New Labour Leader

[dylanisabaddog 4,983]

39 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

Am I to assume that you believe anybody who doesn’t vote the same doesn’t care for others? 

I see very little or no care from the current Government. 

[Nuff Said 5,176]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

But that wasn’t what was implied by Nuff. They basically said they vote for Labour irrespective of what policies they propose

That wasn’t what I said. “Implied” = your confirmation bias.

I talked about values and experience. I reject the values of the right and I reject the right based on the results of their government of the UK over my adult lifetime.

I also said things are not black and white. If a party doesn’t match my values and they have demonstrated they do not deliver for the benefit of this country, I wouldn’t vote for them. 

However, I then raised the point that the apparent binary nature of what I’ve said may be influenced by the choice our electoral system forces us into. So while Labour don’t offer everything I would like to see in a government, in a simple Tory or Labour decision which is where most of us will be when the election is eventually called, I will be voting for Labour. I acknowledge that this has been true my whole adult life so it has become ingrained, but I am aware of that and the influences that have formed that.

 

Where is the lack of critical thinking or focus on personality in that? It’s all in your head, or perhaps your own lack of critical thinking.

[Fen Canary 866]

Just now, dylanisabaddog said:

I see very little or no care from the current Government. 

I won’t argue with that. Trouble is I see no real difference between the policies of them or Labour currently, their simply arguing over who would implement the same manifesto more competently

[dylanisabaddog 4,983]

4 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I won’t argue with that. Trouble is I see no real difference between the policies of them or Labour currently, their simply arguing over who would implement the same manifesto more competently

That is purely the fault of the Conservatives. In 2010 they falsely accused the Labour Party of crashing the economy when it was clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense. 

Between 2010 and the start of Covid the National Debt had somehow increased by 250% despite almost 10 years of austerity. We were the only major economy in the world to adopt that strategy and it failed. 

They also gave us Brexit which has again trashed the economy. Obviously they didn't cause Covid but my God they did waste an awful lot of money. 

So today we are roughly the equivalent of a country mortgaged to the hilt, up to it's overdraft limit and maxed out on its credit cards. That is the fault of a corrupt and wholly incompetent group of people. 

Sunak as Chancellor borrowed huge amounts of money on floating rates to pay for Covid because he thought interest rates wouldn't increase. Truss saw to that. 

Johnson sacked probably the 17 most capable and intelligent people in his Party because they didn't agree with him over Brexit. They are proved right on a daily basis. 

The parties don't have different policies because we can't afford policies. We can't even afford to build a railway. 

In summary, you don't have a choice of policies unless you vote Green or BNP. That is because of the Tories and it's why anyone in their right mind should vote against them. 

Actually you do have one choice and that's on immigration. You can send one in 50 to Rwanda at a cost of £1.5m EACH, or do it the Labour way and

Pay that money out to the French to put a stop to it and provide 'special services' to help them. 

Labour has also suggested a 'quiet word' with Turkey to stop them manufacturing the boats. If I was dealing with it I'd call in their ambassador and ask him if he felt lucky but I suspect Starmer would be more polite. 

If that all failed, £600m buys an awful lot of boats.....

In case you haven't realised, the Rwanda policy isn't designed to gain votes, it's to stop them losing even more votes to Reform. They are genuinely concerned that tactical voting is going to leave them in 3rd place. 

Sorry to have a rant but you can't complain about the lack of Labour policies. They wanted to make us the scientific centre of Europe and a world leader in green tech. Liz Truss wrecked that ambition in 6 weeks. 

[DraytonBoy 160]

How anyone could consider voting for the current incarnation of the Tory party baffles me, they are completely out of touch with reality and fixated on trying to stop a few thousand people crossing the channel when legal immigration is rocketing. The crazy thing about the Rwanda policy is that Labour will simply reverse it at the end of the year, just think what could have been done with the tens of millions spent so far.

[sonyc 5,541]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/labour-promises-rail-nationalisation-within-five-years-of-coming-to-power?

 

Quite some news and I'm a bit pleased about this. 

At last a positive story in terms of starting to put the country right. Within 5 years...but the destination is good (pun intended 😉).

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 23/04/2024 at 13:57, dylanisabaddog said:

That is purely the fault of the Conservatives. In 2010 they falsely accused the Labour Party of crashing the economy when it was clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense. 

Between 2010 and the start of Covid the National Debt had somehow increased by 250% despite almost 10 years of austerity. We were the only major economy in the world to adopt that strategy and it failed. 

They also gave us Brexit which has again trashed the economy. Obviously they didn't cause Covid but my God they did waste an awful lot of money. 

So today we are roughly the equivalent of a country mortgaged to the hilt, up to it's overdraft limit and maxed out on its credit cards. That is the fault of a corrupt and wholly incompetent group of people. 

Sunak as Chancellor borrowed huge amounts of money on floating rates to pay for Covid because he thought interest rates wouldn't increase. Truss saw to that. 

Johnson sacked probably the 17 most capable and intelligent people in his Party because they didn't agree with him over Brexit. They are proved right on a daily basis. 

The parties don't have different policies because we can't afford policies. We can't even afford to build a railway. 

In summary, you don't have a choice of policies unless you vote Green or BNP. That is because of the Tories and it's why anyone in their right mind should vote against them. 

Actually you do have one choice and that's on immigration. You can send one in 50 to Rwanda at a cost of £1.5m EACH, or do it the Labour way and

Pay that money out to the French to put a stop to it and provide 'special services' to help them. 

Labour has also suggested a 'quiet word' with Turkey to stop them manufacturing the boats. If I was dealing with it I'd call in their ambassador and ask him if he felt lucky but I suspect Starmer would be more polite. 

If that all failed, £600m buys an awful lot of boats.....

In case you haven't realised, the Rwanda policy isn't designed to gain votes, it's to stop them losing even more votes to Reform. They are genuinely concerned that tactical voting is going to leave them in 3rd place. 

Sorry to have a rant but you can't complain about the lack of Labour policies. They wanted to make us the scientific centre of Europe and a world leader in green tech. Liz Truss wrecked that ambition in 6 weeks. 

The bit in bold made me chuckle. I might even be a bit cheeky and suggest that is the Trump method of diplomatic relations but then you wouldn't be able to agree with me.

[DraytonBoy 160]

8 hours ago, sonyc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/labour-promises-rail-nationalisation-within-five-years-of-coming-to-power?

 

Quite some news and I'm a bit pleased about this. 

At last a positive story in terms of starting to put the country right. Within 5 years...but the destination is good (pun intended 😉).

 

The rolling stock will remain in private hands and continue to be leased so it's not a full re-nationalisation.

[dylanisabaddog 4,983]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The bit in bold made me chuckle. I might even be a bit cheeky and suggest that is the Trump method of diplomatic relations but then you wouldn't be able to agree with me.

I think you're a bit confused. I think your worry is that the people in those boats manage to get here. My worry is that they don't. 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

9 hours ago, sonyc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/24/labour-promises-rail-nationalisation-within-five-years-of-coming-to-power?

 

Quite some news and I'm a bit pleased about this. 

At last a positive story in terms of starting to put the country right. Within 5 years...but the destination is good (pun intended 😉).

 

Everyone will be pleased about this. It must go hand in hand with radical reform too of outdated working practices.

[Herman 9,823]

59 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

The rolling stock will remain in private hands and continue to be leased so it's not a full re-nationalisation.

Yes, everything, including the kitchen sinks, have been sold off over the years so it will be the ones running out of contract. 

[DraytonBoy 160]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

It must go hand in hand with radical reform too of outdated working practices.

This will be an acid test of how Labour deals with union disputes should the rail strikes continue beyond the election.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

6 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I think you're a bit confused. I think your worry is that the people in those boats manage to get here. My worry is that they don't. 

It's good to see your honesty in admitting that you want to see illegal migrants rock up on our shores and evade all legal methods of entry. Is this your own personal desire or does it extend to Labour Party policy as well?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,593]

14 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

The rolling stock will remain in private hands and continue to be leased so it's not a full re-nationalisation.

I don't understand why this bit has been overlooked given the profits if the rolling stock owners are huge. I can understand it in terms of capital outlay in one go, but that doesn't mean government can't start buying new rolling stock itself as the private stock wears out.

[Fen Canary 866]

On 26/04/2024 at 09:07, littleyellowbirdie said:

I don't understand why this bit has been overlooked given the profits if the rolling stock owners are huge. I can understand it in terms of capital outlay in one go, but that doesn't mean government can't start buying new rolling stock itself as the private stock wears out.

Because Starmer is a retail politician who doesn’t believe in anything. Nationalisation of the railways is popular with the electorate, but would involve taking on the vested interests of the rail companies so instead he finds a fudge that sounds like he’s bringing back under public ownership while in reality still letting private interests cream money off the top

[KiwiScot 1,460]

4 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Because Starmer is a retail politician who doesn’t believe in anything. Nationalisation of the railways is popular with the electorate, but would involve taking on the vested interests of the rail companies so instead he finds a fudge that sounds like he’s bringing back under public ownership while in reality still letting private interests cream money off the top

I'd say he believes in getting power plus public control over private resources is a step better then full private control.

[Fen Canary 866]

7 hours ago, KiwiScot said:

I'd say he believes in getting power plus public control over private resources is a step better then full private control.

It is but only marginally, and that’s if he even follows through 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,593]

9 hours ago, KiwiScot said:

I'd say he believes in getting power plus public control over private resources is a step better then full private control.

 

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

It is but only marginally, and that’s if he even follows through 

I like Starmer. People liken him to Blair, but I think there's more substance to Starmer.

Pragmatism's a great quality in a leader. If Labour get the majority it looks likey they're going to, then he's going to have an easy ride legislating how he wishes and keeping the loonie left in check. The flip side of that is they can be judged against their manifesto in five years with no excuses; although they're in for a big landslide, the strength of feeling in support is weak.

Edited April 27 by littleyellowbirdie

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

On 27/04/2024 at 21:33, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

I like Starmer. People liken him to Blair, but I think there's more substance to Starmer.

Pragmatism's a great quality in a leader. If Labour get the majority it looks likey they're going to, then he's going to have an easy ride legislating how he wishes and keeping the loonie left in check. The flip side of that is they can be judged against their manifesto in five years with no excuses; although they're in for a big landslide, the strength of feeling in support is weak.

The problem with landslides, as Boris Johnson with his 80 seat majority found out, is that the rank and file MPs can play naughty boys safe in the knowledge that their misbehaviour will not cause any voting problems. The Tory whips then very quickly lost control as everybody thought they could have a turn at bad behaviour. In these dying days of the Tory government it feels like nobody in government is at work or trying to make a difference, they're just turning up for the salary and the freebies.

[DraytonBoy 160]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

it feels like nobody in government is at work or trying to make a difference

They are totally devoid of ideas, all the vaguely sensible Tories (to quote a football cliche) are 'already on the beach' having said they won't stand again, many more have lined up jobs knowing they'll get kicked out so all that's left are the rabid right wingers fixated on stopping a few thousand crossing the channel in small boats.

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

3 hours ago, DraytonBoy said:

They are totally devoid of ideas, all the vaguely sensible Tories (to quote a football cliche) are 'already on the beach' having said they won't stand again, many more have lined up jobs knowing they'll get kicked out so all that's left are the rabid right wingers fixated on stopping a few thousand crossing the channel in small boats.

Yes - And the decent thinking Tories that are left are crossing the floor (Dan Poulter) and/or standing down.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68915259

Game over. All nine lives I think.

[KiwiScot 1,460]

On 29/04/2024 at 01:45, Rock The Boat said:

The problem with landslides, as Boris Johnson with his 80 seat majority found out, is that the rank and file MPs can play naughty boys safe in the knowledge that their misbehaviour will not cause any voting problems. The Tory whips then very quickly lost control as everybody thought they could have a turn at bad behaviour. In these dying days of the Tory government it feels like nobody in government is at work or trying to make a difference, they're just turning up for the salary and the freebies.

Unlike a few concurrent scandals with Johnson surely it helps prolong the good times until the PM is unpopular enough they try to bend his will or force a leadership challenge.

Starmer is having to play it cool as Labour have to these days trying to gain power so if he gets in then his MPs will be surprised by his actions.

Gaza is going to be a huge problem

[cambridgeshire canary 6,795]

Well, fair to say that things look good for Keir. Can you imagine this reality? Labour on over 500 seats, Tories only just scrapping past 30 seats.. Could the Tories ever recover? Like, seriously this would be dead for a decade levels of chaos for the Tories

Edited May 2 by cambridgeshire canary

[DraytonBoy 160]

Let's see if these numbers change once the manifestos come out and we get close to polling day. 

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Well, fair to say that things look good for Keir. Can you imagine this reality? Labour on over 500 seats, Tories only just scrapping past 30 seats.. Could the Tories ever recover? Like, seriously this would be dead for a decade levels of chaos for the Tories

As many as that ?

I'm not sure who's being optimistic but just desserts anyway for doing a deal with the populist devil. They'll pass into folklore and as a warning for other political parties.   

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

15 minutes ago, DraytonBoy said:

Let's see if these numbers change once the manifestos come out and we get close to polling day. 

They'll probably widen.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,593]

Looks like Caroline Lucas' replacement as MP in Brighton is going to be Sian Berry.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/green-assembly-member-quits-days-after-election/ar-BB1m1xbE

Edited 18 hours ago by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,825]

Another Tory defect to Labour - MP for Dover. Doesn't believe the small boat policyworks!

Tory MP Natalie Elphicke has defected to Labour, hitting out at the “broken promises of Rishi Sunak’s tired and chaotic government”, PA Media reports.

[A Load of Squit 5,221]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Another Tory defect to Labour - MP for Dover. Doesn't believe the small boat policyworks!

Tory MP Natalie Elphicke has defected to Labour, hitting out at the “broken promises of Rishi Sunak’s tired and chaotic government”, PA Media reports.

If you had told me another Tory had defected to Labour and asked me to guess which one it was I think we would've been here a long time before I said Natalie Elphicke.

Given her past, I'm surprised Starmer didn't turn her down but the siginificance of it being the MP for Dover and her criticism of the small boats policy makes it a publicity coup for Labour.

[Herman 9,823]

24 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Another Tory defect to Labour - MP for Dover. Doesn't believe the small boat policyworks!

Tory MP Natalie Elphicke has defected to Labour, hitting out at the “broken promises of Rishi Sunak’s tired and chaotic government”, PA Media reports.

She is another truly awful politician. A coup for Labour, as Squit says, but they can be glad she isn't standing again.