a year now.

There are many posters on here, myself very much included, who are asking people what Smith's plan is. Perhaps you've identified something we've missed.

If fluency takes time, it should be a broadly linear progression, so what is that?

[kirku 1,334]

12 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

That side was never defensively solid. Our domination of the ball perhaps hid it sometimes but that defence had two or three errors a game in it and Skipp hid a few sins.

Oh for Skipp in there now. Perhaps after Christmas if he’s still not getting games at Spurs? 

 

It was certainly more defensively solid than anything else we'd seen from Farke and, I'd suggest, more so than anything we've seen thus far from Smith.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Crap game, point won, 4 from 6 in October with 6 games to play. Still to face Sheffield Utd, Watford and Burnley this month. Away game tonight, no over exertion. Saturday is must win imo, purely based on being at home against oppo that seemingly don’t try and score much! If we break Preston down then we can take that forward momentum into tougher games. 
16 from 24 this month is the minimum target, 18+ Would be a big achievement, under 16 not really a good enough return. I expect and hope squad depth helps us in the final 2-3 games where others strength in depth is tested. Style over substance can wait for now. Let’s get our noses in front and see what good feeling that might breed. 

OTBC

[Jim Smith 2,322]

4 minutes ago, kirku said:

It was certainly more defensively solid than anything else we'd seen from Farke and, I'd suggest, more so than anything we've seen thus far from Smith.

This side is more defensively solid than that one. 

[markdmhoward 74]

23 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

You must be new here…it’s par for the course. Under Smith if we win we were lucky, if we draw we were lucky, if we lose we got what we deserved.  You don’t even need to watch  to know this to be true.

The negative tone on everything just gets really dull. Yes they could play better but they're still second. I want them to win. 

 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Well, we played poor yet somehow sitll unbeaten and end of the day point away from home from the team in 3rd who have the best defensive record in the league is not bad at all  

What? Where do you get this rubbish, Only 4 teams have conceded more than them and we managed 1 shot on target! 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

9 minutes ago, kirku said:

Yes, those may well be the stats, but I'm asking what we think our attacking gameplan is. Even on a basic level, and it's not meant to trip anyone up. I genuinely don't understand what it is we're trying to do to create regular goal scoring opportunities - do you?

I also agree that we've looked better with Sargent through the middle - but I also suspect that's because Sargent's main attributes are his work-rate and nuisance factor - which make him more effective in a system that inherently isn't built to make the most out of our most proven attacking player.

Is that something we should be building on? Is that a style of play that's likely to both get us promoted and stand us in better stead to survive in the Premier League? I can't see it myself

I don't think we're going for any one attacking game plan. I think he's varying it according to who we're playing and we are getting goals more and more reliably. The introduction of a set piece coach is clearly working out as well. 

The way I look at it is, even at the end of this season, we will not be good enough to survive in the Premier League, any more than we were under Farke, so the key thing about this season is forget about being perfect, focus on getting the points while putting all our players through their paces and experiment so there's a really clear idea of what we have for next season, then buy in what we need to to fill the gaps courtesy of our lovely new director/likely future owner. 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

36 minutes ago, kirku said:

Oh, so "by looking for the winner" you meant that we had the ball broadly in their half for the last 10 minutes without creating a single decent chance?

There's watching and there's watching, apparently

We were looking for the winner but unfortunately failed to quite create the chances  - partly as they were defending in numbers, so it’s something to work on.  The fact that they were far happier with the point at the end of the game ought to tell you something.  Your point is strange.  

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't think we're going for any one attacking game plan. I think he's varying it according to who we're playing and we are getting goals more and more reliably. The introduction of a set piece coach is clearly working out as well. 

The way I look at it is, even at the end of this season, we will not be good enough to survive in the Premier League, any more than we were under Farke, so the key thing about this season is forget about being perfect, focus on getting the points while putting all our players through their paces and experiment so there's a really clear idea of what we have for next season, then buy in what we need to to fill the gaps courtesy of our lovely new director/likely future owner. 

I don’t think some people are quite willing to listen to answers to the questions they pose.

The thing about a game plan is that it can be good to be unpredictable - one huge criticism of DF was that he was far too predictable and unwilling to change.  It seems one criticism of DS is that he does it too much.

[kirku 1,334]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

This side is more defensively solid than that one. 

Can't see it myself.

As you rightly identified, we had Skipp holding that year and he was imperious. The system also looked more solid to me. How many clean sheets have we had this season? 

I've not seen anything to suggest that we're going to be any harder to break down if we were to be promoted and a lot to suggest that we wouldn't be anywhere near as fluid in the attacking third

[CDMullins 436]

20 minutes ago, Ian said:

You think a year is a reasonable amount of time to judge the progress of a yo-yo "self funding" club who have recently been relegated from the Prem?

I don't. Maybe that's why I seem to be at odds with a fair few on here tonight.

Considering this industry it's bizzare that you think otherwise.

Smith as been lucky that he has been on the right side of the odd few goals here and there.

Had that start have extended to 5/8/10 games, he'd have been gone for sure.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t think some people are quite willing to listen to answers to the questions they pose.

The thing about a game plan is that it can be good to be unpredictable - one huge criticism of DF was that he was far too predictable and unwilling to change.  It seems one criticism of DS is that he does it too much.

Absolutely. Also, Farke's style was too clinically precise for the quality of technicians we can afford to sustain above Championship level, and they were totally incapable of varying it, the only variation being total collapse. 

[kirku 1,334]

10 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

We were looking for the winner but unfortunately failed to quite create the chances  - partly as they were defending in numbers, so it’s something to work on.  The fact that they were far happier with the point at the end of the game ought to tell you something.  Your point is strange.  

Yes, it suggests that we played poorly, because the team in 3rd were happy with a draw at home.

They expected a sterner test from us, and found themselves facing one shot on target.

"Your point is strange"

Edited October 4, 2022 by kirku

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Yes, it suggests that we played poorly, because the team in 3rd were happy with a draw at home.

They expected a sterner test from us, and found themselves facing one shot on target.

"Your point is strange"

That's a weird take on it. They were totally psyched up for the game, threw the kitchen sink at us and were happy with a point after we hadn't played that well. 

[RugbyCanary 94]

Couple things I saw from tonight.....to slow in the first half through the lines. Snappy passing is where we are strong. Ramsey runs round a lot! We looked better (more structured with the players on the field) when Mr USA was up front. 

Point got from a tough away game. 

Joint top, let's see next...

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's a weird take on it. They were totally psyched up for the game, threw the kitchen sink at us and were happy with a point after we hadn't played that well. 

I was trying to work that one out - rather an odd take.

Reading were extremely physical - the sort of side we’ve struggled against since I first started going to games 40-odd years ago. It wasn’t a classic, there were 4 shots on target the entire game, but we got a half decent draw. It takes two to tango.  It’s strange that some only ever see our performance and think the result is purely down to us and how we play. 

[kirku 1,334]

13 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't think we're going for any one attacking game plan. I think he's varying it according to who we're playing and we are getting goals more and more reliably. The introduction of a set piece coach is clearly working out as well. 

I'm afraid this doesn't sound like a recipe for success. That none of us can identify what we're trying to do is really quite concerning, especially after a year of Smith being in charge. Coaching players into repeatable attacking patterns and combinations is one of the main tenants of football.

We all know that Pukki thrives on through balls, who is going to provide them if the plan changes every week or we set up in this 4-3-3 that has repetitively failed to provide anything close to what he needs?

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

Just now, kirku said:

I'm afraid this doesn't sound like a recipe for success. That none of us can identify what we're trying to do is really quite concerning, especially after a year of Smith being in charge. Coaching players into repeatable attacking patterns and combinations is one of the main tenants of football.

We all know that Pukki thrives on through balls, who is going to provide them if the plan changes every week or we set up in this 4-3-3 that has repetitively failed to provide anything close to what he needs?

Who says we can’t?  

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

I'm afraid this doesn't sound like a recipe for success. That none of us can identify what we're trying to do is really quite concerning, especially after a year of Smith being in charge. Coaching players into repeatable attacking patterns and combinations is one of the main tenants of football.

We all know that Pukki thrives on through balls, who is going to provide them if the plan changes every week or we set up in this 4-3-3 that has repetitively failed to provide anything close to what he needs?

Really? You obviously weren't around for Paul Lambert's tenure; he varied the approach all of the time. 

We're racking up the points and we have Pukki for another 7 months max; people need to start thinking beyond Pukki. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,334]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's a weird take on it. They were totally psyched up for the game, threw the kitchen sink at us and were happy with a point after we hadn't played that well. 

"Look how ecstatic they were that they didn't lose at home" 

Reading expected more from us. Many of our fans expected more from us.

I'm not sure how that is a "weird take" but apparently we're in agreement that we didn't play well, again. It's another in a long line of pedestrian performances under Smith this year.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Just now, kirku said:

"Look how ecstatic they were that they didn't lose at home" 

Reading expected more from us. Many of our fans expected more from us.

I'm not sure how that is a "weird take" but apparently we're in agreement that we didn't play well, again. It's another in a long line of pedestrian performances under Smith this year.

Well, no it isn't. As I pointed out, we're been very productive this season. We're tied on 1st in the league on points, in second on goal difference. We are actually doing better offensively this season in that we have other people than just Pukki scoring, which is a far healthier state of affairs, and teams around us are pleased to get a point when they play us at home. We're doing well, even though there's plenty of room for improvement and refinement over the remaining 7 months of the season. 

[kirku 1,334]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Really? You obviously weren't around for Paul Lambert's tenure; he varied the approach all of the time. 

We're racking up the points and we have Pukki for another 7 months max; people need to start thinking beyond Pukki. 

I certainly was, but also recognise that football has changed immeasurably in the last decade.

I would also be fairly sure we could see commonalities to approach in all of his teams. I don't remember Holt being asked to play off the shoulder of the last defender one week only to be told to be a target man the next, for example.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Just now, kirku said:

I certainly was, but also recognise that football has changed immeasurably in the last decade.

I would also be fairly sure we could see commonalities to approach in all of his teams. I don't remember Holt being asked to play off the shoulder of the last defender one week only to be told to be a target man the next, for example.

Evidently there's more than one way to skin a cat, as evidenced by the fact that we're 2nd in the table only on goal difference. 

At the end of the day, Farke's approach was unable to establish us in the Premier League. This is different and getting results, so keep reading. 

[Canaries north 151]

52 minutes ago, Ian said:

Very good point re: Buendia. I may be misremembering but I seem to recall we were less than sparkling under Farke when he wasn't available.

I'm not 100% sure but I believe with Buendia we averaged over 2 points per game and without just under 1. Also before anyone starts saying I'm living in the past and let it go, all I am saying is it's a lot easier to play attractive football with a player like Buendia and we were lucky to have him while we did. I don't think there has been a player who has shone as bright in any other championship team for ages. Grealish went for £100 million and looked good in the championship but let's be honest Buendia looked better. 

[kirku 1,334]

8 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well, no it isn't. As I pointed out, we're been very productive this season. We're tied on 1st in the league on points, in second on goal difference. We are actually doing better offensively this season in that we have other people than just Pukki scoring, which is a far healthier state of affairs, and teams around us are pleased to get a point when they play us at home. We're doing well, even though there's plenty of room for improvement and refinement over the remaining 7 months of the season. 

We must have very different definitions of "very productive" then.

We've won by 2+ goals twice in 12 games. With our "flagship" 3-0 win against a Coventry in disarray and bottom of the table. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by kirku

[kirku 1,334]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Evidently there's more than one way to skin a cat, as evidenced by the fact that we're 2nd in the table only on goal difference. 

At the end of the day, Farke's approach was unable to establish us in the Premier League. This is different and getting results, so keep reading. 

I hope you're right, but I'm not holding my breath

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

53 minutes ago, kirku said:

How long do you think this should take? Smith's been in charge for about a year now.

There are many posters on here, myself very much included, who are asking people what Smith's plan is. Perhaps you've identified something we've missed.

If fluency takes time, it should be a broadly linear progression, so what is that?

It took Farke well over a year to get his style working, and it definitely wasn't a linear progression. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,334]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It took Farke well over a year to get his style working, and it definitely wasn't a linear progression. 

If something takes time it should be broadly linear, otherwise cumulative experience would be irrelevant.

We could all see what Farke was striving to do - and on an absolute shoestring - so he was afforded much more time by most fans. Perhaps that's part of the reason why so many haven't taken to "Smithball"?

On our other point, I've just realised we've only beaten 1 team all season who are in the top half of the table - Sunderland. A game that all objective observers thought we didn't deserve to win.

Food for thought..

Edited October 4, 2022 by kirku

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Just now, kirku said:

If something takes time it should be broadly linear, otherwise cumulative experience would be irrelevant.

On our other point, I've just realised we've only beaten 1 team all season who are in the top half of the table - Sunderland. A game that all objective observers thought we didn't deserve to win.

Food for thought..

The gap btween the top half of the table and the bottom half of the table is a pretty small number of points; losing to us is a part of the reason those teams are in the bottom half of the table... and why we're at the top. 

Seriously, we're in the automatic promotion slots on a 9 game unbeaten run. Do you think you might possibly be nitpicking a bit?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,764]

I think we've maybe only played well in about half our games this season...and even then seldom for the whole game

I just want us to start playing well because if we do we will surely claim a top 2 place in this poor league

...or am I hoping for something , after a dozen games that isn't going to happen and what we're seeing IS us playing at our level/capacity??