Striving to make sense of the Ukraine war

[littleyellowbirdie 2,613]

On 04/07/2023 at 16:10, Yellow Fever said:

Somebody in politics needs to state this.

Can we please hold Israel to the same standards we hold the Russian's to in occupying foreign lands.

Let's not be hypocrites.

 

We need to make the two state solution happen and frankly largely remove the 'settlers' from their smash and grab if we are to ever have a just peace.

The Arab-Israeli crisis stems from the Palestinian refusal to accept the UN partition of mandatory Palestine in the first place and the wider Arab resolve to annihilate Israel in its entirety. Given that Ukraine has never been aggressive militarily to Russia, but Palestine and the wider Arab world did try to obliterate the newly-formed Israel what the Russians are trying to do to Ukraine, there's no comparison.

The two-state solution has always been the right aspiration that everybody should get behind, but nobody has done more to undermine its achievement than the Palestinians themselves.

Edited October 5, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Israel invaded Palestine territories via the Nahkba Hollocaust, it is also refusing to take sides when many western Nazis want to usurp Russia. Here is a critic of the 'Chatham house rules' the best ever funded think tank which supports war but not peace, its a war mongers think tank that gets support from most rich international companies and organisation, whilst it is not accountable to any of the suffering these cause.

For those able to think for themselves, rather than having caniving MSM  lies about this pitiful war, and constant ignorance of our very own mistakes and brutalities forced down our throats, this is a good start to read up what is being suggested and done by this unelected Chatham House cabal of international hegemonic monsters.

Warning, this report does not make for easy reading.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/10/death-wish-2023/comment-page-1/#comments

[king canary 7,703]

3 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Warning, this report does not make for easy reading.

Luckily absolutely nobody on here is clicking on the 8,000th Craig Murray link you've provided then.

[TheGunnShow 6,089]

On 12/09/2023 at 11:29, TheGunnShow said:

See Serbia's view of Kosovo for details.

Meanwhile...

Kosovo: Why have tensions flared up with Serbia and why are British troops being sent there? | World News | Sky News

Watch the Serbian powers-that-be try the exact same blueprint Putin laid down to try and subjugate the Kosovans.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Luckily absolutely nobody on here is clicking on the 8,000th Craig Murray link you've provided then.

what does that say about the hypernormalisation of minds. Not to worry, we will get what we deserve, very much nothing!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation

[cambridgeshire canary 6,867]

21 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Israel invaded Palestine territories via the Nahkba Hollocaust, it is also refusing to take sides when many western Nazis want to usurp Russia. Here is a critic of the 'Chatham house rules' the best ever funded think tank which supports war but not peace, its a war mongers think tank that gets support from most rich international companies and organisation, whilst it is not accountable to any of the suffering these cause.

For those able to think for themselves, rather than having caniving MSM  lies about this pitiful war, and constant ignorance of our very own mistakes and brutalities forced down our throats, this is a good start to read up what is being suggested and done by this unelected Chatham House cabal of international hegemonic monsters.

Warning, this report does not make for easy reading.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/10/death-wish-2023/comment-page-1/#comments

Oh come everybody knows Israel was given to the Jews by god. That or they deserve it beacuase of the holocaust.

Saying anything contrary is clearly nothing but antisemitism 😉

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Oh come everybody knows Israel was given to the Jews by god. That or they deserve it beacuase of the holocaust.

Saying anything contrary is clearly nothing but antisemitism 😉

one wonders why they don't support the Nazi's in Ukraine, what do they know? what we want to ignore. Another small point about our newest NATO partners, why would Estonia Lithuania and Latvia want to annually celebrate Hitlers Waffen SS and erect memorials to them?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 06/10/2023 at 14:48, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

one wonders why they don't support the Nazi's in Ukraine, what do they know? what we want to ignore. Another small point about our newest NATO partners, why would Estonia Lithuania and Latvia want to annually celebrate Hitlers Waffen SS and erect memorials to them?

There are two memorials to the Waffen SS in the UK. One in Derby and one in Leeds. I'm surprised they are allowed to be there.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

we have the Nprwich City Hall SS worshipers flying Ukraine's flag, rather than Norwich of Norfolks flag? what next? Taiwans flag? or that of the rogue state currently carrying out a genocidal 'Endloesung' for Gaza's majority of children?

[Herman 9,857]

Western imperialism bad, very bad. 

Russian imperialism good, as the other side were looking at Putin in a funny way. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,613]

On 06/10/2023 at 15:48, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

one wonders why they don't support the Nazi's in Ukraine, what do they know? what we want to ignore. Another small point about our newest NATO partners, why would Estonia Lithuania and Latvia want to annually celebrate Hitlers Waffen SS and erect memorials to them?

Good question. For insight, we should look to those who support the Nazis in gaza who like to make a point of murdering Jews on Jewish holidays, just like Adolf Hitler liked to do.

Edited October 10, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,613]

Wonder if Russia has been stirring things up in the Middle East to distract from what a pig's ear it has made of its Ukraine efforts?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67234144

[littleyellowbirdie 2,613]

Russia making hay while all eyes are on Gaza. 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67465803

[PurpleCanary 5,601]

At least this thread about the horrors of war has not been zapped yet.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,613]

6 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

At least this thread about the horrors of war has not been zapped yet.

Hasn't been reduced to 'look at the poor ickle children bombed and kidnapped by Russia' either. Nasty Russians, blah blah blah.

In fact, a notable contrast between Ukraine/Russia and Israel/Palestine is the massive lengths people went to to protect Russians from abuse that doesn't extend to Israelis.

[BroadstairsR 2,226]

Ir doesn't seem to be the world that has forgotten this struggle, the PinkUn antagonists with right firmly on their side against unwarranted Russian aggression have been silenced it seems.

Facts. The Ukrainian Spring offensive has failed. The Russians who were supposed to have collapsed financially, militarily and morally seem to have prevailed. Talk of reclaiming the Crimea is no more.

Talk of Russian financial collapse, revolution on the home front and the removal/assassination of Putin is no more. He has the confidence to stand for another election, he has acquired manpower and armaments from somewhere. Quel surpris!

American billions are in doubt if the Republicans win their way. Europe and significant factions talk of compromise.

That compromise has even suggested that Ukraine must come to terms with losing territory, old men are now brought to arms, the country has vast areas destroyed thousands of its young men and citizens are dead. Valensky struggles to get support.

How much longer can the UK afford billions sent in that direction? Germany, ditto? France words?

Talk in Washington, Brussels and sensible corners throughout the world indicates compromise before even more corpses pile up.

Realisation that the only way to stop Putin's paranoid need for protection and expansion in order to ensure this has dissipated due to carnage and slaughter.

Putin will have won. The aim is to mitigate this victory and save further lives. It will have been the most enormous Pyrrhic victory in history in any case. The whole country is on a war footing, whole factories are now converted into munition makers. It happened before in that vastly resourced and populated country, but it comes at a price. That wonderful country has reversed two decades. My wife noticed it recently when she went on behalf of the Finnish Govt, as an interpreter. St. Pete's is not the flourishing place it had become, dollars are now in as much demand as they were three/four decades ago. People are shy of opinionating in public once again.

Many of us saw this hardly before the slaughter began. We are still alive. So many young men, sons , husbands, fathers are no more. WW1 all over again, with the restriction imposed by the age of the nuclear bomb. The armchair warriors are now silent, it seems.

Get around the table now!

Putin's Russia is far too depleted to contemplate expansion. NATO needs that time to build defences if it should re-happen after Putin's days.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[littleyellowbirdie 2,613]

3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Ir doesn't seem to be the world that has forgotten this struggle, the PinkUn antagonists with right firmly on their side against unwarranted Russian aggression have been silenced it seems.

Facts. The Ukrainian Spring offensive has failed. The Russians who were supposed to have collapsed financially, militarily and morally seem to have prevailed. Talk of reclaiming the Crimea is no more.

Talk of Russian financial collapse, revolution on the home front and the removal/assassination of Putin is no more. He has the confidence to stand for another election, he has acquired manpower and armaments from somewhere. Quel surpris!

American billions are in doubt if the Republicans win their way. Europe and significant factions talk of compromise.

That compromise has even suggested that Ukraine must come to terms with losing territory, old men are now brought to arms, the country has vast areas destroyed thousands of its young men and citizens are dead. Valensky struggles to get support.

How much longer can the UK afford billions sent in that direction? Germany, ditto? France words?

Talk in Washington, Brussels and sensible corners throughout the world indicates compromise before even more corpses pile up.

Realisation that the only way to stop Putin's paranoid need for protection and expansion in order to ensure this has dissipated due to carnage and slaughter.

Putin will have won. The aim is to mitigate this victory and save further lives. It will have been the most enormous Pyrrhic victory in history in any case. The whole country is on a war footing, whole factories are now converted into munition makers. It happened before in that vastly resourced and populated country, but it comes at a price. That wonderful country has reversed two decades. My wife noticed it recently when she went on behalf of the Finnish Govt, as an interpreter. St. Pete's is not the flourishing place it had become, dollars are now in as much demand as they were three/four decades ago. People are shy of opinionating in public once again.

Many of us saw this hardly before the slaughter began. We are still alive. So many young men, sons , husbands, fathers are no more. WW1 all over again, with the restriction imposed by the age of the nuclear bomb. The armchair warriors are now silent, it seems.

Get around the table now!

Putin's Russia is far too depleted to contemplate expansion. NATO needs that time to build defences if it should re-happen after Putin's days.

 

You're probably right. But as far as the Ukrainians are concerned, it was always their right to fight to defend their country, and it was in our interests to see Russia lose its war of aggression. Yet again, Russia will have made marginal gains as a new peace agreement akin to Minsk is agreed, then Russia will  lie, deceive, and destabilise to make further marginal gains and more people will die.

Russia's depleted for now, but it will recuperate fast once the war ceases, ready for another round. Appeasement never works in the end, but our democracies are simply too weak and people's attention spans too short not to keep losing out to ruthless dictators in the end.

He'll have learnt his lesson regarding all-out invasion, but the tactics of disinormation and  creating domestic unrest with mercenaries were perfectly effective, and the West showed it was quite happy to appease that approach.

You'd think the fact the US has had enough of spending money on weapons would be enough to put to bed the nonsense about encouraging wars to sell more weapons, but it probably won't.

If it was up to me, I'd keep giving the Ukrainians weapons.

Edited December 18, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Foxy2600 306]

The US will have to face up to Taiwan if Ukrainian falls.

Having created the democratic ‘free World’ they, as the largest economy in the World have to protect their ‘vision’.

so supporting Ukraine will bring benefits, leaving her to a Totalitarian mafia like dictatorship will doom, Taiwan, South Korea and probably 17 or 18 marginal democracies to a fate of proper Naziism.

South Africa needs to wake up

[Sheva 125]

Theres a gradual realisation from many Ukrainians, especially having come to the west that it’s not a way of life which they feel comfortable with and certainly don’t want their country to follow.

Putins Russia will make a peace with Ukraine and other surrounding countries. They together will preserve their cultures and christian faith, they won’t allow it to be eroded by forced mass immigration from Africa and the Middle East.

More than anything, alliances will be formed by religion, not politics. 
 

Everything I’ve seen and been told by influencers in politics, religion and business, within Ukraine over the last 25 years has/is coming true. 
 

We shouldn’t fear Russia, they always respected and admired us. It was the west which looked to overwhelm them and it hasn’t gone well for anyone. 
 

 

 

[horsefly 4,323]

On 18/12/2023 at 19:39, BroadstairsR said:

Ir doesn't seem to be the world that has forgotten this struggle, the PinkUn antagonists with right firmly on their side against unwarranted Russian aggression have been silenced it seems.

Facts. The Ukrainian Spring offensive has failed. The Russians who were supposed to have collapsed financially, militarily and morally seem to have prevailed. Talk of reclaiming the Crimea is no more.

Talk of Russian financial collapse, revolution on the home front and the removal/assassination of Putin is no more. He has the confidence to stand for another election, he has acquired manpower and armaments from somewhere. Quel surpris!

American billions are in doubt if the Republicans win their way. Europe and significant factions talk of compromise.

That compromise has even suggested that Ukraine must come to terms with losing territory, old men are now brought to arms, the country has vast areas destroyed thousands of its young men and citizens are dead. Valensky struggles to get support.

How much longer can the UK afford billions sent in that direction? Germany, ditto? France words?

Talk in Washington, Brussels and sensible corners throughout the world indicates compromise before even more corpses pile up.

Realisation that the only way to stop Putin's paranoid need for protection and expansion in order to ensure this has dissipated due to carnage and slaughter.

Putin will have won. The aim is to mitigate this victory and save further lives. It will have been the most enormous Pyrrhic victory in history in any case. The whole country is on a war footing, whole factories are now converted into munition makers. It happened before in that vastly resourced and populated country, but it comes at a price. That wonderful country has reversed two decades. My wife noticed it recently when she went on behalf of the Finnish Govt, as an interpreter. St. Pete's is not the flourishing place it had become, dollars are now in as much demand as they were three/four decades ago. People are shy of opinionating in public once again.

Many of us saw this hardly before the slaughter began. We are still alive. So many young men, sons , husbands, fathers are no more. WW1 all over again, with the restriction imposed by the age of the nuclear bomb. The armchair warriors are now silent, it seems.

Get around the table now!

Putin's Russia is far too depleted to contemplate expansion. NATO needs that time to build defences if it should re-happen after Putin's days.

 

Didn't you predict Ukraine's collapse within days of the Russian invasion? Think I'll take your current predictions in the same light as I did your original claims.

[horsefly 4,323]

1 hour ago, Sheva said:

We shouldn’t fear Russia, they always respected and admired us.

I guess you haven't followed much of what Putin has said or done. He doesn't admire or respect Ukraine, he thinks it's an abomination that Ukraine exists.

[TheGunnShow 6,089]

5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I guess you haven't followed much of what Putin has said or done. He doesn't admire or respect Ukraine, he thinks it's an abomination that Ukraine exists.

Was going to say, this is more about what Putin wants for Russia (and Ukraine). We're dealing with a madman here. And more than anything, wean ourselves off Russian gas (as well as Arabian oil).

[Sheva 125]

22 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Didn't you predict Ukraine's collapse within days of the Russian invasion? Think I'll take your current predictions in the same light as I did your original claims.

No

[Sheva 125]

20 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I guess you haven't followed much of what Putin has said or done. He doesn't admire or respect Ukraine, he thinks it's an abomination that Ukraine exists.

Never said he did admire or respect Ukraine, you presume to much.

 

[Sheva 125]

18 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Was going to say, this is more about what Putin wants for Russia (and Ukraine). We're dealing with a madman here. And more than anything, wean ourselves off Russian gas (as well as Arabian oil).

Angry with the west yes but far from a madman.

[Herman 9,857]

The west's appeasement and greed has made Putin one of the richest mob bosses in the world.. Not sure why he would be angry with us. 

[horsefly 4,323]

2 hours ago, Sheva said:

No

??? That was a comment addressed to BroadstairsR, not you.

[horsefly 4,323]

2 hours ago, Sheva said:

Never said he did admire or respect Ukraine, you presume to much.

 

Your exact words, "We shouldn’t fear Russia, they always respected and admired us". Putin is the president of Russia and controls everything it does. He is surrounded by other powerful Russians who agree with his view that Ukraine is not a genuine country and is stolen Russian land.  Ukrainians have every reason to fear Russia, as the devastation Russia has visited upon it makes patently obvious. 

[TheGunnShow 6,089]

12 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Your exact words, "We shouldn’t fear Russia, they always respected and admired us". Putin is the president of Russia and controls everything it does. He is surrounded by other powerful Russians who agree with his view that Ukraine is not a genuine country and is stolen Russian land.  Ukrainians have every reason to fear Russia, as the devastation Russia has visited upon it makes patently obvious. 

It speaks volumes that the Poles have decided to ramp things up with their army. History has taught them when to be careful of machinations within Russia that are not the friendliest - most notably the Partitions of Poland and subsequent erasure of their country from the map of Europe from 1795 to 1918 (the short-lived Duchy of Warsaw notwithstanding).

[Sheva 125]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Your exact words, "We shouldn’t fear Russia, they always respected and admired us". Putin is the president of Russia and controls everything it does. He is surrounded by other powerful Russians who agree with his view that Ukraine is not a genuine country and is stolen Russian land.  Ukrainians have every reason to fear Russia, as the devastation Russia has visited upon it makes patently obvious. 

 

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Your exact words, "We shouldn’t fear Russia, they always respected and admired us". Putin is the president of Russia and controls everything it does. He is surrounded by other powerful Russians who agree with his view that Ukraine is not a genuine country and is stolen Russian land.  Ukrainians have every reason to fear Russia, as the devastation Russia has visited upon it makes patently obvious. 

We ( UK) ………