England vs San Marino

[Captain Holt 522]

How can anyone enjoy England other than the '10 German Bombers', Stone Island lot escapes me. Absolute drivel other than tournaments and even then it's mainly enjoyed by people who don't like football. It's a total inconvenience.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

And? For San Marino to pre-qualify, you're going to have to gunk up potential fixture lists of other smaller countries/microstates, or end up eliminating just a very small number beforehand so the paradox there is they get fewer games, which is also not ideal.

No-one disputes that San Marino are probably the weakest of the set. Gibraltar and Liechtenstein after that would be my guess and indeed it would be the case going off UEFA rankings.

Saying they should pre-qualify causes far more problems than it solves. The current situation is absolutely fine. If it bothers a bigger country so much, they can put the reserves in and let the first-teamers have a relaxed night away.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

And? For San Marino to pre-qualify, you're going to have to gunk up potential fixture lists of other smaller countries/microstates, or end up eliminating just a very small number beforehand so the paradox there is they get fewer games, which is also not ideal.

No-one disputes that San Marino are probably the weakest of the set. Gibraltar and Liechtenstein after that would be my guess and indeed it would be the case going off UEFA rankings.

Saying they should pre-qualify causes far more problems than it solves. The current situation is absolutely fine. If it bothers a bigger country so much, they can put the reserves in and let the first-teamers have a relaxed night away.

If they are that sure of themselves , that is. 😉😇😂

[kirku 1,332]

16 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

How can anyone enjoy England other than the '10 German Bombers', Stone Island lot escapes me. Absolute drivel other than tournaments and even then it's mainly enjoyed by people who don't like football. It's a total inconvenience.

Completely agree. It's dirge. 

[kirku 1,332]

35 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

And? For San Marino to pre-qualify, you're going to have to gunk up potential fixture lists of other smaller countries/microstates, or end up eliminating just a very small number beforehand so the paradox there is they get fewer games, which is also not ideal.

No-one disputes that San Marino are probably the weakest of the set. Gibraltar and Liechtenstein after that would be my guess and indeed it would be the case going off UEFA rankings.

Saying they should pre-qualify causes far more problems than it solves. The current situation is absolutely fine. If it bothers a bigger country so much, they can put the reserves in and let the first-teamers have a relaxed night away.

They are non-professional players. They barely have fixture lists to "gunk up"..

But, by all means, keep telling everyone the "current situation is absolutely fine" so that we can fly some bakers in during a global pandemic to play a football match against some of the best players in the sport.

Edit: herein lies the rub, you see the results of a nation who has lost 95% of its fixtures, scoring 24 goals while conceding 735, with no realistic prospects of improving their record and say "that is absolutely fine". I don't. I see those statistics and question the sporting merit..

Edited March 26, 2021 by kirku

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

2 hours ago, kirku said:

Are Iceland a microstate? No

Where are you going to draw the line? Teams that England has beaten? 

[kirku 1,332]

25 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Where are you going to draw the line? Teams that England has beaten? 

You could always use the FIFA rankings.

Iceland are most recently at 46th and average out at 64th. On the other hand, San Marino are 210th (last) and have an average position of 181st.

Therefore, Iceland are not a remotely relevant comparator for San Marino in this discussion.

As for your question, the "line" should be drawn some significant way beyond Iceland and this side of San Marino.

Edited March 26, 2021 by kirku

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

They are non-professional players. They barely have fixture lists to "gunk up"..

But, by all means, keep telling everyone the "current situation is absolutely fine" so that we can fly some bakers in during a global pandemic to play a football match against some of the best players in the sport.

Edit: herein lies the rub, you see the results of a nation who has lost 95% of its fixtures, scoring 24 goals while conceding 735, with no realistic prospects of improving their record and say "that is absolutely fine". I don't. I see those statistics and question the sporting merit..

They certainly do have fixture lists to gunk up as they all have their own leagues and cups for starters. The only country that doesn't have a league is Liechtenstein as they only have seven clubs (so they all play in the Swiss league instead). Furthermore, as part-timers, their work will also get in the way so it'll be even harder for those microstates to get a team together to represent them.

At most, your issue here, really, is with the notion of competitive international sport within this pandemic. I can agree with the absurdity here, but that's a totally different matter altogether.

This situation where one microstate faces a larger country as part of a qualifying tournament is absolutely fine. It's simply arrogance on the part of the bigger team to wonder why they have to turn up.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

For what it’s worth the number of countries competing for a World Cup finals place now huge . In European qualification where once there was USSR and Yugoslavia , I wouldn’t like to say how many countries that now equates to.

There isn’t an easy solution. 

 

[kirku 1,332]

17 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

They certainly do have fixture lists to gunk up as they all have their own leagues and cups for starters. The only country that doesn't have a league is Liechtenstein as they only have seven clubs (so they all play in the Swiss league instead). Furthermore, as part-timers, their work will also get in the way so it'll be even harder for those microstates to get a team together to represent them.

At most, your issue here, really, is with the notion of competitive international sport within this pandemic. I can agree with the absurdity here, but that's a totally different matter altogether.

This situation where one microstate faces a larger country as part of a qualifying tournament is absolutely fine. It's simply arrogance on the part of the bigger team to wonder why they have to turn up.

Bold: I agree, microstate part-timers shouldn't play against fully professional nations. The demands placed on elite athletes and those of the postman who turns out on a Sunday are not comparable (which is a thread running through all of your posts on this topic).

Arrogance: it is not arrogance, it is the factual reality of where they sit on the footballing pyramid.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

51 minutes ago, kirku said:

You could always use the FIFA rankings.

Iceland are most recently at 46th and average out at 64th. On the other hand, San Marino are 210th (last) and have an average position of 181st.

Therefore, Iceland are not a remotely relevant comparator for San Marino in this discussion.

As for your question, the "line" should be drawn some significant way beyond Iceland and this side of San Marino.

Good job no one thought of that in 1970. At that time they were a laughing stock. 50 years on and Gareth Southgate would make a bit of a mess in his pants if England drew them in the World Cup. 

It's called the World Cup for a reason. It's for the whole world. Not just the bit you approve of. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by dylanisabaddog

[kirku 1,332]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Good job no one thought of that in 1970. At that time they were a laughing stock. 50 years on and Gareth Southgate would make a bit of a mess in his pants if England drew them in the World Cup 

It's almost as if the world has changed somewhat in the last 50 years...

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

13 minutes ago, kirku said:

It's almost as if the world has changed somewhat in the last 50 years...

Yes it has changed. Because FIFA stopped listening to people like you 

[1902 1,167]

Honestly, international football is usually grim. Disjointed teams, some of the worst nationalistic elements of sport coming out all against a backdrop where, given the international nature of the top club sides, the world cup winner would rarely be the best team in the world.

Whereas test cricket is a pinnacle, and rugby arguably as well, international football is just an unwelcome distraction. 

[kirku 1,332]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Yes it has changed. Because FIFA stopped listening to people like you 

How dare I suggest that regular games between utter minnows and significant footballing nations might be a bit of a waste of everybody's time?

It's disgusting even thinking about it, isn't it? I'm not sure how I sleep at night..

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

23 minutes ago, kirku said:

Bold: I agree, microstate part-timers shouldn't play against fully professional nations. The demands placed on elite athletes and those of the postman who turns out on a Sunday are not comparable (which is a thread running through all of your posts on this topic).

Arrogance: it is not arrogance, it is the factual reality of where they sit on the footballing pyramid.

Faroe Islands did the double over Greece when Ranieri was in charge of Greece...and they have a population of 50,000. In fact, they're not even an independent country unlike San Marino, as they're a semi-autonomous region under Danish control. They do have a few more pros than San Marino though, but they're a similar-sized microstate that are higher in FIFA rankings than some much larger European countries (in terms of population, at least). Football's not even their main sport, it's rowing.

@Graham Paddons Beard makes a fair point about the number of countries as obviously the fall of the USSR and Yugoslavia, not to mention the split of Czechoslovakia has resulted in around 20 new countries plus a few small ones that joined UEFA, but then again, you just make more groups so there aren't really that many more games for the top dogs due to internationals.

 

[kirku 1,332]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Faroe Islands did the double over Greece when Ranieri was in charge of Greece...and they have a population of 50,000. 

 

Oh, they did the double over Greece? That settles it, they're definitely in.

Don't worry about the average ranking of 129th, the 80% loss rate or the 184 goals conceded to 35 scored. That's irrelevant. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Oh, they did the double over Greece? That settles it, they're definitely in.

Don't worry about the average ranking of 129th, the 80% loss rate or the 184 goals conceded to 35 scored. That's irrelevant. 

They beat - twice - a country that's won more major trophies than England over the last twenty years. 😉 

[kirku 1,332]

7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

They beat - twice - a country that's won more major trophies than England over the last twenty years. 😉 

Maybe we should get all of them to play Greece in two-legged ties? That can be the cut-off.

Or can it be any European nation who've won more major trophies than England in the last 20 years?

Edited March 26, 2021 by kirku

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

43 minutes ago, kirku said:

Maybe we should get all of them to play Greece in two-legged ties? That can be the cut-off.

Or can it be any European nation who've won more major trophies than England in the last 20 years?

So England have to pre-qualify?? Well, that would be funny!

[Ekoku: The Ambassador Of The People 122]

Its almost as though pre-covid, that tourism didn’t help these minnow countries and a chance for fans to witness some of the World’s best playing in their country🤔

[shefcanary 2,409]

Jesus, you lot.  It was only 5-0 FFS.  The way some of you are talking it implies the result was approaching 36-0.  When England win (like they used to) against such teams by scores in double figures you have a point.  But actually look at EPL.  Southampton lost 9-0 recently, should they be kicked out?  

This was an international test for the England boys.  In my view a relatively good test which IMHO they failed - only 5 goals.  All who played should be deducted fees as not good enough.

[Barbe bleu 826]

Could use the world Cup.qualifiers as a pre qualifying tournament for the euro qualifiers.  Bottom teams in the WC groups are not entered into euro qualifiers but can gain a place through the league of nations or some such arrangement. 

All the minnows still get their moments in the sun,  number of foregone conclusions is reduced and all teams could in theory still qualify for both tournaments 

[kirku 1,332]

33 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

But actually look at EPL.  Southampton lost 9-0 recently, should they be kicked out? 

If Southampton had similar results to San Marino then they would be "kicked out".

It's called relegation and, in this absurd comparison, they'd be out of the Football League.

That's what tends to happen to teams who manage to manage to concede 30 goals for every 1 they score. Oh, and Redmond would need to go and work at Tesco..

[cambridgeshire canary 6,720]

14 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Jesus, you lot.  It was only 5-0 FFS.  The way some of you are talking it implies the result was approaching 36-0.  When England win (like they used to) against such teams by scores in double figures you have a point.  But actually look at EPL.  Southampton lost 9-0 recently, should they be kicked out?  

This was an international test for the England boys.  In my view a relatively good test which IMHO they failed - only 5 goals.  All who played should be deducted fees as not good enough.

Plus England were playing thier B team, which everyone seems to be ignoring.

Edited March 27, 2021 by cambridgeshire canary

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Plus England were playing thier B team, which everyone seems to be ignoring.

Wow, that was brave of San Marino to put out their  B team against the might of Gareth Southgates bulldog boys then 😇.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

Talking of smaller footballing nations, good to see this lad taking the chance and being rewarded with a massive upgrade on the level of football he's coaching 👍

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56449233?at_campaign=64&at_custom1=[post+type]&at_custom3=Match+of+the+Day&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=89936D96-8E18-11EB-914B-C68E96E8478F&at_medium=custom7

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

On 26/03/2021 at 16:11, kirku said:

How dare I suggest that regular games between utter minnows and significant footballing nations might be a bit of a waste of everybody's time?

It's disgusting even thinking about it, isn't it? I'm not sure how I sleep at night..

Ireland 0 Luxembourg 1

[kirku 1,332]

33 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Ireland 0 Luxembourg 1

Luxembourg are not a microstate (their population is 21x greater than San Marino's), they have a large majority of professional players, and they're ranked in the top 100.

I'm not sure how I can make my views on this any clearer. At least you didn't reference Wales like Gunnshow...

Edit: from a quick glance, it actually looks like all their players are professional

Edited March 28, 2021 by kirku

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

40 minutes ago, kirku said:

Luxembourg are not a microstate (their population is 21x greater than San Marino's), they have a large majority of professional players, and they're ranked in the top 100.

I'm not sure how I can make my views on this any clearer. At least you didn't reference Wales like Gunnshow...

Edit: from a quick glance, it actually looks like all their players are professional

Can't help thinking that you're starting to look a bit silly.