Corona Virus main thread

[The Real Buh 3,432]

8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Nobody cares about The Real Buh being a virgin or Kick It Off failing to get on a grad scheme, not on this thread, how about you just agree to hate each other and move on? 

I don’t think you can call me a Virgin after what I did with his mother

[T 190]

7 minutes ago, Aggy said:

Presumably the tracing becomes relevant after restrictions are lifted? If we’re all at home then does tracing have much impact on anything? 
 

Also if i go into Sainsbury’s and three days later turns out I have coronavirus, does everyone who has been into that Sainsbury’s since then have to be traced and locked down? How are other places doing it?

I think it is still relevant before restrictions are lifted. because if you are traced you have to isolate and not go out at all until you are tested and cleared. 
 

They closed offices and factories where positive cases. The offices were specially disinfected. People you had meetings and worked directly with were traced.  
 

The risk from a casual contact is considered low. The app needs 1.5m contact for 15 mins to be considered a risk so you are unlikely to get it from passing contact or outside. Biggest risk is family and friends and people you are working directly with  for an extended time so it was customer meetings and fellow members of project teams working closely together rather than casual contacts. Now only eg 1 person per 2 person office only 2 in a lift and only 20 to 25 pc capacity. People still to work from home unless need access to special office equip. 
 

in Germany the hairdressers are opening tomorrow. Basically need appointment, wear masks, compulsory hair wash. No shaving or beauty treatment ie anything with really close contact and they have to keep a record for three weeks. No serving drinks. 
 

Just to give an idea of what might happen in UK. 

[T 190]

17 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Where is the evidence for that?

VW I don’t know if you have a second language and are following the news directly in another country but I am so no offence but unless you are I will obviously have more information. Germany has been doing tracing from the start so they have been following and tracing closely. There were significant outbreaks in Germany before the UK including where I work. 
 

Germany has a large manufacturing and export industry so there are a lot of regular direct flights and meetings between Germany and China. Tracing suggests Munich was the entry point into Europe and then it was traced to Italy. BMW had a number of cases at start of outbreak.
 

Secondly a lot of the outbreaks have been traced back to ski resorts. Hundreds of cases were traced back to the Ischgl ski resorts and various other ski resorts in Italy and Austria. Remember the first case in UK spread in a ski resort. The Germans go on mass to ski resorts in Itsly and Austria as close by in feb half term. 
 

So yes there were more cases and exposure in Germany at the start.but they controlled it a lot better than the UK. The UK government and CMO have admitted this so I’m not sure what the basis for denial is. Time for less denial and more learning. 

[Van wink 2,994]

4 minutes ago, T said:

VW I don’t know if you have a second language and are following the news directly in another country but I am so no offence but unless you are I will obviously have more information. Germany has been doing tracing from the start so they have been following and tracing closely. There were significant outbreaks in Germany before the UK including where I work. 
 

Germany has a large manufacturing and export industry so there are a lot of regular direct flights and meetings between Germany and China. Tracing suggests Munich was the entry point into Europe and then it was traced to Italy. BMW had a number of cases at start of outbreak.
 

Secondly a lot of the outbreaks have been traced back to ski resorts. Hundreds of cases were traced back to the Ischgl ski resorts and various other ski resorts in Italy and Austria. Remember the first case in UK spread in a ski resort. The Germans go on mass to ski resorts in Itsly and Austria as close by in feb half term. 
 

So yes there were more cases and exposure in Germany at the start.but they controlled it a lot better than the UK. The UK government and CMO have admitted this so I’m not sure what the basis for denial is. Time for less denial and more learning. 

That’s all opinion, I was asking if there was evidence of this :-

 “Germany should have been a lot worse affected than the UK because it was closer connected to hotspots. It wasn’t  because of test trace and isolate”

 

 

 

[Barbe bleu 826]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

If there is anything in this looks like the virus was circulating several weeks before we thought, confirming earlier suspicions.

David Chazan

@davidchazan

"Leading French doctor says France had its first #COVIDー19 case on December 27, nearly a month earlier than previously thought. He says presence of virus was revealed by testing patients who were hospitalised for pneumonia in December and January"

On this  note what ever happened to the cambridge university study was that looking at immunity levels.  Was big news then just disappeared.

[Barbe bleu 826]

Isnt it odd that buh started posting when bill realised that no one was actually seeing his posts?

As the real buh and bill are the same person I've had to block him as well.

 

[Barbe bleu 826]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

That’s all opinion, I was asking if there was evidence of this :-

 “Germany should have been a lot worse affected than the UK because it was closer connected to hotspots. It wasn’t  because of test trace and isolate”

 

 

 

I'm not  sure that there is any evidence for this.  It's an area of analysis completely sidelined by the higher profile issues as far as I can see.

I suspect that this is likely but dont really have much grounds for thinking so.

[Bill 1,788]

Further to the above we have Gove now contradicting the rightys on here

"Gove says there will be a time when the virus is under control when “deep and probing questions” about the government’s handling of the crisis can be posed.

“Undoubtedly this government, like all governments, will have made mistakes,” he admitted."

Which begs whether those mistakes were due to incompetence or warped ideology. And no snide attempt to put this in the future tense will disguise that mistakes have already been made. We don't need any future inquiry to determine that.

Just as the previous absurd attempts on here to portray genuine questioning as being motivated by supposed tribal loyalties have been easily refuted by having those same questions posed by the Mail, Times and Telegraph, by prominent right wing commentators and even Farage joining in, we shall expose the lies behind those mistakes.

[kick it off 1,952]

9 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Isnt it odd that buh started posting when bill realised that no one was actually seeing his posts?

As the real buh and bill are the same person I've had to block him as well.

 

Think Buh started posting when David Icke was taken off youtube. Make of that what you will.

[Van wink 2,994]

7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I'm not  sure that there is any evidence for this.  It's an area of analysis completely sidelined by the higher profile issues as far as I can see.

I suspect that this is likely but dont really have much grounds for thinking so.

Yeh it is a possibility, but in this case it was stated as fact. The German success to date was undoubtedly assisted by their decision and capacity to test on a large scale at an early stage, but there are many other variables that will have effected it around demographics, morbidity within the population etc.

[Bill 1,788]

Just now, kick it off said:

Think Buh started posting when David Icke was taken off youtube. Make of that what you will.

odd how Barbie crank knows so much about my posts when he has supposedly blocked me 🤣

or that he won't say who he was before...

so did he suddenly stumble across this forum, then read up on previous postings by others to know their stance on previous matters

or maybe he is just another coincidence one who just happens to use the same phraseology as hand crank, and the same misrepresentation of other's posts

however some might wonder if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

20 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

On this  note what ever happened to the cambridge university study was that looking at immunity levels.  Was big news then just disappeared.

This one - I was alluding to it earlier. Food for rational thought.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins

[T 190]

6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

That’s all opinion, I was asking if there was evidence of this :-

 “Germany should have been a lot worse affected than the UK because it was closer connected to hotspots. It wasn’t  because of test trace and isolate”

 

 

 

Sorry but you are just being silly and desperate now and embarrassing yourself.
.
I’m not an epidemiologist or virologist. I get my info from news reports. I have been reading the news reports from experts in Germany the UK and world news. Clearly you haven’t   There are lots of reports on the outbreaks in the ski resorts which were traced.back and accounted for 100s of cases. This is why  the average age of cases in Germany was low at the start because it was traced back to ski resorts and skiers tend to be younger    It is in the  news that Germany has a lot of cases traced back to ski resorts. It is in the news that Germany had cases traced back to China. It just common knowledge that Germans ski more and do more business with China. The early outbreaks in Germany were reported in the news. The govt said this morning that Germany has done better because of testing and tracing   The CMO has said it  Quite frankly it is utterly ridiculous and offensive to deny this   Of you don’t believe me then actually read the news yourself rather than try to glibly deny it because to be honest it makes you appear ignorant of what is going on outside the UK of you don’t know this because it has been reported in world news as well as local German news   I had another post disagreeing on the basis of I think I saw a headline in the Mail  it is so sad it is laughable  

Given your previous rude and offensive comments about Germans  it comes across that you are denying this on racial grounds and your denial of views expressed by the CMO and admitted by the government this morning are also less than praiseworthy  

  If you don’t believe me then just go back and research the news  but it seems you don’t like any information that contradicts with your view of the world The UK has performed poorly compared to Germany and  it is disrespectful to the dead and those working in the frontline to deny this rather than learn lessons   

 

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, T said:

Sorry but you are just being silly and desperate now and embarrassing yourself.
.
I’m not an epidemiologist or virologist. I get my info from news reports. I have been reading the news reports from experts in Germany the UK and world news. Clearly you haven’t   There are lots of reports on the outbreaks in the ski resorts which were traced.back and accounted for 100s of cases. This is why  the average age of cases in Germany was low at the start because it was traced back to ski resorts and skiers tend to be younger    It is in the  news that Germany has a lot of cases traced back to ski resorts. It is in the news that Germany had cases traced back to China. It just common knowledge that Germans ski more and do more business with China. The early outbreaks in Germany were reported in the news. The govt said this morning that Germany has done better because of testing and tracing   The CMO has said it  Quite frankly it is utterly ridiculous and offensive to deny this   Of you don’t believe me then actually read the news yourself rather than try to glibly deny it because to be honest it makes you appear ignorant of what is going on outside the UK of you don’t know this because it has been reported in world news as well as local German news   I had another post disagreeing on the basis of I think I saw a headline in the Mail  it is so sad it is laughable  

Given your previous rude and offensive comments about Germans  it comes across that you are denying this on racial grounds and your denial of views expressed by the CMO and admitted by the government this morning are also less than praiseworthy  

  If you don’t believe me then just go back and research the news  but it seems you don’t like any information that contradicts with your view of the world The UK has performed poorly compared to Germany and  it is disrespectful to the dead and those working in the frontline to deny this rather than learn lessons   

 

Nonsense, I was just asking you for the evidence to support your claim.

[Barbe bleu 826]

17 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yeh it is a possibility, but in this case it was stated as fact. The German success to date was undoubtedly assisted by their decision and capacity to test on a large scale at an early stage, but there are many other variables that will have effected it around demographics, morbidity within the population etc.

Absolutely agree.   

[Van wink 2,994]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This one - I was alluding to it earlier. Food for rational thought.

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/covid-19-genetic-network-analysis-provides-snapshot-of-pandemic-origins

"The new analysis also suggests that one of the earliest introductions of the virus into Italy came via the first documented German infection on 27 January, and that another early Italian infection route was related to a 'Singapore cluster'."

The new apparant case on 27 Dec in France may prompt other countries to reconsider the when they had their first cases.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

"The new analysis also suggests that one of the earliest introductions of the virus into Italy came via the first documented German infection on 27 January, and that another early Italian infection route was related to a 'Singapore cluster'."

The new apparant case on 27 Dec in France may prompt other countries to reconsider the when they had their first cases.

Yes - science not rhetoric or politics digging away to get to the truth. 

However it should surprise nobody that it my of arrived earlier than thought - same indeed as for China - as it wouldn't have been recognized as new novel by anybody until a few odd cases had aroused suspicion - much as happened in Lombardy.

[T 190]

4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Nonsense, I was just asking you for the evidence to support your claim.

VW Sorry but his is just getting ridiculous now. It is in the news since February Just google it yourself if you don’t believe me. You can always use google translate to get an idea if you don’t have language skills  

Just because you haven’t read non UK news and don’t know what is going on outside UK doesn’t make something wrong. You have made your offensive views on Germans clear so I appreciate it is difficult for you to accept. 

 

There are lots of German news reports on this going back to February  Just try googling Ischgl Coronavirus BMW coronavirus. I had friends stuck in Tirol Austria for weeks as one of the first places to be locked down. There was a another German company which works with China which was closed down whose name I forget now. So it all kicked off big time in Germany before UK. I was sent home 2 weeks  before the UK lock down so it kicked off earlier. It is just fact that China and ski resorts were  a major source and Germany has more contacts with China and ski resorts. The Germans traced the cases so they know where they come from. 
 

 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - science not rhetoric or politics digging away to get to the truth. 

However it should surprise nobody that it my of arrived earlier than thought - same indeed as for China - as it wouldn't have been recognized as new novel by anybody until a few odd cases had aroused suspicion - much as happened in Lombardy.

Certainly arriving at the same time as seasonal flu could well have kept it under the radar.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, T said:

VW Sorry but his is just getting ridiculous now. It is in the news since February Just google it yourself if you don’t believe me. You can always use google translate to get an idea if you don’t have language skills  

Just because you haven’t read non UK news and don’t know what is going on outside UK doesn’t make something wrong. You have made your offensive views on Germans clear so I appreciate it is difficult for you to accept. 

 

There are lots of German news reports on this going back to February  Just try googling Ischgl Coronavirus BMW coronavirus. I had friends stuck in Tirol Austria for weeks as one of the first places to be locked down. There was a another German company which works with China which was closed down whose name I forget now. So it all kicked off big time in Germany before UK. I was sent home 2 weeks  before the UK lock down so it kicked off earlier. It is just fact that China and ski resorts were  a major source and Germany has more contacts with China and ski resorts. The Germans traced the cases so they know where they come from. 
 

 

I've read extensively on the subject in news and technical papers, all I wanted to know was whether you had any evidence to back up what you had said. Research, critical analysis by epidemiologists with peer review, that was all. Im not aware of such studies, I thought you may have been but clearly not.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

37 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Think Buh started posting when David Icke was taken off youtube. Make of that what you will.

What is the actual point of removing David Icke from YouTube?

I find it quite concerning that people get erased from public view for simply sharing unconventional opinions, even that moron Tommy Robinson. 

Its quite scary that we live in a world where you can basically be erased. 

People criticise China's social credit system but the West has started performing coordinated blacklisting of people with non-compliant opinions. Its scary, people guilty of thoughtcrimes or wrongthink.

Edited May 3, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

7 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Certainly arriving at the same time as seasonal flu could well have kept it under the radar.

Asymptomatic cases - mild cases - nobody would know (even now in the UK !)

[Bill 1,788]

16 minutes ago, T said:

Sorry but you are just being silly and desperate now and embarrassing yourself.

  If you don’t believe me then just go back and research the news  but it seems you don’t like any information that contradicts with your view of the world The UK has performed poorly compared to Germany and  it is disrespectful to the dead and those working in the frontline to deny this rather than learn lessons  

That's just hand crank. or whatever name he is using. Been doing it for years.

Misrepresents(lies about) what you posted and then argues with that instead

 

Meanwhile, the government is following the line Bill took way back in March that much of the relaxation will not be some switch being flicked - but a slow reduction of the enforcement, and that it will be far sooner than most thought. Schools look to start opening by June 1st, many shops are now opening as are takeaways and businesses.

Gove now agrees, as " Gove also suggested the easing of lockdown restrictions will be “staged” and will not be a “flick of the switch”. "

So I would suggest that if we have made this much progress in a few weeks, then where will we be in another six weeks ?

Maybe it is time for some on here to turn to palmistry instead 🤣

[Bill 1,788]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

What is the actual point of removing David Icke from YouTube?

I find it quite concerning that people get erased from public view for simply sharing unconventional opinions, even that moron Tommy Robinson. 

Its quite scary that we live in a world where you can basically be erased. 

People criticise China's social credit system but the West has started performing coordinated blacklisting of people with non-compliant opinions. Its scary, people guilty of thoughtcrimes or wrongthink.

stop making up stuff

it is not scary, just businesses ensuring that they are not held accountable for publishing lies...dangerous lies at that

try checking the rules that the Pinkun has in that regard

what is scary is that there are people like you out there all to willing to peddle such lies and misrepresentation

[Herman 9,765]

8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

What is the actual point of removing David Icke from YouTube?

I find it quite concerning that people get erased from public view for simply sharing unconventional opinions, even that moron Tommy Robinson. 

Its quite scary that we live in a world where you can basically be erased. 

People criticise China's social credit system but the West has started performing coordinated blacklisting of people with non-compliant opinions. Its scary, people guilty of thoughtcrimes or wrongthink.

I understand where you are coming from but he was spreading dangerous misinformation this time rather than simple conspiracies. And a lot more were listening and believing his nonsense. His words could have lead to more deaths and he needed to shut up.

Unfortunately the fact he has been shut up will lead to people thinking that he was shut up for telling the truth.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

4 hours ago, Surfer said:

Is that true? If so is that because STEM jobs were shipped overseas, or Britons don’t want to study STEM subjects as it is too hard, or the cost of studying STEM subjects has gone through the roof in the UK?

in Germany, university level tuition in STEM is free, in Holland under 2,000 Euros per year. 

yet according to Times Higher Education Supplement no German or Dutch university gets in the top 30 rankings for 2020. Compared to six UK universities.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 hours ago, Surfer said:

Ah, well. I would mention that to your local Tory MP. It's been right wing political parties that have encouraged offshoring of jobs for decades with their tax avoidance policies. The problem is not "soft" it's "greed" ....

So you must be delighted that your friend Donald Trump has policies to bring US jobs back onshore?

[T 190]

Sorry VW but it like banging head against a brick wall !  This is really important because all the time people deny they will not learn the lessons so I will try again and try to make it simpler. 
 

 You clearly haven’t read it otherwise You would not argue. and that is partly understandable to some extent if you are not following German news and don’t speak German but it is also on the BBC world and BBC Europe sites. There is not one report.

we know that it started in China. We know that Germany has a lot more interaction than UK with China because of German manufacturing  export economy basis  so therefore it has more exposure. We know some of the earliest outbreaks in Europe   were in Germany traced back to China.  

 

we know that ski resorts was the major reported cause of spread  of the disease across Europe based on tracing. We know that Germans go skiing to Austria and Italy. a lot more than UK. not least because if you care to look at a map they are next door.  Therdore we know that Germany had greater exposure to the major source of spread and this is backed up by tracing  

Therefore we know Germany had a lot more exposure to the source and to the major cause of spread. It is not opinion. These are all facts backed up by contact tracing as are the earlier reported outbreaks in Germany.
 

You don’t have any evidence to refute these facts.im afraid so time to move on from deflect and denial. We know the UK has performed poorly and there is no escaping it and therefore the UK needs to learn rather than deflect and deny. Clapping is simply not good enough. The UK needs to accept and learn for the sake of those dying and the front line workers. 

[Bill 1,788]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

I understand where you are coming from but he was spreading dangerous misinformation this time rather than simple conspiracies. And a lot more were listening and believing his nonsense. His words could have lead to more deaths and he needed to shut up.

Unfortunately the fact he has been shut up will lead to people thinking that he was shut up for telling the truth.

he has not been 'shut up' as he is free to peddle his lies on his own website, and by other means

but there is legal accountability to those publishing such dangerous stuff

and so those responsible for publishing.... youtube, facebook etc have taken steps to avoid that liability

also it doesn't do their corporate image any good to have it associated with such offensive stuff - hence 'my little fascist' and the other ragbag of rightwing nut jobs being removed

just as you are free to walk about the UK carrying a **** flag - but you are not being 'erased' if MCdonalds, pubs and others refuse you entry with that flag

it's their choice

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

I understand where you are coming from but he was spreading dangerous misinformation this time rather than simple conspiracies. And a lot more were listening and believing his nonsense. His words could have lead to more deaths and he needed to shut up.

Unfortunately the fact he has been shut up will lead to people thinking that he was shut up for telling the truth.

Can't say I've paid attention, he's always been a fruitcake, but perhaps the world needs to think of a different way to deal with eccentrics and oddballs which isn't basically suppressing them entirely. Nick Griffin going on Question Time to show the world what a nutter he is was actually damaging to the BNP, for example.

Perhaps a massive flashing light saying "this person is know to spread disinformation" and an algorithm which doesn't give them too much exposure. 

Its the equivalent of banning somebody from the pub for talking rubbish instead of just ripping the p*ss out of them. 

And David Icke has been ridiculed for years but a hell of a lot of the stuff that he reported about peados was spot on, he was writing about Jimmy Saville for years and the mainstream media never touched that issue.