New Tory Leader

[Herman 9,922]

19 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

It's a crafty pile of sh-ite.

Personal allowance not being increased means that they are not as generous as they purport to be ... work it out.

Yep.

 

[TheGunnShow 6,231]

1 hour ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Typical of the Tories to go after the low-hanging fruit of the physically and mentally ill than to go after tax evaders and their cronies who have multiple jobs whilst raking in £10k+ for doing an hour's work.

Exactly. Bernie Ecclestone's fine was £600 million from a single tax evader. How many nurses / policemen / benefit claims can be financed with that alone?

@Barbe bleu said something about more joined-up systems. I agree, and think Switzerland and Finland already have this to some extent. There's one excellent example, namely that fines are income-linked based on what they put into their income tax statement, hence why fines for speeding can sometimes be pretty severe in both countries and indeed, it looks like the police might be able to access them right away on a central database.

Finnish businessman hit with €121,000 speeding fine | Finland | The Guardian

Edited November 22, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[dylanisabaddog 5,165]

11 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Exactly. Bernie Ecclestone's fine was £600 million from a single tax evader. How many nurses / policemen / benefit claims can be financed with that alone?

@Barbe bleu said something about more joined-up systems. I agree, and think Switzerland and Finland already have this to some extent. There's one excellent example, namely that fines are income-linked based on what they put into their income tax statement, hence why fines for speeding can sometimes be pretty severe in both countries and indeed, it looks like the police might be able to access them right away on a central database.

Finnish businessman hit with €121,000 speeding fine | Finland | The Guardian

Sorry to have to correct you but the £600m paid by Eccleston wasn't a fine. It was the tax due plus interest. HMRC could have sought a financial penalty of anything up to 100% of the tax due but the CPS elected to prosecute instead. He clearly should have served a prison sentence but the decision by CPS looks like it cost the taxpayer something like £250m in lost penalties. 

So we do have the necessary laws in place, it was simply that Eccleston got a Judge who thought that stealing £500m only warranted a suspended sentence. If Eccleston had committed the same offence in, say America or Germany, he would have died in jail. 

[TheGunnShow 6,231]

4 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Sorry to have to correct you but the £600m paid by Eccleston wasn't a fine. It was the tax due plus interest. HMRC could have sought a financial penalty of anything up to 100% of the tax due but the CPS elected to prosecute instead. He clearly should have served a prison sentence but the decision by CPS looks like it cost the taxpayer something like £250m in lost penalties. 

So we do have the necessary laws in place, it was simply that Eccleston got a Judge who thought that stealing £500m only warranted a suspended sentence. If Eccleston had committed the same offence in, say America or Germany, he would have died in jail. 

No worries, thanks for the correction. At the same time, the basic financial crux stands - that single case yielded £600m with the opportunity costs associated with it relative to what benefit fraud costs.

Kicking up is much more worthwhile in financial terms rather than scraping down. What the Tories will do here is proven to fail and is basically a classic case of being penny-wise and pound-foolish.

Edited November 23, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[DraytonBoy 171]

The Ecclestone case is a brilliant example of why tax evasion/fraud should be aggressively pursued and all tax avoidance loopholes closed, the sums involved are huge and so much could be done with the billions lost every year. 

[NFN FC 1,124]

3 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

The Ecclestone case is a brilliant example of why tax evasion/fraud should be aggressively pursued and all tax avoidance loopholes closed, the sums involved are huge and so much could be done with the billions lost every year. 

It won't be done by the Tories. They'd be chasing their mates and themselves!

[horsefly 4,366]

https://x.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1727396988935655768?s=20

 

 

Sophy Ridge

 

@SophyRidgeSky

 

Number of people David Cameron’s Coalition Gvt took out of paying income tax: 3.2m (Treasury, 2015) Number of people the current Gvt brought back into paying income tax: 4 million (OBR, today)

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by horsefly

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

28 minutes ago, horsefly said:

https://x.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1727396988935655768?s=20

 

 

Sophy Ridge

 

@SophyRidgeSky

 

Number of people David Cameron’s Coalition Gvt took out of paying income tax: 3.2m (Treasury, 2015) Number of people the current Gvt brought back into paying income tax: 4 million (OBR, today)

 

How do you think we paid for Covid?

[NFN FC 1,124]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

How do you think we paid for Covid?

Credit?

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

On 22/11/2023 at 06:56, dylanisabaddog said:

Why on earth would anyone think this was worth wasting a court's time? 

Funny how he objects to name calling but would be happy with policies that treated people as scum.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

How do you think we paid for Covid?

Exactly. How we will pay for it? Not they pay for it. Like that crafty cow with her useless PPE who is now in the Lords.

[NFN FC 1,124]

2 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Scotland, an Oil rich country with zero oil refineries.

England, a country with zero Oil who have five oil refineries.

It's now Oil and Gas, water and wind farms and fishing and Whiskey. Next it'll probably be our clean air.

If there's English people who still don't understand why some Scottish people want independence, try putting yourself on our shoes for a minute.

New oil and gas licences North Sea and off Shetland.
Closure of Scotlands only refinery bypassed to England.

Onshore and Offshore winds farm boom in Scotland.
Transmission OHL and cable from peterhead to Yorkshire

Scotland highest electric & petrol charges

I think it's clear that Westminster (mo matter who is in power) is trying to completely decimate Scotland of its economy and its resources.

Scotland: Keeping England rich for 50 years and counting.

 

Not much we can do about it. You keep on banging your drum. 

[NFN FC 1,124]

1 hour ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Don't need your permission.

No sh1t.

[horsefly 4,366]

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

How do you think we paid for Covid?

Take a look at the National Debt, moron. It shouldn't be the poorest paying for the massive amount of corruption that lined the pockets of Tory chums.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by horsefly

[sonyc 5,542]

Cleverly hasn't been clever.

Two weeks into a job.

Stockton may well have its problems but you could bet that somewhere over the last few decades that Tory policy (especially) won't have helped. 

Whatever, imagine you're in the cabinet and not having the ability to stop blurting out your thoughts. He has since stated that he said that it was the MP he described as being "sh1t" and did not use the word "sh1thole" even though many heard him say it.

Standards again. Doubt he will resign.

[Barbe bleu 845]

4 hours ago, sonyc said:

Cleverly hasn't been clever.

Two weeks into a job.

Stockton may well have its problems but you could bet that somewhere over the last few decades that Tory policy (especially) won't have helped. 

Whatever, imagine you're in the cabinet and not having the ability to stop blurting out your thoughts. He has since stated that he said that it was the MP he described as being "sh1t" and did not use the word "sh1thole" even though many heard him say it.

Standards again. Doubt he will resign.

Never been but it's probably true.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

Take a look at the National Debt, moron. It shouldn't be the poorest paying for the massive amount of corruption that lined the pockets of Tory chums.  

How sad.

[Barbe bleu 845]

10 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

 

It's now Oil and Gas, water and wind farms and fishing and Whiskey. Next it'll probably be our clean air.

 

 

It's whisky in Scotland isn't it?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 hours ago, sonyc said:

Cleverly hasn't been clever.

Two weeks into a job.

Stockton may well have its problems but you could bet that somewhere over the last few decades that Tory policy (especially) won't have helped. 

Whatever, imagine you're in the cabinet and not having the ability to stop blurting out your thoughts. He has since stated that he said that it was the MP he described as being "sh1t" and did not use the word "sh1thole" even though many heard him say it.

Standards again. Doubt he will resign.

Stockton's really nice. It's got trees 'n stuff.

[sonyc 5,542]

46 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Never been but it's probably true.

Nor me - you reckon it is do you? Surprised at the comment - there's another poster who hates Liverpool. Perhaps it's a north-south thing? Where I live has huge socio economic problems - once rich and prosperous (wool) but forging a new identity is / has been a challenge. Barnsley, Oldham, Rochdale, Rotherham, Burnley and so on are all struggling towns. They've all suffered from industrial decline. I feel sure there are many other places in the Midlands and the South too. A recent visit to Sutton in Ashfield was maybe typically another town centre that just felt  'hollowed out'.

Trip Advisor link here:https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Tourism-g186380-Stockton_on_Tees_England-Vacations.html

The thing is surely all places have good things about them and not so good? There are marvellous places around where I am, culturally, environmentally....and people are honest and decent etc. You could spend a great day out here. I reckon you could in any town.

The discussion in parliament was also about child poverty wasn't it? So isn't it a crass statement for a minister to make? At least that's the way I see it. To castigate so blithely is quite an insult to the people who live there... isn't it?

Looks like it's something you simply agree with after you've reflected on it, enough on fact to probably agree with Cleverly? Unless you've posted a reply to be controversial?

I expect many people, all around the country won't be too bothered either and will have a similar view. There is insufficient care that places are failing. I guess one view is that it's the fault of the people. And that's one of the lines in the sand between left and right. Many folk have left behind their environment. No doubt Cleverly has. There was a feature about him on R4 this week. Lots to admire in a way but as one commentator stated he lacks "the heft" for high office.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by sonyc

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Nor me - you reckon it is do you? Surprised at the comment - there's another poster who hates Liverpool. Perhaps it's a north-south thing? Where I live has huge socio economic problems - once rich and prosperous (wool) but forging a new identity is / has been a challenge. Barnsley, Oldham, Rochdale, Rotherham, Burnley and so on are all struggling towns. They've all suffered from Labour Councils.

 

Fixed it for you.

[sonyc 5,542]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Fixed it for you.

Aye, that must explain it.

[Barbe bleu 845]

25 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Nor me - you reckon it is do you? Surprised at the comment 

Let's not pretend thst anyone who hasn't been sees the "on-tees" bit and thinks its going to be a nice place.

I've no idea what  it's like, but I do know that the North has been left behind since the 70s, maybe before. Levelling up and northern powerhouse were actually brilliant ideas that deserved and deserve better

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[Herman 9,922]

7 hours ago, sonyc said:

Aye, that must explain it.

Strange how he didn't mention the massive de-industrialisation of these areas compounded by even bigger cuts to local budgets and defunding. Not sure why they try to pin it onto local councils??

[sonyc 5,542]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Strange how he didn't mention the massive de-industrialisation of these areas compounded by even bigger cuts to local budgets and defunding. Not sure why they try to pin it onto local councils??

Local authorities are always the easy target. They are dependent on funding allocations and in the last decade many are having to decide just how to slice up where it's spent - the environment (communal grass cutting? no, cutback... libraries? ...not important - can they be run by volunteers? Training or Skilling?...first on the list to cut......and so on). It's not just Labour or Liberal but Conservative controlled authorities. Social care and children's services are the absolute priorities but still have to operate with huge cuts to management and running costs. Other  everyday stuff like street cleaning, parks ... you name it.

It dawns on you that the news is a commodity - Ukraine largely off the news to a bigger 'gig' in the middle east. Of course it matters ...but close to home, meanwhile, the long, slow decline in civic life in the UK continues.

It's laziness to accept stuff that people like Cleverly says. And that's me being generous. His comment is a drop in the ocean, hardly being worthy of reaction or like BB - well..."we all know any place with "on Tees" can't be a nice place". Our minds seemingly are made up. We haven't been nor even think of being curious about a place after such a comment by a leading politician . We accept it.

I used to get similar comments about the nearest city to me. Jools for one is a great example. It's become a music hall joke over the years. Having lived for over 40 years I'm allowed to take off my rose tinted glasses about it (there's a ton of things wrong) but still want to defend against ignorance and insult. So, I guess that's why  I'm 100% with the people who live in Stockton (must not forget the 'on Tees' bit !).

Easy to live somewhere nice and be dismissive of somewhere not?

Maybe a lot of folk couldn't give a f*** ... Just a symptom of a resigned acceptance? Or is it a class thing underneath.  I don't know. I suspect a bit of both (and more besides).

Until we get an understanding of what places are for, a purpose for each town, each city (whether that be for education, health, electronics etc) and invest heavily and over the long term in supporting them (yeah, tax) and re-skilling our populations then  the so-called Brexit dream of doing things for ourselves just might mean something. Taking back control. It won't happen though will it?  Far too big forces at play. But there is such a thing as political will. Patrick Grant is one such thinker having developed Community Clothing (he was on Question Time last night). His workers are local and the clothes a bit more expensive - he sources material also from the UK.

Successive governments have just forgotten people and prioritised money and the monied people...anyway will stop before this becomes some kind of personal treatise. I know nothing really but do care about stuff said by people who are meant to be running the country in high offices.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Local authorities are always the easy target. They are dependent on funding allocations and in the last decade many are having to decide just how to slice up where it's spent - the environment (communal grass cutting? no, cutback... libraries? ...not important - can they be run by volunteers? Training or Skilling?...first on the list to cut......and so on). It's not just Labour or Liberal but Conservative controlled authorities. Social care and children's services are the absolute priorities but still have to operate with huge cuts to management and running costs. Other  everyday stuff like street cleaning, parks ... you name it.

It dawns on you that the news is a commodity - Ukraine largely off the news to a bigger 'gig' in the middle east. Of course it matters ...but close to home, meanwhile, the long, slow decline in civic life in the UK continues.

It's laziness to accept stuff that people like Cleverly says. And that's me being generous. His comment is a drop in the ocean, hardly being worthy of reaction or like BB - well..."we all know any place with "on Tees" can't be a nice place". Our minds seemingly are made up. We haven't been nor even think of being curious about a place after such a comment by a leading politician . We accept it.

I used to get similar comments about the nearest city to me. Jools for one is a great example. It's become a music hall joke over the years. Having lived for over 40 years I'm allowed to take off my rose tinted glasses about it (there's a ton of things wrong) but still want to defend against ignorance and insult. So, I guess that's why  I'm 100% with the people who live in Stockton (must not forget the 'on Tees' bit !).

Easy to live somewhere nice and be dismissive of somewhere not?

Maybe a lot of folk couldn't give a f*** ... Just a symptom of a resigned acceptance? Or is it a class thing underneath.  I don't know. I suspect a bit of both (and more besides).

Until we get an understanding of what places are for, a purpose for each town, each city (whether that be for education, health, electronics etc) and invest heavily and over the long term in supporting them (yeah, tax) and re-skilling our populations then  the so-called Brexit dream of doing things for ourselves just might mean something. Taking back control. It won't happen though will it?  Far too big forces at play. But there is such a thing as political will. Patrick Grant is one such thinker having developed Community Clothing (he was on Question Time last night). His workers are local and the clothes a bit more expensive - he sources material also from the UK.

Successive governments have just forgotten people and prioritised money and the monied people...anyway will stop before this becomes some kind of personal treatise. I know nothing really but do care about stuff said by people who are meant to be running the country in high offices.

 

Cabinet meeting: We are making a real mess of Governing. What shall we do?

Answer: Decentralise. Its wha tthe people want.

Hooray

[Barbe bleu 845]

On 24/11/2023 at 02:38, TheDarkKnight said:

I said that Scotland has been asset stripped since the 70s and you pull me up over a typo?

OK. Tells me all I need to know.

Contact Samsung and mention that the Fold 3 has the default American spelling of Whisky: https://www.samsung.com/uk/support/contact/

I'm sure they'll be as enthalled about it as I am.

Cuz, ya know, in a world where Russia and Ukraine are still at war. Israel is committing genocide. The UK is going through a recession in all but name. Global warming is at a "no turning back" level. A phone autocorrect mishap is super uber important.

Like, totes.

I'll leave it to you to sort out the big issues batman.  Just to say it's great you  come here to the forum of what you regard as a foreign football team to share your progress. 

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[Herman 9,922]

 

[sonyc 5,542]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

 

Great stuff and it shows what northern folk (in this case the regional news team) will feel about Cleverly. There is quite a solidarity and hopefully within the next 12 months the north will give their views very certainly in the election.🤞

[Creative Midfielder 2,015]

6 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Great stuff and it shows what northern folk (in this case the regional news team) will feel about Cleverly. There is quite a solidarity and hopefully within the next 12 months the north will give their views very certainly in the election.🤞

Absolutely spot on, I can't think of a more inappropriately named politician than Cleverly, the guy is as thick as p"gsh"t.

But unfortunately, he is par for the course and it is genuinely scary that our last three Home Secretaries, Patel, Braverman & Cleverly have all been totally unfit for any ministerial office never mind one of the very top jobs - actually I think Grant Schapps might have been Home Secretary for a couple of days somewhere in that sequence but that just makes it worse! 🙄

No wonder with people like that in charge that the whole country is moving towards becoming a 's******e', and let's not forget that most of our rivers and coastal waters have already achieved that status.