Should we be accepting of the clubs' lack of transfers?

[NewNestCarrow 203]

2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I'm sure it would, but still a cheap roll of the dice at a new option or two! 

So how much would this "cheap roll of the dice" cost?

Please include the penalty payments to Chelsea & Stuttgart, plus the costs of any new players you think would make a difference.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

1 minute ago, NewNestCarrow said:

So how much would this "cheap roll of the dice" cost?

Please include the penalty payments to Chelsea & Stuttgart, plus the costs of any new players you think would make a difference.

Ah the old shut down a debate by demanding impossible facts - much like the ‘who wants to buy us then’ card. Give the board a pass by ever claiming nobody on earth could ever do any better and no other solutions can possibly exist. 

[NewNestCarrow 203]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Ah the old shut down a debate by demanding impossible facts - much like the ‘who wants to buy us then’ card. Give the board a pass by ever claiming nobody on earth could ever do any better and no other solutions can possibly exist. 

No-one is shutting down the debate. I am asking a very simple question.

How much - roughly - would the OP expect to spend on this "cheap roll of the dice"?

[GenerationA47 762]

2 hours ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Really not much point getting bent out of shape over something over which you have no control. You can always start/join a protest group or not renew your season ticket in protest if it makes you feel better......

Right!

And if enough ST holders do it that could  make a real difference to the kitty. Fan power!

[Kenny Foggo 1,117]

No

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

11 minutes ago, NewNestCarrow said:

So how much would this "cheap roll of the dice" cost?

Please include the penalty payments to Chelsea & Stuttgart, plus the costs of any new players you think would make a difference.

I couldn't tell you, but its certainly a hell of a lot less than the potential windfall from premier league safety. If its a couple million that becomes a sunk cost as a result of terminating the loans and brining in new ones then so be it IMO. I could be wrong but would be surprised if it was significantly more than that. How much do you think it will cost?  

(Also Kabak is on loan from Schalke 04)

[Kenny Foggo 1,117]

2 hours ago, Commonsense said:

One word. Naismith. Once bitten twice shy, though I do think you have a point.

So because our owners got it wrong on one player we must never try to strengthen again in January... ok

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

@NewNestCarrow

I'd also argue that its in our interests to send both of them back. 

Kabak is 4th choice CB, and we can make do with other back up players (Sorensen filled in very well earlier in the season and Zimmerman when he is back).

Gilmour was actively upsetting the balance of our team such was his lack of suitability, I can honestly say I would not care if he were to never play another game for us.

So how much will it cost the club to keep this deadweight around and continue paying their wages / any additional fees even though they're either not playing whatsoever or actively hindering the balance of the side when they do?

Yes we might lose a bit of money in the process of terminating their loans and bringing in replacements, but we're then giving ourselves another chance of acquiring players who might actually help the team. Instead we appear to be crossing our fingers and hoping that they will come good, well I can't see it, and to be honest I'd rather not see Gilmour slot straight back into the team when he's fit again. This is not the time to develop a struggling player who does not and will never belong to us. 

[NewNestCarrow 203]

7 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I couldn't tell you, but its certainly a hell of a lot less than the potential windfall from premier league safety. If its a couple million that becomes a sunk cost as a result of terminating the loans and brining in new ones then so be it IMO. I could be wrong but would be surprised if it was significantly more than that. How much do you think it will cost?  

(Also Kabak is on loan from Schalke 04)

If it really were that simple (winning is more valuable than failing) then you should rush out & buy £10,000 worth of lottery tickets, because winning £5,000,000 is the "potential windfall"!

I have no idea of how much your plan would cost, but as 40-50% of next season's parachute money is *already* committed to repaying a loan then there really isn't anything left to spend.

 

[hertfordyellow 460]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Watford just signed a left back for £3.6m and paid the same for Dennis in the summer.

So perhaps we should just be hiring somebody who is better at recruitment? 

And we signed a midfielder for 5. What’s your point? We are talking about a specific position and one in high demand 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

No idea if we will or won't sign anyone. But if we do we won't know about it in advance.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Just now, NewNestCarrow said:

If it really were that simple (winning is more valuable than failing) then you should rush out & buy £10,000 worth of lottery tickets, because winning £5,000,000 is the "potential windfall"!

Totally irrelevant analogy but okay. 

I'm genuinely baffled that you are so against replacing two totally ineffectual loans.

Of course there's a risk the new ones might not come off, but we already know where Gilmour and Kabak are in this team. Sticking with them does not help us in any way, shape or form.

If we were to secure two successful loan signings (yes I know 'if'), then I believe it gives us a much greater chance of staying up this season. 

So yes that would represent a couple of million spent to potentially secure ~£100 million (or whatever you want to call it), if it works more than 2% of the time then its a worthy gamble 👍

[wcorkcanary 4,352]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Watford just signed a left back for £3.6m and paid the same for Dennis in the summer.

So perhaps we should just be hiring somebody who is better at recruitment? 

Our wage structure  may well be an issue too. 

[wcorkcanary 4,352]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

No idea if we will or won't sign anyone. But if we do we won't know about it in advance.

But if we don't sign  anyone,  will we know that in advance? .

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

No idea if we will or won't sign anyone. But if we do we won't know about it in advance.

Yep let's hope so NN - but the word from the Smith could not have set fan expectations any lower, which is probably a sign. 

Any signing we do make will now feel a massive bonus at least!

[Greavsy 2,457]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

No idea if we will or won't sign anyone. But if we do we won't know about it in advance.

Im sure some in the inner circle would, or maybe the elite. 

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Just now, wcorkcanary said:

But if we don't sign  anyone,  will we know that in advance? .

Only if we jump to conclusions...

[hertfordyellow 460]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Are Watford in the premier league or are they playing football manager?

Watford have made a few signings. None that make me jealous. We need a DM as good as Normann or Skipp but on a budget. Finding that player and seeing it through to purchase is no way as easy as made out.

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Have beloved Brentford ♥️🤍 made any signings?

[NewNestCarrow 203]

3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

So yes that would represent a couple of million spent to potentially secure ~£100 million (or whatever you want to call it), if it works more than 2% of the time then its a worthy gamble 👍

Ha ha ha.

So you genuinely think that paying off Chelsea and the German club, and then replacing Gilmour & Kabak with two other *better* loan players would cost just a couple of million? 

Good luck with that!

[Highland Canary 76]

I suspect our business model will simply not support additional  wages in the championship. Only new investment might ameliorate this challenge.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 minute ago, NewNestCarrow said:

Ha ha ha.

So you genuinely think that paying off Chelsea and the German club, and then replacing Gilmour & Kabak with two other *better* loan players would cost just a couple of million? 

Good luck with that!

Come on then Stuart, why don't you tell us? 

To be clear I'm not including wage or monthly fee costs on the new loans because those costs clearly replace the cost savings from Gilmour and Kabak. 

So any lost revenue would purely be down to how much it costs to terminate the loans. Of which I have no idea as I'm not familiar with them at all.

But I would be surprised if its significantly more than a couple of million as I said before, after all its in the loaning clubs interests for those players to be playing and to be successful / developing. So why would they put substantial barriers in the way that prevent their players coming back in the event of them failing at their temporary club? Doesn't make sense. If I were Chelsea or Schalke I'd be clamouring to have my player back... 😄 

Why do you want us to keep paying the wages and any additional monthly fees for two players who are not positively impacting the squad whatsoever?

[Badger 2,413]

1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Ah the old shut down a debate by demanding impossible facts - much like the ‘who wants to buy us then’ card. Give the board a pass by ever claiming nobody on earth could ever do any better and no other solutions can possibly exist. 

Oh its the old "don't try a bring a semblance of reality to the argument shut down!"

As soon as anyone brings anything even remotely resembling realism to the table they get dismissed as board lovers and relatives!

But, let's keep it simple, if you don't accept it, what are you going to do to stop it?

[Commonsense 652]

52 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So because our owners got it wrong on one player we must never try to strengthen again in January... ok

Wildsh*t?

[Kenny Foggo 1,117]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Oh its the old "don't try a bring a semblance of reality to the argument shut down!"

As soon as anyone brings anything even remotely resembling realism to the table they get dismissed as board lovers and relatives!

But, let's keep it simple, if you don't accept it, what are you going to do to stop it?

I think people from both sides of the argument are as bad as each other to be honest. The realism I see, is that with a couple of well scouted additions (a much needed central defensive midfielder and an additional striker) we could reap the riches the top flight gives you and massively improve the 1st team, the others see that spending even a penny more than we have in the bank is an absolute no no and relegation is an acceptable consequence of that. Both have down sides and upsides.

Never will you accept anything other than what you believe.. fair enough. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,117]

4 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Wildsh*t?

We also bought badly in the summer, should we not buy in that period also? 

[nutty nigel 7,649]

39 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yep let's hope so NN - but the word from the Smith could not have set fan expectations any lower, which is probably a sign. 

Any signing we do make will now feel a massive bonus at least!

"It's still quiet at the moment. We're monitoring a lot of different situations and I'm having a lot of discussions obviously with Stuart and Neil."

Here's hoping something happens.

[Greavsy 2,457]

32 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

"It's still quiet at the moment. We're monitoring a lot of different situations and I'm having a lot of discussions obviously with Stuart and Neil."

Here's hoping something happens.

So NN are you saying you want us to sign someone ? Just to be clear?

[Badger 2,413]

48 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I think people from both sides of the argument are as bad as each other to be honest. The realism I see, is that with a couple of well scouted additions (a much needed central defensive midfielder and an additional striker) we could reap the riches the top flight gives you and massively improve the 1st team, the others see that spending even a penny more than we have in the bank is an absolute no no and relegation is an acceptable consequence of that. Both have down sides and upsides.

Never will you accept anything other than what you believe.. fair enough. 

I don't know if anybody thinks the latter (which I have emboldened)-

1. We almost certainly have borrowed money this year

2. Nobody wants relegation - it is not a question of fans "accepting it" as there is nothing they can do. 

3. I find it ironic that some of those who have said months ago that we are certainly relegated, and several saying we would be with a record points low, now want us to spend for presumably no purpose at all.

4. For my part, and I suspect for many others, we would be pleased if we were able to get a couple of outstanding additions but we are realistic enough to recognise that the odds of doing so are against us. What we don't want to do is spend more money just for the sake of it on players that won't improve us.

[cornish sam 966]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but, for those saying we should roll the dice and try to buy someone, you're advocating gambling x million pounds that the one or two people will help us stay up. Why is that a better option than rolling the dice and gambling that the players we have already got who are coming back from injury and have now had a chance to aclimatise to the team and the league won't be able to keep us up? Any new players will need a.settling in period which is going to potentially mean one step backwards for hopefully 2 forwards or we sign them and then don't play them for a month by which the.the current crop would have either done enough to show we still have hope or left us to far adrift for a new signing to make a tangible difference...

As i posted in another thread, our form over the last ten games is enough to see us staying up, add to that players coming back and we should have a much stronger second half of the season. Will it be enough? I don't know, but, if we stick with the players we have it won't be the end of the world...