Booing is and always will be tin-pot

[nutty nigel 7,534]

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

So you are saying people should boo more... 😏

Definitely if it is indeed helpful. We should try anything to welcome our new players and make them feel part of the Canaries family👍👍👍

[Naturalcynic 631]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Booing the opposition would make much more sense. 

 

Surely we should cheer and applaud the opposition. To do otherwise might impact negatively on the emotional and professional wellbeing of their young and impressionable players, some of whom might suffer long term consequences as a result.  Anything less than 100% support for both teams is unacceptable.

[king canary 7,606]

10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Part of me wanted to let it go because the point is valid (I'm sure Kabak has been boo'd by more hostile supporters before) but I couldn't resist.

Cant blame you, when you've had it laid on a plate like that you have to take the tap in.

[Monty13 2,234]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Emotions are emotions and that is fine, but booing - as I tried to explain it earlier to DDJ - is a reaction to an emotion which you choose to do - it is a choice. 

We all get emotional at all sorts of different times and for different reasons, but how we respond to those emotions is what is important. People seem to think that if they don't "let it out" in some way that they are bottling their emotions up, but in reality we all have to deal with our emotions in a way that is healthy and if your emotions cause you to act in a way that is damaging to others, then you have let the emotion take you over - and everyone that is the subject of being booed says it is not helpful and that it could even be damaging to a young player's confidence - so why do it?  What is the beneft of it? 

Booing the opposition would make much more sense. 

I don’t agree with your argument LDC, I think it’s extremely flawed.

In a highly emotive state and surrounded by others in such a state most humans will act emotionally.

That’s what sees the outburst of positivity when a player scores or a team wins.

Saying you must be highly emotional in positivity as a supporter but must never let that emotion out negatively or you will be branded as someone with no self control is a bizarre illogical argument to me, that’s really not how most people function.

You want the highs of positive emotion from people, be prepared for some lows as well. It’s nowhere near as easy as you say to only be positive which I believe is the point about mental health that was being made.

 

[Badger 2,405]

41 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-fans-leaving-anfield-10409998

Klopp made a point about people leaving early and it’s negative affect on him...

He said felt "alone" and then went on to say

"Look, I say what I think, please don't make it bigger than it is. “I'm not disappointed. Maybe it's easier to leave the stadium with 10 minutes to play. There are reasons."

At no point did he suggest that it affected performance whereas player after player have said that booing negatively affects their confidence and performance.

48 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I just find the obsession over booing ... a bit pointless personally. 

You find it pointless that people are concerned about behaviour that makes players play worse and can damage our prospects? I simply can't understand this - surely you want the best for the team - so why condone something that makes it worse for them?

51 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

It just smacks of people trying to impose that they are a better type of supporter

You might think this - to me it just smacks of people who want the best for the team and wanting to support them rather than damage them.

[Naturalcynic 631]

Just now, Monty13 said:

You want the highs of positive emotion from people, be prepared for some lows as well. It’s nowhere near as easy as you say to only be positive which I believe is the point about mental health that was being made.

 

It’s far easier if you’re sitting in your armchair 200 miles away, listening to occasional score updates on 5Live whilst doing the crossword.

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Saying you must be highly emotional in positivity as a supporter but must never let that emotion out negatively or you will be branded as someone with no self control is a bizarre illogical argument to me, that’s really not how most people function.

How illogical? All it is saying is use the emotion positively and not negatively! This is how people function in real life - we are taught from a young age to control ourselves and out animal instincts.

Can you honestly say that you haven't seen material (books etc) about controlling the negative side of being highly motivated + use the positive? In real life we are taught to control our emotions that impact negatively - you seem to think that we should not do so.

[Monty13 2,234]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

He said felt "alone" and then went on to say

"Look, I say what I think, please don't make it bigger than it is. “I'm not disappointed. Maybe it's easier to leave the stadium with 10 minutes to play. There are reasons."

At no point did he suggest that it affected performance whereas player after player have said that booing negatively affects their confidence and performance.

You find it pointless that people are concerned about behaviour that makes players play worse and can damage our prospects? I simply can't understand this - surely you want the best for the team - so why condone something that makes it worse for them?

You might think this - to me it just smacks of people who want the best for the team and wanting to support them rather than damage them.

I’m sorry are you trying to suggest that feeling alone is not a negative state of mind?

The fact that he then caveated doesn’t change that. Farke said he understood why people booed and so are many of what you have shared similarly caveated, I don’t think that diminishes your argument or mine.

It’s very easy for you to go and find comments about booing because it’s a highly charged subject (this thread proves it) that means reporters want to ask questions about it because it sells. 

I think attacking other supporters for showing their dissatisfaction post game by booing is pointless yes. Have at the substitution and taking a knee boilers.

I’m glad you want the best for the team, but maybe, just maybe, consider that a good portion of those that booed (and will probably boo again at some point) were 100% behind the players until that whistle went and that does not make them lesser supporters, just different.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

Very topical, given our next match.  Plenty of booing from the Evertonians after Srbeny’s goal.

Yes - and they lost this game and won only 1 of the next 5 as well. The booing worked well didn't it?

[lake district canary 4,531]

16 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Saying you must be highly emotional in positivity as a supporter but must never let that emotion out negatively or you will be branded as someone with no self control is a bizarre illogical argument to me, that’s really not how most people function.

But I didn't say that. I didn't say you couldn't let an emotion out. You can let out your emotions in all sorts of ways - but it's always a choice how you do it. If your reaction to an emotion is damaging, then you have let it go too far.  For instance, if you have an argument with your other half, things can get very heated, but you know how far you can go with it - you don't let your emotions get to the stage of damaging that person, because if you did, there would be consequences - you learn to deal with it in a way that doesn't harm - or you walk away. 

Same with booing - it is accepted that booing is damaging to players' performance on the pitch, particularly younger players - so again, why do it? 

[Monty13 2,234]

13 minutes ago, Badger said:

How illogical? All it is saying is use the emotion positively and not negatively! This is how people function in real life - we are taught from a young age to control ourselves and out animal instincts.

Can you honestly say that you haven't seen material (books etc) about controlling the negative side of being highly motivated + use the positive? In real life we are taught to control our emotions that impact negatively - you seem to think that we should not do so.

Because Badger, people in highly emotive states aren’t controlling their emotions.

You want people screaming and jumping into the air, grabbing strangers and hugging and throwing pints in positive celebration when another stranger they are associated with loosely kicks a pigs bladder between two posts…expect some unthinking instant negative emotional reactions when that doesn’t go well. 

Its not normal, and we are taught not to, go round roaring and screaming in glee and randomly letting loose with unconstrained positivity either.

You are making out like the positive emotion given off by crowds is something we all do every day, it’s not. It’s why the Greggs analogy is flawed.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Monty13

[Monty13 2,234]

Just now, lake district canary said:

But I didn't say that. I didn't say you couldn't let an emotion out. You can let out your emotions in all sorts of ways - but it's always a choice how you do it. If your reaction to an emotion is damaging, then you have let it go too far.  For instance, if you have an argument with your other half, things can get very heated, but you know how far you can go with it - you don't let your emotions get to the stage of damaging that person, because if you did, there would be consequences - you learn to deal with it in a way that doesn't harm - or you walk away. 

Same with booing - it is accepted that booing is damaging to players' performance on the pitch, particularly younger players - so again, why do it? 

Are you really comparing booing to hitting your partner? 

Booing is a normal, relatively mild crowd reaction to perceived poor performance.

If we are talking about throwing things at people, breaking things, threatening others, fighting etc. I could understand your point, but we are literally talking about one of the most emotionally controlled negative reactions a crowd can have.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Are you really comparing booing to hitting your partner? 

Booing is a normal, relatively mild crowd reaction to perceived poor performance.

If we are talking about throwing things at people, breaking things, threatening others, fighting etc. I could understand your point, but we are literally talking about one of the most emotionally controlled negative reactions a crowd can have.

Talk about over reaction.   Silly levels now. It was a tiny bit of booing move on... 

[Midlands Yellow 3,984]

How this subject has hit 13 pages should get the biggest boo. 

[Badger 2,405]

11 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I think attacking other supporters for showing their dissatisfaction post game by booing is pointless yes. Have at the substitution and taking a knee boilers.

Sorry Monty, there is no evidence that suggests that leaving early negatively impacts performance of players as far as I am aware.

I agree with you that booing during the game is even worse than booing at the end. I have spent far more time on threads criticizing booing of taking of the knee than I have on this one. I suspect it is one of the reasons that there have been a number of personal attacks as some didn't like my criticism of this either.

16 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I’m glad you want the best for the team, but maybe, just maybe, consider that a good portion of those that booed (and will probably boo again at some point) were 100% behind the players until that whistle went and that does not make them lesser supporters, just different.

Unlike you I heard a lot of booing before the final whistle, so whilst it may apply to some it was not imo a majority - how could we possibly measure?

Re the "supporter" issue; I don't want to go through that again. I think that words mean what they mean, not what I want them to.

[Badger 2,405]

12 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Because Badger, people in highly emotive states aren’t controlling their emotions.

 

Sorry this is simply wrong. People in highly emotive states have to control their emotions all the time in their professional and personal lives.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

13 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

You want people screaming and jumping into the air, grabbing strangers and hugging and throwing pints in positive celebration when another stranger they are associated with loosely kicks a pigs bladder between two posts…expect some unthinking instant negative emotional reactions when that doesn’t go well. 

When you put it like that, might have to rethink my hobbies...

[Badger 2,405]

11 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Are you really comparing booing to hitting your partner? 

 

Of course he is isn't comparing them as similar misdemeanours, as I'm surprised you don't realise. He is simply pointing out that in highly managed emotive states people DO manage to control themselves. It is an everyday occurrence.

[Naturalcynic 631]

15 minutes ago, Badger said:

Of course he is isn't comparing them as similar misdemeanours, as I'm surprised you don't realise. 

Neither are “misdemeanours”.  One is a crime and the other is a perfectly legitimate expression of disapproval.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Cant blame you, when you've had it laid on a plate like that you have to take the tap in.

Unless you're Adam Idah!     Sorry all, the tap in was there to be tapped in.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

I love my kids, I love my footy, I dont boo at either if they fail at something. I try to help them succeed in the most positive way I can.

Lack of effort would upset me more than failure. 

 

[Monty13 2,234]

39 minutes ago, Badger said:

Sorry Monty, there is no evidence that suggests that leaving early negatively impacts performance of players as far as I am aware.

I agree with you that booing during the game is even worse than booing at the end. I have spent far more time on threads criticizing booing of taking of the knee than I have on this one. I suspect it is one of the reasons that there have been a number of personal attacks as some didn't like my criticism of this either.

Unlike you I heard a lot of booing before the final whistle, so whilst it may apply to some it was not imo a majority - how could we possibly measure?

Re the "supporter" issue; I don't want to go through that again. I think that words mean what they mean, not what I want them to.

1. I never said I had evidence of it affecting players performance, I said it was a negative act and it is.

2. I never said I didn’t hear booing prior to the whistle, I’ve already addressed this multiple times, I didn’t like that, I don’t agree with it and it’s not what I’m talking about.

3. I’ve no idea how you measure, it’s my belief that the majority who booed didn’t boo before the final whistle just based on the volume of noise on subs vs final whistle. Maybe it wasn’t the majority who didn’t boo before but did after, but it certainly seemed that way to me.

[Badger 2,405]

25 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Neither are “misdemeanours”.  One is a crime and the other is a perfectly legitimate expression of disapproval.

Agree the word misdemeanour was a bad choice. 👍

the point still stands though - people routinely control themselves in extremely emotional situations.

[Badger 2,405]

2 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

1. I never said I had evidence of it affecting players performance, I said it was a negative act and it is.

So then we have an act that you agree doesn't impact on team performance and another act that reduces confidence and damages performance.

Which do you think is worse?

[Monty13 2,234]

44 minutes ago, Badger said:

Of course he is isn't comparing them as similar misdemeanours, as I'm surprised you don't realise. He is simply pointing out that in highly managed emotive states people DO manage to control themselves. It is an everyday occurrence.

They aren’t similar at all, one is minor, one is a massive escalation and loss of control resulting in a crime.

I’m saying that booing a poor performance at the final whistle is a vent of negative emotions that given the heightened nature of emotions at a football match is controlled. My opinion.

 

 

[Badger 2,405]

6 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

I love my kids, I love my footy, I dont boo at either if they fail at something. I try to help them succeed in the most positive way I can.

Lack of effort would upset me more than failure. 

 

Sorry, but I think that the logic that some would have to draw from this is that you don't love your kids as much as they do and you are not as emotionally invested!

The alternative, is, I suppose they could admit to talking nonsense 🤔

[Badger 2,405]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

They aren’t similar at all, one is minor, one is a massive escalation and loss of control resulting in a crime.

 

I agree - I've already corrected this - see above. Wrong choice of words by a reported pedant, but at least I have corrected myself! (Twice).

Again, as I have said above, the point still stands - we routinely control ourselves in emotional situations which is what LDC was saying.

[Monty13 2,234]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

So then we have an act that you agree doesn't impact on team performance and another act that reduces confidence and damages performance.

Which do you think is worse?

I didn’t say it doesn’t impact, I said I don’t have evidence. I’m actually going to look to see if there’s a study later as I’m now interested.

I think arguing over the subjective impact of two negative displays of dissatisfaction is pointless without sone actual research on the subject.

Regardless my opinion is the impact is probably minor, if the players didn’t walk off the pitch the last two games knowing their performances were woefully inadequate, regardless of the crowd, I’d question their professional integrity and commitment.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Sorry, but I think that the logic that some would have to draw from this is that you don't love your kids as much as they do and you are not as emotionally invested!

The alternative, is, I suppose they could admit to talking nonsense 🤔

There is that Badgero!!

Me, I prefer not to play Handball with a Haystack  as its so unrewarding. I admire your patience.

[Monty13 2,234]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

I agree - I've already corrected this - see above. Wrong choice of words by a reported pedant, but at least I have corrected myself! (Twice).

Again, as I have said above, the point still stands - we routinely control ourselves in emotional situations which is what LDC was saying.

Maybe address the other point you didn’t quote then as I addressed this too. I think a few seconds of booing is a controlled vent of negative emotion personally, same as getting up and walking out.