New Tory Leader

[Herman 9,820]

 

[Daz Sparks 1,179]

59 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

I understand Steve Cooper is seething at the implied similarity, Priti however...

[Surfer 1,547]

7 hours ago, horsefly said:

Starmer ripping Johnson a new one after that appalling contemptuous fatuous "apology". 

And irrespective of the merit of any of BJ's policies, it was properly said. A full Nelsonian broadside.

What a joke. Even now as the latest mealy-mouthed apology stumbles out of one side of his mouth, a new set of deflections and distortions pour from the other.

But the damage is already done.

The public have made up their mind.

They don’t believe a word the Prime Minister says.

They know what he is.

As ever with this Prime Minister those close to him find themselves ruined and the institutions he vows to protect damaged.

Good ministers forced to walk away from public service.

The Chancellor’s career up in flames.

And the Leader of the Scottish Conservatives rendered pathetic.

For all those unfamiliar with this Prime Minister’s career.

This isn’t some fixable glitch in the system.

It’s the whole point.

It’s what he does.

It’s who he is.

He knows he’s dishonest and incapable of changing.

So he drags everybody else down with him.

The more people debase themselves, parroting his absurd defences, the more the public will believe all politicians are the same.

All as bad as each other.

And that suits this Prime Minister just fine.

Some members opposite seem oblivious to the Prime Minister’s game.

Some know what he’s up to but are too weak to act.

But others are gleefully playing the part the Prime Minister cast for them.

A minister on the radio this morning saying it’s the same as a speeding ticket.

No it’s not.

No one has ever broken down in tears because they couldn’t drive faster than 20mph outside a school.

Don’t insult the public with this nonsense.

But Mr Speaker, as it happens the last Minister who got a speeding ticket and then lied about it ended up in prison and I know because I prosecuted him.

And last week we were treated to a grotesque spectacle.

One of the Prime Minister’s loyal supporters accusing teachers and nurses of drinking in the staff room through lockdown.

Members opposite can associate themselves with that if they want.

But those of us who take pride in our NHS workers, our teachers and every other key worker who got us through those dark days will never forget their contempt.

Plenty didn’t agree with every rule the Prime Minister wrote.

But they followed them nonetheless because in this country we respect others, we put the greater good above narrow self-interest and we understand that the rules apply to all of us.

This morning, I spoke to John Robinson, a constituent for the Member for Lichfield, I want to tell his story.

When his wife died of Covid, John and his family obeyed the Prime Minister’s rules.

He didn’t see her in hospital, he didn’t hold her hand as she died.

Their daughters and grandchildren drove 100 miles up the motorway, clutching a letter from the funeral director in case they were questioned by the police.

They didn’t have a service in the church, John’s son-in-law stayed away because he would have been the forbidden seventh mourner.

Doesn’t the Prime Minister realise that John would have given the world to hold his dying wife’s hand, even if it was just for nine minutes?

But he didn’t.

Because he followed the Prime Minister’s rules.

Rules that we now know the Prime Minister blithely, repeatedly and deliberately ignored.

After months of insulting excuses, today’s half-hearted apology will never be enough for John Robinson.

If the Prime Minister had any respect for John and the millions like him who sacrificed everything to follow the rules he’d resign.

But he won’t.

Because he doesn’t respect John.

He doesn’t respect the sacrifice of the British public.

He is a man without shame.

Looking past the Member for Lichfield and the nodding dogs in the cabinet.

There are many decent, honourable members on the benches opposite.

Who do respect John Robinson.

Who do respect the British public.

They know the damage the Prime Minister is doing.

They know things can’t go on as they are.

And they know it is their responsibility to bring an end to this shameful chapter.

Today I urge them once again.

Don’t follow in the slipstream of an out of touch, out of control Prime Minister.

Put their conscience first, put their country first, put John Robinson first and remove the Prime Minister from office.

Bring decency, honesty and integrity back into our politics.

And stop the denigration of everything that this country stands for.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Surfer

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

 

A bit childish, Herman?

[horsefly 4,310]

Let's be clear, Johnson is claiming that the presence of his wife and interior designer inside the cabinet room with booze and a cake, was "mistaken" by him for a work meeting rather than an obvious breach of his own Covid laws. The choice for the UK public is to believe that he has lied to parliament yet again, or he is one of the thickest individuals currently living in this country. Either way he should resign or be thrown out.

[horsefly 4,310]

Expect Andrew Bridgen to be promoted to the cabinet shortly. He shows every attribute so admired by Johnson.

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/leicestershire-mp-lied-court-over-6969502

Leicestershire MP 'lied' in court over family firm dispute case, says High Court Judge

Andrew Bridgen was also found to have sent "abusive" messages to directors of the business

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Expect Andrew Bridgen to be promoted to the cabinet shortly. He shows every attribute so admired by Johnson.

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/local-news/leicestershire-mp-lied-court-over-6969502

Leicestershire MP 'lied' in court over family firm dispute case, says High Court Judge

Andrew Bridgen was also found to have sent "abusive" messages to directors of the business

Keeping up the good old Boris mantra of never letting the truth spoil a good lie.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

"Mr Speaker, we went through all this yesterday"

Interpreted as thank goodness I'm off the hook tomorrow and hopefully the Gray report will be published while I'm telling the Indians how to run a democracy.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

Boris, his ministers and the Brexit Tory party at large always remind me topically of Stalin in WW2.

He got rid of or 'disappeared' all the competent generals and academics (who oddly knew what they were doing but weren't 'on-board' with Stalin) & then when he needed competent generals he didn't have any. It took several years for the likes of Zhukov to re-emerge.

The analogy with Johnson and his yes men & women is strong. All the competent ones fled or left.

 

[Barbe bleu 832]

4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

He got rid of or 'disappeared' all the competent generals and academics (who oddly knew what they were doing but weren't 'on-board' with Stalin) & then when he needed competent generals he didn't have any. It took several years for the likes of Zhukov to re-emerge.

 

 

I think Zhukov only really lost favour after the war, certainly he was in favour in 1939 when he won what might be the most significant battle of the world war at Khalkhin Gol.

I only really say this because badger and ricardo are elsewhere discussing the topic and the idea that ehe war was lost before it started  and thought I'd throw my tuppence in.

[Barry Brockes 148]

As has been stated on here several times this clown will bluff and lie his way through whatever corruption and scandals are put before him. The man has no moral compass whatsoever.

https://news.upday.com/uk/pm-claims-partygate-scandal-matters-little-to-voters/?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

10 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think Zhukov only really lost favour after the war, certainly he was in favour in 1939 when he won what might be the most significant battle of the world war at Khalkhin Gol.

I only really say this because badger and ricardo are elsewhere discussing the topic and the idea that ehe war was lost before it started  and thought I'd throw my tuppence in.

No worries - my comments was a general one about Stalin dismissing those who knew what they were doing (aka Johnson and sensible old Tories   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49563357) half remembered from 30 years ago. I note Stalin removed Khuchov from his post in '41 for telling him unpalatable truths and then later he made his way back again as he was a very good general.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Barbe bleu 832]

2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

No worries - my comments was a general one about Stalin dismissing those who knew what they were doing (aka Johnson and sensible old Tories   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49563357) half remembered from 30 years ago. I note Stalin removed Khuchov from his post in '41 for telling him unpalatable truths and then later he made his way back again as he was a very good general.

You are right of course, the purges did take a lot of talent out at a critical point.  How much difference that made is a matter of conjecture if course.

I only really responded as i quite enjoyed the mini 'what if' discussion elsewhere and thought I would take the opportunity to float that idea that a battle that took place before the invasions of Poland was still the most critical of the entire war.

[A Load of Squit 5,213]

He can't control his own MP's, one of them said "each time Tories are asked to defend the indefensible, "part of us withers".

The rule about calling him a liar was suspended for this debate, it should be gone permanently.

 

[horsefly 4,310]

27 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

He can't control his own MP's, one of them said "each time Tories are asked to defend the indefensible, "part of us withers".

The rule about calling him a liar was suspended for this debate, it should be gone permanently.

 

It should be noted that, with a few honourable exceptions (such as William Wragg) , the rebellion of backbench Tories is motivated by pusillanimous self-interest rather than ethical principle. Having witnessed yet another poll (today's Times) showing over 70% of the voting public believing Johnson to be a liar, very few of them wanted to be seen by their constituents walking through the voting lobby in support of the law-breaking PM. Expect the Labour motion to be passed without a single "nay" in order to avoid a division, which would otherwise force Tory MPs to declare their support for the fraud.

[Herman 9,820]

Has brexit hardman Steve Baker done something decent? 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Met Police not issuing any more fines until after the May Elections.

Fcuking right wing, racist, Masonic bunch trying to help the "Party of (Breaking) Law and Order"

[Herman 9,820]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

Has brexit hardman Steve Baker done something decent? 

This explains it.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Labour have played a blinder. The investigation into Boris goes ahead because they didn't dare go to a vote and risk the growing number of rebels. And it goes ahead after publication of the Gray report. And when and if that is damning then he won't have much chance of defending his position. If the radio 4 report is true that the Met won't issue any more fines until after the May elections then the party may well by then have more than enough to throw him out.

[Van wink 2,994]

21 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Labour have played a blinder. The investigation into Boris goes ahead because they didn't dare go to a vote and risk the growing number of rebels. And it goes ahead after publication of the Gray report. And when and if that is damning then he won't have much chance of defending his position. If the radio 4 report is true that the Met won't issue any more fines until after the May elections then the party may well by then have more than enough to throw him out.

It's the final thrashings, he wont be around much longer. 

[horsefly 4,310]

The astonishing thing is that the government is so arrogant and dumb it didn't learn a single thing from its disastrous attempt to fix a parliamentary vote for their mate Owen Paterson after he was found guilty of blatant and "egregious" multiple breaches of parliamentary rules on lobbying. On that occasion they were forced into a shameful and humiliating U-turn within 24hrs of trying to enforce a three-line whip to save his neck. And here we are again with yet another shameful and humiliating U-turn  within 24hrs of trying to enforce a three-line whip to save the neck of a corrupt, unethical, law-breaking, lying PM.  

Edited April 21, 2022 by horsefly

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

6 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

You are right of course, the purges did take a lot of talent out at a critical point.  How much difference that made is a matter of conjecture if course.

I only really responded as i quite enjoyed the mini 'what if' discussion elsewhere and thought I would take the opportunity to float that idea that a battle that took place before the invasions of Poland was still the most critical of the entire war.

You may be right- but that's the trouble with 'What Ifs'.

I tend to take the view that there were many possible turning points in the European WW2. If Hitler in the BoB had concentrated on the airfields and not of been diverted to the bombing the cities then the RAF would have been swept from the skies - and all that entails. It was a close run thing as it was. Many in the UK would of accepted a 'peace' at that point which may of well been Hitlers plan.

Then again he didn't later need to declare war on the USA. I doubt the USA would of on Germany having just been attacked by the Japanese. 

All in all wars are won and lost by brilliant tacticians, luck and bad mistakes as above - and yes resources of all sorts.

[Indy 3,314]

3 hours ago, horsefly said:

The astonishing thing is that the government is so arrogant and dumb it didn't learn a single thing from its disastrous attempt to fix a parliamentary vote for their mate Owen Paterson after he was found guilty of blatant and "egregious" multiple breaches of parliamentary rules on lobbying. On that occasion they were forced into a shameful and humiliating U-turn within 24hrs of trying to enforce a three-line whip to save his neck. And here we are again with yet another shameful and humiliating U-turn  within 24hrs of trying to enforce a three-line whip to save the neck of a corrupt, unethical, law-breaking, lying PM.  

I have a real feeling that if pushed to the brink, can Boris call for special measures as UK is preparing for a potential war in Europe, would or could he just ring fence his position regardless?

[horsefly 4,310]

9 hours ago, Indy said:

I have a real feeling that if pushed to the brink, can Boris call for special measures as UK is preparing for a potential war in Europe, would or could he just ring fence his position regardless?

The horrible reality is that you wouldn't rule anything out when considering Johnson's egomaniacal desperation to save his own neck. However, poor local election results followed by inevitable further fines for breaching his own Covid laws should be enough to freak out the majority of those shameless Tory MPs currently still supporting a man they know to be a liar and fraud. A few feeble-minded runts like Rees-Mogg, Patel, and Dorries will continue to suckle at the ti*t of Johnson for they know no other way to sustain their own political existence, but the rest know that the stench of this rotting corpse now fills too many nostrils. 

Edited April 22, 2022 by horsefly

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Too many Tory MP's are at risk in their constituencies to counter too much more.

The state of our political Partys' leadership is woeful to say the least and with so many crises around I fear for the state of the Nation.

Edited April 22, 2022 by keelansgrandad

[Indy 3,314]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Too many Tory MP's are at risk in their constituencies to counter too much more.

The state of our political Partys' leadership is woeful to say the least and with so many crises around I fear for the state of the Nation.

Not only our nation, France might go with the Nationalistic Le Pen which will add to the pressure inside the EU and to the UK, you have Biden threatening every country not in line with US on Russia! We have a few countries around Europe now bickering at each other as national economic protection comes first to Russian sanctions.

The more we go down this road the more risk of further conflict in the future! I’d never believe we could have the world we do now! 
As for Boris, critical of India recently and now out there with his begging bowl to trade with the ailing UK!

[horsefly 4,310]

29 minutes ago, Indy said:

As for Boris, critical of India recently and now out there with his begging bowl to trade with the ailing UK!

Indeed! So craven and desperate is he to have some sort of trade deal to bring home, it was admitted that he did not raise the issue of India's relationship with Russia. So much for the heroic war leader!

[horsefly 4,310]

[Icecream Snow 762]

Not sure if we've done this already, but there's a very good article in the Guardian on Boris's origins at Oxford University and his runs for the Student Union presidency.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/apr/19/oxford-union-created-ruling-political-class-boris-johnson-michael-gove-theresa-may-rees-mogg?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Indeed! So craven and desperate is he to have some sort of trade deal to bring home, it was admitted that he did not raise the issue of India's relationship with Russia. So much for the heroic war leader!

Apparently, its neutrality is OK. How can you have a neutral opinion as a Nation? You either think its wrong or right what Russia is doing. There is no DMZ for goodness sake. But if you want another pointless trade deal that only benefits one side, then go for it. Yet another Boris Johnson Street in Mumbai?

India's stance is that Israel's position in the World is fine and it is only its "local" dispute with Palestinians that is causing problems. Funny how two Nation's with nuclear weapons have such an understanding.

And of course, a poll amongst Indian citizens showed they favour links to Russia.