Booing is and always will be tin-pot

[Badger 2,413]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Maybe address the other point you didn’t quote then as I addressed this too. I think a few seconds of booing is a controlled vent of negative emotion personally, same as getting up and walking out.

1. If you are now arguing that it is a "controlled vent" I am a bit confused - I thought that you were arguing the opposite, that it couldn't be controlled?

2. Getting up and walking out does not negatively affect performance, booing does, therefore it is a better expression of frustration. It is similar to walking away from a fight or argument, although you might not wish to.*

* In my own case, I prefer not to walk away from fights, I like to run like hell!

[lake district canary 4,557]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

They aren’t similar at all, one is minor, one is a massive escalation and loss of control resulting in a crime.

I’m saying that booing a poor performance at the final whistle is a vent of negative emotions that given the heightened nature of emotions at a football match is controlled. My opinion.

They are related though. We are talking about reactions to emotional situations after all.

Walking away is one way of dealing with emotions you feel like reacting to - and that is what people do when they leave a match early when things are going so badly - they can't change the situation so they walk away.  

Counsellors say that in a difficult situation you have to either accept it, walk away - or do something about it.  With football, you can't do anything about it, so your choices are limited - either you accept the poor performance for what it is and move on to the next one, or you walk away, which is quite sensible if you can't deal with it. 

If you think that booing is "doing something about it" then I would say it is not - it doesn't improve anything, it is damaging - as has been said by so many people, so what is the point in it? 

 

[Carra Rud 17]

You pay your money... boo happy slap do what you want. Can't wait till we are beasting in the Chumps again... its obvious how the club is run, we'll never amount to anything but PL bottom feeders. Lets just hope the club doesn't nose dive into League 1 like the scum and stay there for decades.

I knew this would turn sour, OAP cook, Roy Hodgson getting air time and the second rate German. Don't forget Klopp was the real boss, Farke is/was just a reserve teamer (Neil Adams FTW!?).

[Badger 2,413]

Just now, lake district canary said:

If you think that booing is "doing something about it" then I would say it is not - it doesn't improve anything, it is damaging - as has been said by so many people, so what is the point in it? 

I think that it was Dennis Healey who said that "if you are in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

Of course there is alternative of panicking, which some seem to prefer as they can't control their emotions.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

34 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

I love my kids, I love my footy, I dont boo at either if they fail at something. I try to help them succeed in the most positive way I can.

Lack of effort would upset me more than failure. 

 

25 minutes ago, Badger said:

Sorry, but I think that the logic that some would have to draw from this is that you don't love your kids as much as they do and you are not as emotionally invested!

The alternative, is, I suppose they could admit to talking nonsense 🤔

So this comparison pretty much summarises to me why I think booing after a game is acceptable, if that is what people feel in the moment (I haven't done it myself). 

I overall grew up with great support from my family and friends, you could say it was similar to my own support for NCFC.

Yet despite this, there were still the odd occasions where I did something wrong or someone else did something wrong and it resulted in a heated argument of some kind.

During these arguments both parties would tend to lose their tempers, and both parties would say things in the heat of the moment that they might later regret. However it never went further than that, because, as I say their our overall support for one another was unwavering.

I'm sure both parties would also say in retrospect, when things had cooled down, that what they said was not 'constructive' or 'helpful' or anything of the kind, just like Badger and his obsession with quotes from managers and players on booing. 

Yet despite this underlying knowledge of it not being helpful for anyone, it still didn't stop me or others doing it. Because emotions overtook the logic in that moment. 

Trying to compare booing with hitting your partner is insane, those two things aren't remotely comparable. The difference extremity of the actions and consequences is stark. I understand its about 'controlling emotions', but if you're having to 'control' anything to stop yourself resorting to violence then you clearly already have a massive issue, regardless of whether you can supress those urges or not. 

That's what brings me to my comparison; booing your football team = losing your rag during an argument with a family member / friend in the heat of the moment. Surely we've all done that at least once or twice?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Badger 2,413]

6 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

That's what brings me to my comparison; booing your football team = losing your rag during an argument with a family member / friend in the heat of the moment. Surely we've all done that at least once or twice?

Well I certainly have "lost my rag" and said things to family members that I shouldn't have. However, when I have done so, I have regretted it and have often (not always TBH) apologized. I don't think of it as a good thing and something that I am perfectly entitled to do, especially when I know that it has been damaging.

It is something I try to control and certainly know of family members who bear the scars of arguments decades ago. Sometimes it is difficult to forget, as we see in marriage breakdowns + I have known good friends never speak to one another again.

(Not aimed at you HSS - please don't start enraged posts saying that I am comparing it with marriage etc - I know the differences, I was responding HSS's point about family behaviour)

[hogesar 9,788]

I don't think anyone can deny that booing generally has a negative impact on footballers. Because those in football, footballers themselves, nothing to do with NCFC, have said it. Lot's have said it. I don't think they're all making it up.

From a fans point of view I've said all along if fans decide to boo at the end it doesn't really bother me personally - but it's fair to say they should accept they're generally having a negative effect. Lot's of people do things in the spur of the moment that have a negative effect so fans shouldn't be 'blamed', but should accept that it's unlikely to have a positive outcome.

[Midlands Yellow 4,115]

The Carrow Road crowd are very fair and forgiving as a rule. Many times the team has been clapped off after defeats (stoke at home L 1.0) a few seasons back is a great example. If you keep pushing them though especially with the performance last Saturday a boo to show displeasure wasn’t unwarranted. 

[lake district canary 4,557]

8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I don't think anyone can deny that booing generally has a negative impact on footballers. Because those in football, footballers themselves, nothing to do with NCFC, have said it. Lot's have said it. I don't think they're all making it up.

From a fans point of view I've said all along if fans decide to boo at the end it doesn't really bother me personally - but it's fair to say they should accept they're generally having a negative effect. Lot's of people do things in the spur of the moment that have a negative effect so fans shouldn't be 'blamed', but should accept that it's unlikely to have a positive outcome.

I think this is at the heart of the argument. Just an acknowledgent that it is a negative reaction and as such is more likely to do more harm than good would do, but we don't get that.....it's an "I'll boo if I want to" attitude, regardless of what harm it might do.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I think this is at the heart of the argument. Just an acknowledgent that it is a negative reaction and as such is more likely to do more harm than good would do, but we don't get that.....it's an "I'll boo if I want to" attitude, regardless of what harm it might do.

Eh? Hasn't everyone already accepted booing probably has a negative impact. How strong an impact it actually has is hard to say, but I would agree its almost certainly not positive. I'm sure if that's all the discussion was then it would've ended some time ago. 

But it is you and badger who keeps persisting on how people should simply control their emotions in the heat of the moment and not do it at all?

[lake district canary 4,557]

3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Eh? Hasn't everyone already accepted booing probably has a negative impact. How strong an impact it actually has is hard to say, but I would agree its almost certainly not positive. I'm sure if that's all the discussion was then it would've ended some time ago. 

But it is you and badger who keeps persisting on how people should simply control their emotions in the heat of the moment and not do it at all?

Only because it is a justifiable and even logical question to ask that if something is harmful, or potentially harmful, why do it? 

Edited September 23, 2021 by lake district canary

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Only because it is a logical question to ask that if something is harmful, or potentially harmful, why do it? 

Why shout at someone close when you've been angry or let down by them?

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

18 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Just an acknowledgent that it is a negative reaction and as such is more likely to do more harm than good would do

And clearly the acknowledge I just made won't do after all?

Edited September 23, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I just shudder to think of the emotional scarring this has caused.

The whole thing is just black hat versus white hat. I think there is a bit of over the top just about a group of people booing.

Support the club how you want to not how others tell you to.

[lake district canary 4,557]

Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Only because it is a logical question to ask that if something is harmful, or potentially harmful, why do it? 

Why shout at someone close when you've been angry or let down by them?

Shouting or arguing about something is in the moment - like when we shout at players if they make a mistake - but booing is not that - booing is something you do to bad guys - like you would boo a pantomime villain - and booing at a substitution in ignorance of the reasons for it is on that pantomime level imo. Booing after a match would be more palatable if we were well into the season with a settled squad and with players that have had time to forge good teamwork but were still losing every match, but even then it would be counter productive for the same reasons that have been mentioned all along - it is unhelpful and not remotely of any benefit to anyone.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Shouting or arguing about something is in the moment - like when we shout at players if they make a mistake - but booing is not that - booing is something you do to bad guys - like you would boo a pantomime villain - and booing at a substitution in ignorance of the reasons for it is on that pantomime level imo. Booing after a match would be more palatable if we were well into the season with a settled squad and with players that have had time to forge good teamwork but were still losing every match, but even then it would be counter productive for the same reasons that have been mentioned all along - it is unhelpful and not remotely of any benefit to anyone.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[hogesar 9,788]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I just shudder to think of the emotional scarring this has caused.

The whole thing is just black hat versus white hat. I think there is a bit of over the top just about a group of people booing.

Support the club how you want to not how others tell you to.

I've not read through it all, but i've not seen anyone comment on emotional scarring.

Just that it's demonstrably proven to have a negative effect, according to those on the receiving end. Like you say, it's up to others what they choose to do with that information.

[Midlands Yellow 4,115]

Ok let’s drop booing. What about mooning instead? Starting with the City stand as that’s heading to the tunnel. Fans could start undoing belts and braces around half four. As one they rise, spin round and bend to show the players 4,000 wrinkly backsides at the full time whistle. 

A calm protest and point made that should stop any further abject displays for many seasons. 
 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Midlands Yellow

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,467]

7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I just shudder to think of the emotional scarring this has caused.

The whole thing is just black hat versus white hat. I think there is a bit of over the top just about a group of people booing.

Support the club how you want to not how others tell you to.

Just reading this over an Executive Tesco Meal Deal.

What a load of tripe . I especially love the pseudo intellectual guff . And some thing about a sausage roll? If I go to the bakers and there is no one there , does it make a sound? 
 

Football fandom is a wonderful mixture of irrational passion and emotional outpouring ! If next time something happens whilst watching City - I feel the need to  reach for a Desmond Morris thesis , you have my permission to shoot me . 
 

 

[Badger 2,413]

20 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Eh? Hasn't everyone already accepted booing probably has a negative impact.

Amazingly, no they haven't. Similarly, a lot of them ignore all the financial evidence as well.

Ostriches spring to mind. 

[Badger 2,413]

2 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

If next time something happens whilst watching City - I feel the need to  reach for a Desmond Morris thesis , you have my permission to shoot me . 

 

 

I think you need to update yourself on other threads. We are now being told that we don't have a gun! 😉

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,467]

Just now, Badger said:

I think you need to update yourself on other threads. We are now being told that we don't have a gun! 😉

I actually gave up half way through. I dropped some Tesco pasta down my shirt which I am NOT HAPPY ABOUT 😡

I’m going to vent my rage at the lady behind the till in the petrol station that sold it to me . Tesco Thetford should be ashamed of themselves. Boooooooooooooo. 😲

[Naturalcynic 679]

25 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I actually gave up half way through. I dropped some Tesco pasta down my shirt which I am NOT HAPPY ABOUT 😡

I’m going to vent my rage at the lady behind the till in the petrol station that sold it to me . Tesco Thetford should be ashamed of themselves. Boooooooooooooo. 😲

It’s your own sub-optimal performance that you should be booing.  You’ve clearly not put in the hours at home practising the difficult skills essential for effective pasta consumption at the highest level.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Naturalcynic

[Monty13 2,267]

49 minutes ago, Badger said:

1. If you are now arguing that it is a "controlled vent" I am a bit confused - I thought that you were arguing the opposite, that it couldn't be controlled?

2. Getting up and walking out does not negatively affect performance, booing does, therefore it is a better expression of frustration. It is similar to walking away from a fight or argument, although you might not wish to.*

* In my own case, I prefer not to walk away from fights, I like to run like hell!

No sorry, again poorly phrased so fair play for picking up on it. I’m saying that there are some really unpleasant things people can do when they are angry and upset, LDC gave an example and you gave some examples earlier in the thread of people on Saturday doing some pretty nasty things that are a loss of control. Im saying most people control themselves and don’t fly off the handle like that. If the worse thing they do is boo that’s overall pretty controlled.

I don’t think there’s evidence to suggest that one does and one definitely doesn’t affect players negatively. Paper quotes aren’t research on the subjective. I don’t agree it’s akin to walking away from a fight either, it’s more like walking out of a theatre performance and the affect that has on the act. There’s probably a scale of affect abd one is likely more detrimental than the other but I don’t believe it’s 1 and 0.

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,467]

49 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

It’s your own sub-optimal performance that you should be booing.  You’ve clearly not put in the hours at home practising the difficult skills essential for effective pasta consumption at the highest level.

Rubbish. It was one of those dodgy plastic forks that you get with their pasta pots. Not fit for purpose. 

My own performance was exemplary. 🤣

 

[Badger 2,413]

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I actually gave up half way through.

Well no wonder you thought the thread was boring - you missed all the exciting bits!😃

[Badger 2,413]

2 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Im saying most people control themselves and don’t fly off the handle like that. If the worse thing they do is boo that’s overall pretty controlled.

From another perspective, my Wife said at the time "Why do men behave like this."

She was actually a bit more forthright, but made the point that no women seemed to be behaving in the same way as the men were. I can't recall seeing any women booing, can you?

[king canary 7,695]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

From another perspective, my Wife said at the time "Why do men behave like this."

She was actually a bit more forthright, but made the point that no women seemed to be behaving in the same way as the men were. I can't recall seeing any women booing, can you?

Do...do you think women don't boo? 

[Badger 2,413]

I didn't see any, did you?

[Naturalcynic 679]

16 minutes ago, Badger said:

From another perspective, my Wife said at the time "Why do men behave like this."

She was actually a bit more forthright, but made the point that no women seemed to be behaving in the same way as the men were. I can't recall seeing any women booing, can you?

Nice but of gratuitous gender stereotyping.