Corona Virus main thread

[kirku 1,339]

1 minute ago, Yellowfuture said:

Suggestions that borders may be being closed, I wonder how much of the South African variant is already in the UK!!

Read up on the absolute farce in our airports compared to countries that have supressed it. It's shocking.

No checks, no control, nothing.

[Yellowfuture 71]

Just now, kirku said:

Read up on the absolute farce in our airports compared to countries that have supressed it. It's shocking.

No checks, no control, nothing.

Exactly, from the early stages we have been poor on this, plus we have known about the SA variant for a few weeks.

[kirku 1,339]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I didn't claim that it did, merely that the correctness of our decision to go for independent procurement, which many criticised at the time has been born out by events.

Pull the other one

[ricardo 7,413]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

The bare facts are that the UK's vaccine procurement programme has been a major success story and has been streets ahead of that of the E.U. Something a certain section on here just cannot accept.

Here's the quote, where is Brexit mentioned?

Edited January 5, 2021 by ricardo

[ricardo 7,413]

DELETED

Edited January 5, 2021 by ricardo

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Debt is going to be horrendous. Biggest charge is furlough payments. Do you want to stop them?

No. I want to stop Moy lying.

[BigFish 1,988]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

No. I want to stop Moy lying.

Good Luck with that KG

[kirku 1,339]

8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Here's the quote, where is Brexit mentioned?

I suppose your liking of the post I quoted from RTB which attributed the faster regulation to Brexit, one from yourself comparing the UK rollout to the EU, and then responding to my post with a line about members of the EMA "skipping off to Amsterdam" had nothing to do with Brexit?

Of course, you just meant they'd gone on a nice bicycle tour and visited a few fragrant coffee shops.

As I said, pull the other one.

[Herman 9,838]

50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

What proved of benefit was the decision not to take part in the E.U. scheme and organise our own procurement. The fact that we were still in the E.U. at the time is neither here nor there.

As explained a few times it cost far more for a couple of weeks headstart. It was of no great benefit. 

[BigFish 1,988]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

I suppose your liking of the post I quoted from RTB which attributed the faster regulation to Brexit, one from yourself comparing the UK rollout to the EU, and then responding to my post with a line about members of the EMA "skipping off to Amsterdam" had nothing to do with Brexit?

Of course, you just meant they'd gone on a nice bicycle tour and visited a few fragrant coffee shops.

As I said, pull the other one.

Massive deflection evercise underway from our Europhobic friends eager to swallow more of Johnson's boosterism. We have been here before with "game changing" apps & "world beating" track, trace & isolate systems. Both hailed with fanfares, both epic failures. There is no reason to suppose that the vaccination programme will not be a similar failure. The mistake is to confuse it with a strategy, the absence of which Johnson is trying to cover up. That is why the untested 12 week delay between doses is being attempted.

Even if the government hits 2 million doses a week, and that is a big if, it will be Easter before the vulnerable are vaccinated. That may reduce morbidity but what is the strategy to reduce the infection rate? There really doesn't appear to be one.

[kirku 1,339]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Massive deflection evercise underway from our Europhobic friends eager to swallow more of Johnson's boosterism. We have been here before with "game changing" apps & "world beating" track, trace & isolate systems. Both hailed with fanfares, both epic failures. There is no reason to suppose that the vaccination programme will not be a similar failure. The mistake is to confuse it with a strategy, the absence of which Johnson is trying to cover up. That is why the untested 12 week delay between doses is being attempted.

Even if the government hits 2 million doses a week, and that is a big if, it will be Easter before the vulnerable are vaccinated. That may reduce morbidity but what is the strategy to reduce the infection rate? There really doesn't appear to be one.

Absolutely.

I hope the vaccination rollout goes well and we get as many shots in arms as possible, but the track record is one of abject failure.

Over promise and under deliver is about the only thing you can rely on from Johnson.

[ricardo 7,413]

7 minutes ago, kirku said:

I suppose your liking of the post I quoted from RTB which attributed the faster regulation to Brexit, one from yourself comparing the UK rollout to the EU, and then responding to my post with a line about members of the EMA "skipping off to Amsterdam" had nothing to do with Brexit?

Of course, you just meant they'd gone on a nice bicycle tour and visited a few fragrant coffee shops.

As I said, pull the other one.

Skipping to Amsterdam certainly hindered the EMA, even they were surprised when a lot of their expertise declined to go with them and they were hoovered up by the MHRA.

The point RTB made about making our own decisions quicker is also one I endorse. Your assumption that I combined the two because I believed our decision was only enabled by Brexit will however remain just that, an incorrect assumption.

[Well b back 3,284]

Latest figures

BREAKINGFurther 830 Covid deaths reported in UK

A further 830 people have died within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test in the UK, the latest figures show.

It takes the total by this measure to 76,305.

The number of confirmed positive cases has also risen by 60,916.

[ricardo 7,413]

Local Situation

slightly down on yesterday, possibly levelling off but may need a few more days to be sure. ZOE App showing a similar picture.

Edited January 5, 2021 by ricardo

[Creative Midfielder 2,003]

8 hours ago, paul moy said:

A remoaner calling me deluded sounds a bit pot and kettle. 😎

I call you delusional for one simple reason - you regularly trot out absolute and very unpleasant nonsense and/or completely fake news in which you apparently believe, that in my book fits the description of delusional.

But if you are telling me that you don't actually believe in the tripe, malice and lies that you so frequently spout then I'm quite happy to switch to another, and less polite, description of you.

[Yellow Fever 3,841]

19 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Latest figures

BREAKINGFurther 830 Covid deaths reported in UK

A further 830 people have died within 28 days of a positive coronavirus test in the UK, the latest figures show.

It takes the total by this measure to 76,305.

The number of confirmed positive cases has also risen by 60,916.

A long time ago (last March), in a rational universe there were dire predictions if we let it rip of was it of 200,000 deaths. Doesn't look so far fetched now despite the odd late lock down and medical improvements.- Certainly will end up >> 100K.

Approaching 1000/day - 25000 per month  for Jan / Feb 

[ricardo 7,413]

Looking at the CMO's graphs, London and the South East are dropping and the East appears to have peaked. Other areas still rising.

[Herman 9,838]

Dido's army.🤨

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/01/05/government-total-number-private-sector-test-and-trace-consultants/

[sonyc 5,541]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

In France everyone eligible for a jab has to be counselled by a GP first. Then there is a cooling off period in case the person wishes to change their mind. 

With a system like that good luck with vaccinating your population anytime soon!

The system is quite different to the UK RTB. The doctors in France, certainly outside of Paris (often a rule unto itself) take a long time with patients. It's not unusual to wait maybe 1 (or even up to 2 hours) in reception even with an appointment. Doctors take a really long time talking to patients generally (I suppose it's what we used to call "bedside manner"). It's perhaps like going back 30/40 years to what it used to be like in the UK. That's not good in such a pandemic of course. You need to mobilise quickly.

That said, the French in rural / semi-rural areas have two hour lunches too. Most things shut down. It's cultural and it all depends what you value most I guess. So, I expect that the roll out there will be very slow. It was always going to be.

[sonyc 5,541]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Looking at the CMO's graphs, London and the South East are dropping and the East appears to have peaked. Other areas still rising.

This appears to be the case with a reversal of what happened in late autumn when the cases in the north were high.

We all watched crowding behaviour in London but it was Kent that seemed to suffer most. It makes me think that tiering works but only to a small degree and the virus simply finds a way through the population.

Perhaps this latest lockdown will prevent the shocking rise in new infections up here, that the south east has recently experienced? 

If those trends continue hopefully the sea is subsiding in the south now.

 

[sonyc 5,541]

17 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

A long time ago (last March), in a rational universe there were dire predictions if we let it rip of was it of 200,000 deaths. Doesn't look so far fetched now despite the odd late lock down and medical improvements.- Certainly will end up >> 100K.

Approaching 1000/day - 25000 per month  for Jan / Feb 

Indeed. Without lockdowns too, then who could say in all conscience, that those high figures forecast (much derided) would not have materialised?

[sonyc 5,541]

16 minutes ago, Herman said:

Dido's army.🤨

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/01/05/government-total-number-private-sector-test-and-trace-consultants/

Number 1 trending on Twitter too. Shows the anger.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

Interesting perspective in March you said

Another reason to be cautious is the memory of the thalidomide tragedy, in which a drug developed for cancer treatment caused malformed limbs in newborn babies. So there really cannot be any short cuts made in testing because there may be unforeseen consequences.

I fully support our emergency usage as the tests began 4 1/2 years ago. Others like Europe and Australia have decided to go with what they feel are no short cuts for full approval rather than emergency usage. No way is the best way only time will tell but if you make false promises your citizens will complain, we most of Europe and America made false promises.

If any EU nation complete their vaccination programme before us are you going to say Brexit was a disaster ? I’m not.

Have you noticed how he can’t force himself to use the words ‘ Sarah Gilbert ‘ or Andrew Pollard. 
 

I'm not sure what point you are making either. Are you claiming the UK made short-cuts in approving the vaccines and thus put lives in danger - as per thalidomide?

[ricardo 7,413]

I think I heard them say that we would be getting a regular update on vaccination numbers from next monday. The number on the official Coronavirus site has not been updated for nine days. Very poor communication.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, kirku said:

Thalidomide is not a vaccine.

It's like saying, "be careful about the Moderna jab, the US also invented that notorious napalm concoction"

Don't be silly. We all understand what we are talking about here  - the testing and authorisation process

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, Well b back said:

Hi K

I know that, that is what he said in March, when comparing to the Oxford vaccine.

I didn't. My response to Kirku applies to you also.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 hours ago, kirku said:

Entirely irrelevant to the point raised. Brexit provided absolutely no benefit to the UK in being the first to approve the vaccine.

Although, as I've just pointed out in the recent post, being first is asinine. It's speed of delivery that counts.

Speed of delivery doesn't count for FA if you put your in in November long after the other players put their orders in. Neither does it count if you've ordered a product that won't be available until much later in the year. Doing so is much much worse than the mismanagement of which you all accuse Johnson. The handling of procurement in the EU is a massive c*ck-up and the UK has dodged a bullet without a doubt.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

As explained a few times it cost far more for a couple of weeks headstart. It was of no great benefit. 

Ask your Dad about that.

[paul moy 235]

3 hours ago, kirku said:

The UK regulator, the MHRA, chief executive, Dr June Raine - "we have been able to authorise the supply of this vaccine using provisions under European law, which exist until 1 January".

The UK vaccine rollout (which is not world leading, Israel has vaccinated over 10x more per 100 people), was done entirely within the bounds of EU law. 

Unsurprisingly, your narrative is completely flawed.

 

Not flawed at all. We just had a more efficient method of testing the vaccine within the EU's legal parameters as we ran standard procedures in parallel rather than consecutively to speed the process. They could have done the same but it appears that they were just not as efficient or innovative as UK PLC.   Yet another good sign for our future outside of their narrow bureaucratic socialist realm.