Safe standing given the go-ahead

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

Safe standing areas can be introduced in Premier League & Championship from the start of the 2022-23 season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62029516

So, Barclay Lower and the Snakepit to be converted this season?

Edited July 4, 2022 by Pyro Pete

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

10 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Safe standing areas can be introduced in Premier League & Championship from the start of the 2022-23 season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62029516

So, Barclay Lower and the Snakepit to be converted this season?

Unlike the versions abroad this scheme does not increase the attendance figures so there isn't any financial gain for the club.

This season is probably too soon, could happen when the break for the World Cup takes place.

[Google Bot 3,929]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

Unlike the versions abroad this scheme does not increase the attendance figures so there isn't any financial gain for the club.

Webber was disappointed with how tame our support was last season though, I think he's a big believer in establishing a healthy atmosphere at the ground.  Remember it was one of the first things he mentioned when joining.

[canarydan23 4,761]

7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Unlike the versions abroad this scheme does not increase the attendance figures so there isn't any financial gain for the club.

This season is probably too soon, could happen when the break for the World Cup takes place.

The recent fan survey covered this topic so it's definitely on the club's radar. Whether it will be dependent on the answers or the whims of the board is anyone's guess.

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

14 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

The recent fan survey covered this topic so it's definitely on the club's radar. Whether it will be dependent on the answers or the whims of the board is anyone's guess.

The club are definitely interested.

Can we change the lower Barclay between now and Aug. 6th?

What about people with a season ticket who don't want to stand? 

[canarydan23 4,761]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

Can we change the lower Barclay between now and Aug. 6th?

Not a chance.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

45 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

Safe standing areas can be introduced in Premier League & Championship from the start of the 2022-23 season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62029516

So, Barclay Lower and the Snakepit to be converted this season?

We would also have to convert a proportionate amount of the away section, so they'd need to convert some of the South Stand too. As season tickets have already been sold for this season, it'd probably be too much of a logistical nightmare to do it for this season. My guess would be implementation for the start of the 2023/4 season.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Feedthewolf

[shefcanary 2,950]

This won't happen for logistical reasons until after the new City Stand has been completed! 😉 

[dylanisabaddog 6,133]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

We would also have to convert a proportionate amount of the away section, so they'd need to convert some of the South Stand too. As season tickets have already been sold for this season, it'd probably be too much of a logistical nightmare to do it for this season. My guess would be implementation for the start of the 2023/4 season.

It definitely won't be this season. I'm sure the club will contact everyone for their wishes but I would hope they will go for lower sections of the Barclay and River End. As someone else has said, unlike Europe it's on a 1 for 1 basis so it could end up costing us money. Typical of this country that we go against evidence from Europe. 

Someone else has said we have to go like for like with visiting fans. Is that a fact or a guess? 

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

It definitely won't be this season. I'm sure the club will contact everyone for their wishes but I would hope they will go for lower sections of the Barclay and River End. As someone else has said, unlike Europe it's on a 1 for 1 basis so it could end up costing us money. Typical of this country that we go against evidence from Europe. 

Someone else has said we have to go like for like with visiting fans. Is that a fact or a guess? 

Someone at the club (can't remember who) told us at one of the OSP meetings that if safe standing is offered to home fans, it must be offered to away fans too. I'm not sure what proportions/percentage, though. It would definitely be 1 for 1, as you said, so the club's revenue would not increase if it were implemented.

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I'm sure the club will contact everyone for their wishes but I would hope they will go for lower sections of the Barclay and River End.

They already have contacted us. Didn't you complete the survey they sent out to everyone?

[dylanisabaddog 6,133]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Someone at the club (can't remember who) told us at one of the OSP meetings that if safe standing is offered to home fans, it must be offered to away fans too. I'm not sure what proportions/percentage, though. It would definitely be 1 for 1, as you said, so the club's revenue would not increase if it were implemented.

If I remember rightly, the initial capital expenditure pays for itself in 10 years as the railings require less maintenance than seats. 

The away fans is a problem. I assume they'd put standing at the back rather than the front but they would have to go a long way across the South Stand. 

As for finance, I think the discount will have to be minimal if its 1;1

[dylanisabaddog 6,133]

3 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

They already have contacted us. Didn't you complete the survey they sent out to everyone?

No. They send me so much rubbish that I don't even open them. That's the problem with overuse of emails. 

[Pyro Pete 2,353]

1 minute ago, dylanisabaddog said:

No. They send me so much rubbish that I don't even open them. That's the problem with overuse of emails. 

There was a thread on it here too, with a link to the survey website.

Anyway, as mentioned earlier, from the survey it looks like the club have been planning for it.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

If I remember rightly, the initial capital expenditure pays for itself in 10 years as the railings require less maintenance than seats. 

The away fans is a problem. I assume they'd put standing at the back rather than the front but they would have to go a long way across the South Stand. 

As for finance, I think the discount will have to be minimal if its 1;1

These are all considerations. It'd definitely make more sense to put the standing at the back of the South Stand. Regarding discounts, does anyone know if the trial clubs from last season charged less for standing than for seating? You'd think that fans who want to stand would be happy to pay the same price for the privilege, as they'll enjoy their matchday experience more?

Edited July 4, 2022 by Feedthewolf

[The Raptor 1,573]

Surely it will have to be next season now. They can't change something so significant once people have bought it can they? Particularly those that want to more as there will only be rubbish seats left. And probably in more expensive areas of the ground.

'You'd think that fans who want to stand would be happy to pay the same price for the privilege, as they'll enjoy their matchday experience more'

 Why would they? Particularly if they already stand all game! If you still get a designated space I'm still stuck behind the same annoying fools!

 

As for the initial expenditure. Sponsorship? Will my Rail/seat now be sponsored by some random phone, betting or coffee company!?

[Google Bot 3,929]

38 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

If you still get a designated space I'm still stuck behind the same annoying fools!

That's my issue with safe standing.  You're still stuck to that position, going to the footy's great if you can group together with like minded fans, that's where atmosphere is born.  Likewise, if you want to move out of the way of people that are over rowdy it used to be possible.

I don't really get what safe standing brings, cause you could stand up with seats anyway.  State of football is ridiculous.  Hillsborough was caused with the prison like fencing at the front, overflow of supporters and a refusal to open those gates at the front, and policing cockup.

I really don't get what's so "Safe" about having a rail and seats that can wrap you up and fall over if someone did come over from the back.  I'm willing to bet more people trip and hit their heads on all that hardware around, than in the days where you all just held each other up.

moan... moan.. moan.. etc.  🙂

[Greavsy 2,645]

19 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

That's my issue with safe standing.  You're still stuck to that position, going to the footy's great if you can group together with like minded fans, that's where atmosphere is born.  Likewise, if you want to move out of the way of people that are over rowdy it used to be possible.

I don't really get what safe standing brings, cause you could stand up with seats anyway.  State of football is ridiculous.  Hillsborough was caused with the prison like fencing at the front, overflow of supporters and a refusal to open those gates at the front, and policing cockup.

I really don't get what's so "Safe" about having a rail and seats that can wrap you up and fall over if someone did come over from the back.  I'm willing to bet more people trip and hit their heads on all that hardware around, than in the days where you all just held each other up.

moan... moan.. moan.. etc.  🙂

You do get how it's easier to manage / allocate a "safe seat" space under the new system, and control numbers, rather than just a terrace that can hold a set figure, which is harder to monitor, especially with free movement between terracing areas. 

[Google Bot 3,929]

Just now, Greavsy said:

You do get how it's easier to manage / allocate a "safe seat" space under the new system, and control numbers, rather than just a terrace that can hold a set figure, which is harder to monitor, especially with free movement between terracing areas.

Yeah of course I get it, was just having a moan as I would prefer to be free to move around within that section - i.e. if they were 3 rows deep and you could move within that row.

Maybe it's something for the future, or maybe people riot in safe standing, or routinely gain access to the pitch and the whole thing gets rolled back - who knows.

[Greavsy 2,645]

4 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Yeah of course I get it, was just having a moan as I would prefer to be free to move around within that section - i.e. if they were 3 rows deep and you could move within that row.

Maybe it's something for the future, or maybe people riot in safe standing, or routinely gain access to the pitch and the whole thing gets rolled back - who knows.

Some people are never happy.

What do we want? Safe standing........oh not that safe standing. 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,708]

Safe standing areas doesn't just mean taking the seats out. It's much more complicated than that.

[Greavsy 2,645]

5 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

Safe standing areas doesn't just mean taking the seats out. It's much more complicated than that.

If only it was that simple

[A Load of Squit 6,260]

3 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Someone at the club (can't remember who) told us at one of the OSP meetings that if safe standing is offered to home fans, it must be offered to away fans too. I'm not sure what proportions/percentage, though. It would definitely be 1 for 1, as you said, so the club's revenue would not increase if it were implemented.

That was the rules for the recent trials, there's nothing to say that this has changed.

[shefcanary 2,950]

4 hours ago, shefcanary said:

This won't happen for logistical reasons until after the new City Stand has been completed! 😉 

The Pink'Un quotes it is in "long term" planning.  Trust me guys it will be a feature of the City Stand redevelopment. Parcelled up in the financing of that project will reduce the cost of installation, which is what is most attractive to the club.

[KiwiScot 1,684]

2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

...I would prefer to be free to move around within that section - i.e. if they were 3 rows deep and you could move within that row.

Anyone making the Celtic game will be able to see their safe standing section in action should it be open and attended. I saw Leicester play there and the people there seemed to be having fun. Single rows, but people within the row all moving about it and linking arms and moving side to side,jumping up etc. Tbh it made that section of the ground look empty with people grouping together.

[shefcanary 2,950]

4 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Anyone making the Celtic game will be able to see their safe standing section in action should it be open and attended. I saw Leicester play there and the people there seemed to be having fun. Single rows, but people within the row all moving about it and linking arms and moving side to side,jumping up etc. Tbh it made that section of the ground look empty with people grouping together.

But in your view, did it improve the atmosphere, or did the "emptiness" dissipate the impact?  If the latter, given the govt. will never go less than 1 for 1, strikes me the only benefit will be for those who find sitting for long periods tiresome.

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

6 hours ago, shefcanary said:

This won't happen for logistical reasons until after the new City Stand has been completed! 😉 

Half the fans on here will never see it coming to fruition then. 

[Google Bot 3,929]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

strikes me the only benefit will be for those who find sitting for long periods tiresome

Standing in that position with space around you is going to get boring after the initial excitement has worn off (i.e. few months in).  You're just going to get people leaning on the bars half asleep, and probably end up popping their seat out to sit down like they used to. 

Most of us only stand cause we think it's a hard and rebellious thing to do! 🙂

This is why I don't see the point of it really - unless it leads to further changes (Which I highly doubt). 

For me the benefit of standing is getting more people in and offering cheaper tickets, and the atmosphere intensifies from being in a packed area where you're forced to move with the others as unit due to being shoulder to shoulder.

The safety aspect came in when they removed the huge fences around fans, better membership/ticketing systems.  I just can't see how terracing in the snakepit is any more dangerous than the safe standing really.

As an official I can see the benefits from being able to control the masses and not let people get too carried away which brings it's own risk.. But I'm a fan at the end of the day, and so priority on getting the best match experience as possible.

My fear is how we're entering the world of franchise football whereby the top clubs don't want season ticket holders in their grounds, they want tourists who are spending a fortune for that sit, fortune in the club shop and the rails are like a little museum piece saying "Hey, feel what it was like to stand on the terraces at Anfield, Old Trafford" etc. 

And all that is just corporate **** really.  Just seems more cost when clubs should be looking at offering better value sections in grounds and a good way of a club our size increasing capacity.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Google Bot

[KiwiScot 1,684]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

But in your view, did it improve the atmosphere, or did the "emptiness" dissipate the impact?  If the latter, given the govt. will never go less than 1 for 1, strikes me the only benefit will be for those who find sitting for long periods tiresome.

It was a pre-season friendly and I can't remember how full the section was(i.e. more room to move and gaps more evident), but the fans inside that area were really making a good atmosphere of it and having a load of fun. I thought at the time if half the ground or all of it was like this it would look empty and a bit ****,  I don't believe that so much now so I'd say it would improve the atmosphere. It is hard to know though from watching 1 game.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by KiwiScot

[essex canary 622]

15 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

These are all considerations. It'd definitely make more sense to put the standing at the back of the South Stand. Regarding discounts, does anyone know if the trial clubs from last season charged less for standing than for seating? You'd think that fans who want to stand would be happy to pay the same price for the privilege, as they'll enjoy their matchday experience more?

Previous generations enjoyed both better atmosphere and cheaper prices. 

Some of the economic problems of the 1970"s are now being repeated whilst in many respects Norfolk remains a low wage area. The Club will probably being paying top-up wages for players playing for other Clubs. 

Many other Clubs still have some cheaper seating options available though ours were terminated during McNally's tenure.

Perhaps we need another Smith on board - Citizen Smith.