Mr Smith's Record

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I think the problem here has a radically different underlying cause even if the symptoms look the same. He's basically had a go at trying, against the odds, to keep us up with Farke's old team. Granted, it was never the likeliest of undertakings, but we did have a couple of games (the turnaround against Southampton, or indeed the wins against Everton and Watford, or even the draw when under the cosh against an in-form Palace side) that could have made some think that a bit more incremental improvement could do the job, but said improvement did not last and the resulting losses in confidence have sent the team backwards again.

I do think he's been hit quite badly with Idah and Omobamidele missing, as Idah was looking like he was getting the idea, and Omobamidele looked like he had the idea. At least then with Idah in good form the ball was sticking up top for far longer, allowing defence and midfield to reorganise / get into the game in attack. When that's not around, we're far more vulnerable in the middle of the park, hence the defensive midfield issues we have on a regular basis.

I agree that you could see what Farke was trying to do early on in his reign, but he also had a whole pre-season to work on it to start with as he came at the start of July. Smith's basically come in not too long before the mid-season window, and no doubt accepted the job on the premise that no-one new was coming in.

Oh, I agree Omobamidele was looking decent. In fact, he looked set to cement his place in the team after good performances against Leeds and Brentford. But then a new man came in and benched him and didn't use him for his first three games and only bought him into the lineup against Spurs to try a three centre-back defence, not above Hanley or Gibson.

It's a bit kind to Smith to say that he was desperately unlucky not to have an injured player that he only picked 20% of the time when he was available to him, despite promising signs prior to Smith's appointment.

And the same people making these excuses for largely atrocious performances under Smith don't seem to be so generous when it comes to Farke not getting anything like a meaningful pre-season under his belt. Is it any surprise that the 5 points he did manage came in his last 5 games? If that doesn't suggest a corner may have been turned I don't know what does.

I've said this before, whether sacking Farke was right I don't know. I certainly think it was wrong but can understand those that disagree. However, appointing Smith as his replacement was absolutely incorrect and I can't understand anyone who disagrees with that.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,976]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Oh, I agree Omobamidele was looking decent. In fact, he looked set to cement his place in the team after good performances against Leeds and Brentford. But then a new man came in and benched him and didn't use him for his first three games and only bought him into the lineup against Spurs to try a three centre-back defence, not above Hanley or Gibson.

It's a bit kind to Smith to say that he was desperately unlucky not to have an injured player that he only picked 20% of the time when he was available to him, despite promising signs prior to Smith's appointment.

And the same people making these excuses for largely atrocious performances under Smith don't seem to be so generous when it comes to Farke not getting anything like a meaningful pre-season under his belt. Is it any surprise that the 5 points he did manage came in his last 5 games? If that doesn't suggest a corner may have been turned I don't know what does.

I've said this before, whether sacking Farke was right I don't know. I certainly think it was wrong but can understand those that disagree. However, appointing Smith as his replacement was absolutely incorrect and I can't understand anyone who disagrees with that.

 

I agree, I was a Farke-in poster too. However, my stance will always be this: I will happily grant a new manager a couple of windows to get in some players he wants just to have a squad somewhat in his image. Smith has not had that luxury let, so as much as I don't think he was the right guy to bring in, I will let him have time. We gave Farke time, and were rewarded with some of the best football I can ever remember from Norwich City teams.

As for your response presumably re. Idah (the 20% pick), I would say his form was the key. He'd looked a bit lost early on in the season, but against West Ham, it really had looked like something had clicked. It was as if he had realised he had to be more aggressive and look to physically impose himself. I think I wrote somewhere that "Idah looks to me like one of those players who always had a physical advantage as a junior player", and when those were somewhat neutralised in the first team, he looked lost as he'd got used to just being inherently big and strong relative to most. We were looking more functional before his injury. 

Otherwise, at least from my perspective, it almost looks like hoping they fail just to say "I knew it". I don't care for letting personal disdain for an appointment overrule a notion of letting them have a fair crack of the whip.

Edited May 9, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[canarydan23 4,060]

6 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I agree, I was a Farke-in poster too. However, my stance will always be this: I will happily grant a new manager a couple of windows to get in some players he wants just to have a squad somewhat in his image. Smith has not had that luxury let, so as much as I don't think he was the right guy to bring in, I will let him have time. We gave Farke time, and were rewarded with some of the best football I can ever remember from Norwich City teams.

As for your response presumably re. Idah (the 20% pick), I would say his form was the key. He'd looked a bit lost early on in the season, but against West Ham, it really had looked like something had clicked. It was as if he had realised he had to be more aggressive and look to physically impose himself. I think I wrote somewhere that "Idah looks to me like one of those players who always had a physical advantage as a junior player", and when those were somewhat neutralised in the first team, he looked lost as he'd got used to just being inherently big and strong relative to most. We were looking more functional before his injury. 

Otherwise, at least from my perspective, it almost looks like hoping they fail just to say "I knew it". I don't care for letting personal disdain for an appointment overrule a notion of letting them have a fair crack of the whip.

I was talking about Omobamidele. Farke picked him for Leeds and Brentford and he looked like our best centre back. Smith then dropped him for the next four games, so it's a bit much to say the Omobamidele injury was major bad luck for Smith, as he would probably have had his feet up anyway.

Edited May 9, 2022 by canarydan23

[TheGunnShow 5,976]

Just now, canarydan23 said:

I was talking about Omobamidele. Farke picked him for Leeds and Brentford and he looked like our best centre back. Smith then dropped him for the next four games.

LOL, fair enough, we went past each other there!

[TheBaldOne66 693]

6 hours ago, Captain Holt said:

26 points from 35 games in the Premier League this season. 

Would any other club still be employing him with that record?

The '4 or 5 names ready to go should Daniel leave' was abandoned for a man who needed faulty technology to keep Villa up having spent hundreds of millions of pounds with one of England's best players in the side.

Tactically woeful, horrendous substitutions, stubborn with team selection when it clearly doesn't work (Billy and Kenny anyone?), no style, substance or signs of changing anything. His attitude to the fans also stinks - he's the worst type of arrogant; someone who pretends not to be. 

Great mug though.

Well lots on this forum want a coach back with a far worse record than that ffs! 

[AJ 1,224]

1 minute ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Well lots on this forum want a coach back with a far worse record than that ffs! 

This is because Farke created a special relationship with the fans, I cannot see Smith doing that whatsoever. 

[TheBaldOne66 693]

5 minutes ago, AJ said:

This is because Farke created a special relationship with the fans, I cannot see Smith doing that whatsoever. 

Special relationships don’t keep you in the Premier League though do they?

[Google Bot 3,298]

7 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

it's a bit much to say the Omobamidele injury was major bad luck for Smith, as he would probably have had his feet up anyway.

It's maybe not as simple as that, though?  I think creating competition for places is really important, ideally Smith will be looking at having those on the bench breathing down the neck of others.

I don't think Smith's plan was to be playing Byram at CB at this point of the season.  And, I'd imagine he went with Gibson and Hanley when he took over as they are the most mature CB pairing and therefore made the position(s) theirs to lose.

I'd say from a team morale point of view you can start with more experienced players as the default and then expect the younger players to do the pushing, without too much upset.

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

10 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Special relationships don’t keep you in the Premier League though do they?

Neither do panic appointment Villa failures it would seem.

[canarydan23 4,060]

7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

It's maybe not as simple as that, though?  I think creating competition for places is really important, ideally Smith will be looking at having those on the bench breathing down the neck of others.

I don't think Smith's plan was to be playing Byram at CB at this point of the season.  And, I'd imagine he went with Gibson and Hanley when he took over as they are the most mature CB pairing and therefore made the position(s) theirs to lose.

I'd say from a team morale point of view you can start with more experienced players as the default and then expect the younger players to do the pushing, without too much upset.

Normally, perhaps, but look at the context. Omobamidele was according to several sources either our best, or one of our best performers (and certainly our best defender) in both the Leeds and Brentford matches. Yet he was dropped for Smith's first game. The first bizarre decision in a brief Norwich career littered with them.

[TheBaldOne66 693]

2 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Neither do panic appointment Villa failures it would seem.

I’m not saying it does am I? 
 

I do think people should get off Dean Smith’s back a little though, as he’s not a miracle worker 

[Indy 3,307]

29 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Well lots on this forum want a coach back with a far worse record than that ffs! 

Indeed you can argue that both aren’t very good at this level! Smith’s spent over 100 million with Villa and should have been relegated two seasons ago! Cheating VAR and questionable refereeing kept the up! He’s not really improved the players and we look far worse now!

But if you’re looking for a manager with very good championship record you can’t do much better than Farke! Far better record than Smith! And better with fans.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Indy

[repman 635]

It's clear that this season has seen an element of short-termism in the running of the club, as opposed to what felt like a clear long-term view in previous seasons. From what we've heard regarding the summer's recruitment, it sounds like things started to unravel then and instead of cutting our losses we have doubled down in many ways. The sacking of Farke was something I agreed with, despite the fact we had just won a game, I couldn't see any outcome other than relegation. Webber clearly took the same view, but whereas a few years ago he may have kept Farke and accepted the relegation, he rolled the dice and tried something different. This then brings you onto the Smith appointment, who I doubt featured on any list of potential replacements considering he was still in a job when we sacked Farke. It seems to me we need to go back to square one and start all over again and I'm not convinced Smith is the man for that, but with Webber seemingly on the outs too there is a power vacuum for leadership on the football side and I'm not sure the club is going to throw its weight behind Neil Adams in the sporting director role.

[AJ 1,224]

7 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

I’m not saying it does am I? 
 

I do think people should get off Dean Smith’s back a little though, as he’s not a miracle worker 

Unfortunately people, myself included, were/are expected the replacement of Farke to be a step forwards because of the incredible work he did to get us to that point. I'm not denying his PL record was absolutely pants, that's plain for all to see but Smith is the biggest sideways step they could possibly have chosen. 

[TheBaldOne66 693]

As I’ve said on another thread, if Farke is so good why is he still unemployed since leaving Krasnodar? 

[Indy 3,307]

1 minute ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

As I’ve said on another thread, if Farke is so good why is he still unemployed since leaving Krasnodar? 

I’m sure it won’t be long, but I ask you who would you want in the championship next season, Farke or Smith? Given the flat atmosphere, no improvement and history of both managers. Me I’d go all out for Robins.

[Google Bot 3,298]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Yet he was dropped for Smith's first game. The first bizarre decision in a brief Norwich career littered with them.

He'd only started in 2 games before Brentford win though, and only 19 years of age.

Coming in to the job Smith will be looking at going for that maturity and perceived pedigree as a building block.  It's an easier, more natural decision, as youth will always look to be the one's pushing older players.  So I get that.

And it was warranted, as In those opening games we picked up 5 points in 3, Andy was then played in the Spurs match and we lost by 3.  Sadly, then injured throughout rest of the month, and became long term.

I think Smith was just being methodical in selection, not saying "This is my best squad".  Maybe I'm way off point here, but I believe Andy would've been a starter had he not got injured. 

[TheBaldOne66 693]

Don’t know tbh, problems at the club are far bigger than who the manager is 

[Indy 3,307]

1 minute ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Don’t know tbh, problems at the club are far bigger than who the manager is 

Indeed it is….

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

16 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

I’m not saying it does am I? 
 

I do think people should get off Dean Smith’s back a little though, as he’s not a miracle worker 

Clearly.... that's why Villa got shot of him.
Not sure if it was this thread or another but its rightly said, Smith does not fit our club and we do not fit Smith.
Sooner we send him off and get the next phase right the better. 

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, spencer 1970 said:

I think a lot of us feared it wasn't going to be a good fit and although we wanted him to suceceed, it was likely to come true. 

Yet again, I'll stand by my choice of Knutsen.  

Delusional 

[hertfordyellow 460]

36 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Neither do panic appointment Villa failures it would seem.

I don't think Villa view him as a failure. Do we see Farke as a failure?

[Indy 3,307]

18 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

I don't think Villa view him as a failure. Do we see Farke as a failure?

Some fans don’t but the club must as they see he failed to take them where Gerrard is taking them! We got rid of a premiership struggling team and replaced him with another manager of a struggling premiership team, one who had spent three times the funds of Farke. I didn’t get the logic then and I don’t now!

Edited May 9, 2022 by Indy

[Ken Hairy 3,774]

2 hours ago, hertfordyellow said:

This is just wrong. There is a transfer committee in which the manager is one of that committee. Webber had to take a more hands on role because the head of recruitment was placed on gardening leave because he had taken a role at another club. This whole 'Webber signs who he wants' mantra isn't based on reality. In the ideal world, he wouldn't have had to step in and be the focal point for this summer's recruitment.

When people say it isn't Smith's team, its because he hasn't had a pre-season with them. He came in to fire fight and try and pull off a miracle. It seems strange to me and most that he isn't more frustrated at his players but then he could be in private. He also hooked two at half time which is a public show frustration.

Either way, it wasn't Farke's team as has been reported recently as he wanted 3 key signings and it won't be Smith's team, no matter who we sign. 

Smith can also have all the pre seasons in the world but do we really have belief in his ability? 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Ken Hairy

[hertfordyellow 460]

29 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Either way, it wasn't Farke's team as has been reported recently as he wanted 3 key signings and it won't be Smith's team, no matter who we sign. 

Smith can also have all the pre seasons in the world but do we really have belief in his ability? 

It is more his team than Smith's.

You might not have faith in his ability but I'm willing to be a bit more patient. Farke had a pretty tough first season.

[Samwam27 531]

Any manager interviewing for a job is going to say the right, positive things to impress. He'd hardly have said to Webber, and then the press soon afterwards, "I think this club is in dire straights, and summer transfers look awful, and this team stands no chance of staying up.  I think most people who said that would not get the job.

I'm guessing SMith also took on the role knowing there would be no further funds in Jan, and that he hoped he could get more out oif the players.

To be fair to Smith, we've been inundated by injuries, our squad is threadbare, and we have little options to replace those playing (other than bring in the youngsters, who at least shown passion) I also think that, as much as Smith gets the team ready, and puts out the starting 11, even he must be infuriated by the individual errors (Byrams handball & penalty, Gibsons blunders in several games, Williams two slips, Kruls recent mistakes) which have plagued us almost every game. We literally gift goals without too much effort from the other team. He can't stop our players doing that on the pitch, no matter how he instructs them in the dressing room

He's a different character to Farke so we can't assume he'll come out and try and placate the fans. I suspect he knew this would be a nightmare attempt to try and stay up, and being Norwich we outlined he'd be given a long run to try to turn things round.

This summer is crucial for both whether Smith gets a say in who he wants, whether the club back him & we get them in, and ultimately whether "his" team through pre-season and the start make an impact. That's when we'll see the formation and style of play he wants to impress. It's almost impossible to do that with these players, and injuries, and confidence look shot        

[ged in the onion bag 856]

5 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Not his team, he's been thrown onto the titianic with a mop and been told to rescue it. Judge him after next season.

Can you explain this ‘not his team’ thing in the context of our squad?   When does it become his team?    Are you expecting a full clearout because that won’t be happening, especially if Deano has anything to do with it….    He’s already said they are good enough players and the focus is on promotion.   …. and we don’t spend much money!  His team next season will either have a couple of new signings or youth in it.    How many players do you think it will take for it to be ‘his team’.    
 

From what he’s said he’s hell bent on another promotion, but even Guardiola isn’t creating a competitive EPL team from this position in just 12 months.   

[Creative Midfielder 1,999]

4 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

As I’ve said on another thread, if Farke is so good why is he still unemployed since leaving Krasnodar? 

It was a pretty stupid question on that thread and doesn't get any less stupid with repetition.

[Creative Midfielder 1,999]

4 hours ago, Google Bot said:

I think Smith was just being methodical in selection, not saying "This is my best squad".  Maybe I'm way off point here, but I believe Andy would've been a starter had he not got injured. 

I don't think he was being very methodical in picking a quite clearly unfit and out of form Cantwell...........