Corona Virus main thread

[Aggy 752]

13 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I am a little more hopeful.  I dont think an app would stop any one with contact but no symptoms from doing what they had to do but some of the less important social activities might be stopped until testing is carried out, if it is rapid. 

The worst case scenario might be if just having the app gives people an odd sense of security and actually subconsciously  encourages them to enter the mixing pot.

 

 

I think the success of it will definitely tie In with the availability of tests. if you get a notification that you’ve been near someone who’s infected, then have to wait a fortnight to get a test, then find out you haven’t had it, and then have to go through the same thing happening multiple times, you’re going to get fed up of sitting around for a fortnight waiting each time. And if you only cut out non essential socialising in the meantime then you could still have potentially infected dozens of people. Whereas if it’s a case of only waiting a day or two at most for a test, people would be more willing to err on the side of caution.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

So you wont discuss Racism but want to discuss Trident TvB? 

That ,my fellow poster, is selective whataboutery.

That is the Hypocrisy of Politics, Lefty and Righty. 👍

Think you may have missed my point somewhat corky. 

I'd be happy to discuss racism if I understood what an earth the relevance was to our governments response to coronavirus, or to my first post, or of wider relevance to this thread, I'm assuming I must have missed something somewhere further back in a very long and ongoing thread.

That must have been somebody else's conversation, and I didn't want to hijack it and I didn't understand the context in which it entered his reply to me. I can only assume that he was previously having a discussion about racism with somebody else, and that he felt I had something to contribute to that discussion. I don't, because I didn't see it. 

I was more interested in discussing our governments response to coronavirus, which made up the bulk of the post of his that I initially replied to. 

I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

Edited May 4, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Think you may have missed my point somewhat corky. 

I'm be happy to discuss racism if I understood what an earth the relevance was to our governments response to coronavirus, I'm assuming I missed something somewhere further back in a very long and ongoing thread.

That must have been somebody else's conversation, and I didn't want to hijack it and I didn't understand the context in which it entered his reply to me.

I hope that makes it a bit clearer.

Well, not really. But I'm happy not to get involved in Political discussion. I am left leaning but completely not Party defined. I believe party politics gets in the way of correct ,swift  decisions and government.  See my earler post ref Herd Immunity/Herd mentality,Protagonists baying at each other over the fence while the gates of opportunity lie open, unnoticed in the corner of the field. 

Regarding the cold war, having been part of BAOR in the early eighties, all the,Russians had to do to beat the 'West' was fly over  bases in W Germany spraying a solvent that dissolves Duct Tape, the 3rd Armoured Division would have literally fallen apart , I suspect the  other Divisions were similarly' held together'.......it was a shambles and the only thing that saved us was that the Russians were equally ill equipped. Any war would have quickly disintegrated into farce as neither side would have reached the battlefield intact.

 

 

[Mark .Y. 351]

36 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I think the success of it will definitely tie In with the availability of tests. if you get a notification that you’ve been near someone who’s infected, then have to wait a fortnight to get a test, then find out you haven’t had it, and then have to go through the same thing happening multiple times, you’re going to get fed up of sitting around for a fortnight waiting each time. And if you only cut out non essential socialising in the meantime then you could still have potentially infected dozens of people. Whereas if it’s a case of only waiting a day or two at most for a test, people would be more willing to err on the side of caution.

I agree with this, if I get a warning and know I can drive into the test centre off the motorway going into Portsmouth (less than 10 mins from my house) I would go and get tested - why wouldn't you ?

Maybe local GPs and pharmacies could hold a large supply of the home testing kits and somebody (one of the volunteer army) can drop one off to your house.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Well, not really.

His post discussed a couple of things:

1). Criticism of our governments response to coronavirus.

2). A weird couple of sentences that I didn't understand about racism.

I replied to his post discussing number 1, but didn't have a clue what the context of number 2 was. That's why I opted out of being dragged into that part of the discussion.

Is it clearer now? 

Edited May 4, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I agree with this, if I get a warning and know I can drive into the test centre off the motorway going into Portsmouth (less than 10 mins from my house) I would go and get tested - why wouldn't you ?

Maybe local GPs and pharmacies could hold a large supply of the home testing kits and somebody (one of the volunteer army) can drop one off to your house.

The dud kits that they initially ordered were going to be available to order (if they worked) from Amazon and Tesco online I believe, which are the two companies with the most widely established and capable logistics networks in the country (bar actual postal delivery services I'd guess).

Edited May 4, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Is it clearer now? 

Crystal. 

[Mark .Y. 351]

15 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The dud kits that they initially ordered were going to be available to order (if they worked) from Amazon and Tesco online I believe, which are the two companies with the most widely established and capable logistics networks in the country (bar actual postal delivery services I'd guess).

Oh right, didn't know that, seems a shame to pay people to do it when there is a large volunteer force happy to do it for nothing.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Oh right, didn't know that, seems a shame to pay people to do it when there is a large volunteer force happy to do it for nothing.

I think I'm right in saying that you would be expected to pay a small fee to obtain the test, as in you actually purchase it from Amazon or Tesco. 

Hopefully means tested though like prescriptions because I'd hate to think there are people out there that couldn't afford to buy a coronavirus test!

They should mobolise the volunteer army though, that does sound like a good idea. But then again, probably lots of newly unemployed people and self-employed people who can't gets supplies who would value getting paid for an honest days work?

Edited May 4, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Mark .Y. 351]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think I'm right in saying that you would be expected to pay a small fee to obtain the test, as in you actually purchase it from Amazon or Tesco. 

Hopefully means tested though like prescriptions because I'd hate to think there are people out there that couldn't afford to buy a coronavirus test!

They may mobolise the volunteer army though, that does sound like a good idea.

I would really hope you didn't have to pay for it, even if it was means tested. Too big an issue to muck about with, just make them available to all for nothing. Let's face it, we as the taxpayers are going to pay for it in the end so just make sure nobody goes without and we'll pick up the tab later.

[Aggy 752]

9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think I'm right in saying that you would be expected to pay a small fee to obtain the test, as in you actually purchase it from Amazon or Tesco. 

Hopefully means tested though like prescriptions because I'd hate to think there are people out there that couldn't afford to buy a coronavirus test!

They should mobolise the volunteer army though, that does sound like a good idea. But then again, probably lots of newly unemployed people and self-employed people who can't gets supplies who would value getting paid for an honest days work?

No major issue with paying for it. Just need to make sure it’s not only affordable for everyone, but also order-able for everyone. Again thinking of the elderly predominantly, a number of whom won’t have or use internet. 
 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Has old Van Tam only got the one suit? They should pay him more.

[Van wink 2,994]

16 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Has old Van Tam only got the one suit? They should pay him more.

He has many suits......but they are all the same!

[Herman 9,717]

Tracking app to be trialled on an island that has only just got electricity. Should go well.😀

[Mark .Y. 351]

35 minutes ago, Aggy said:

No major issue with paying for it. Just need to make sure it’s not only affordable for everyone, but also order-able for everyone. Again thinking of the elderly predominantly, a number of whom won’t have or use internet. 
 

Very true, they will still need to be able to order it over the phone I suppose, guess that might be easiest done through their local GP as that is who they will be familiar with calling already.

[ricardo 7,348]

30 minutes ago, Herman said:

Tracking app to be trialled on an island that has only just got electricity. Should go well.😀

Pitcairn?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

25 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Very true, they will still need to be able to order it over the phone I suppose, guess that might be easiest done through their local GP as that is who they will be familiar with calling already.

Surely not through GPs or their offices? They have enough on their plate atm imo.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Pitcairn?

South Georgia? 

[Mark .Y. 351]

1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Surely not through GPs or their offices? They have enough on their plate atm imo.

Really ?  I didn't think the GPs were particularly overstretched at the moment, especially as they are doing a lot of telephone diagnosis now, certainly according to the email update ours here doesn't seem to be.

For those that are, maybe a separate dedicated line ??

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

2 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Really ?  I didn't think the GPs were particularly overstretched at the moment, especially as they are doing a lot of telephone diagnosis now, certainly according to the email update ours here doesn't seem to be.

For those that are, maybe a separate dedicated line ??

Fair enough,  just couldn't see the need to involve them in what is essentially  a mail order request.

[Mark .Y. 351]

1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Fair enough,  just couldn't see the need to involve them in what is essentially  a mail order request.

Yeh, I was just trying to address the problem of the elderly population who might not have internet access or a smartphone and could need some way of ordering a testing kit - maybe the local pharmacies would be a better bet ??

[Herman 9,717]

12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Pitcairn?

Wight.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Wight.

Welease Woger!!

[Van wink 2,994]

Poor Woy

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

12 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Yeh, I was just trying to address the problem of the elderly population who might not have internet access or a smartphone and could need some way of ordering a testing kit - maybe the local pharmacies would be a better bet ??

Absolutely,  low tech and familiar is the way to go. I know  that my mam (93) would not be able for online. 

[Surfer 1,547]

On 03/05/2020 at 08:13, Surfer said:

First off, let's all agree that UK testing is ramping up - quickly or less quickly I'll leave to other to debate. 

The best statistic to measure will be "excess deaths" but it's not available yet so this will have to do. 

Well we do have a source for excess mortality - and it does not make good reading for anyone in the UK. Combined with Belgium continuing fall in reported daily deaths it suggests that we are performing worse than any other European nation. 

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#excess-mortality

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

11 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Well we do have a source for excess mortality - and it does not make good reading for anyone in the UK. Combined with Belgium continuing fall in reported daily deaths it suggests that we are performing worse than any other European nation. 

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/#excess-mortality

Looks like we did a pretty good job of achieving a flat curve, wasn't avoiding a sharp peak and to keep ICU wards under full capacity the point of lockdown? We only got to 80 percent capacity nationally I believe (not including nightingale). We certainly didn't get the point where we had to decide who to treat and who not to treat like Italy, so I object to the idea that we've performed worse than all other EU countries. 

We didn't have to decide not to treat over 60's like Italy, and we didn't get care workers abandoning residents like Spain, we haven't had lockdown protests like Germany. We've done ok as a nation, I'm proud. 

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Aggy 752]

16 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Absolutely,  low tech and familiar is the way to go. I know  that my mam (93) would not be able for online. 

Some sort of primary care or pharmacy would be best imo. I’d agree GPs probably aren’t the best bet - presumably you’d have to actually go to the GP to pick it up, which defeats the idea of isolating until you’ve been tested. But I like the idea of having some sort of medical or pharmacist input - otherwise you could end up with some numpties who don’t need tests ordering them on Amazon, or ordering more than they need. 
 

My guess would be local pharmacies are the best bet - not sure but I’d guess a lot of them do a delivery service already or would be able to do so if they are pharmacies within a supermarket for instance.

[Bill 1,788]

" Well we do have a source for excess mortality - and it does not make good reading for anyone in the UK "

That measure is still only a rough indication - given that it would need to be broken down by comparing work/road related deaths.

How many deaths are those who would have died due to 'illness' but Covid sped that process ?

What is of far more importance is working out how those who have recently died contracted the virus ie is there any activity that be focussed on ? Though I suspect this being done, but not made public so as not to cause alarm or inappropriate behaviour.

And any comment about the number of deaths should not be seen as dismissive of any death. Each one has a tragic story attacked to it. With such a short time from diagnosis to death and the current lockdown compounding the helplessness of those left behind I would suggest that we may start looking at that 'forgotten army'.

A group of people who like WW1/WW2 have been obliged to 'get on with it'. This will stay with so many for the rest of their days.

[Van wink 2,994]

6 hours ago, T said:

Today Austria estimating 5pc infection rate based on a random sample. Germany estimating 2pc based on extensive testing of a hot spot. I think you can forget natural herd immunity and also suggests track and trace has a dramatic effect. UK estimated 5pc last I saw but think that was based on modelling rather than testing. 

Not sure what study you are looking at in Germany but the Heinsberg study showed a 15% infection rate.

https://www.uni-bonn.de/news/111-2020