canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Hillhead said: Those rules are saying the goal should stand. They're also saying all the other missed penalties this season should have been retaken but you're saying you wouldn't exoect them to be but that today's was right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hillhead 114 Posted December 1, 2019 Just now, canarydan23 said: They're also saying all the other missed penalties this season should have been retaken but you're saying you wouldn't exoect them to be but that today's was right? My understanding is that those rules are enforced when the encroaching player is then involved in the rebound. Hence why I think what I do If that isn't the case or how the rule should be enforced then I agree with all your complaints Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crabbycanary3 994 Posted December 1, 2019 Anyone seen any replays about the possible handball by an Arsenal player in the area (so our penalty) at the same passage of play as the McClean head to head (VAR red card)? We were convinced it was handball but I can't seem to find any reference to it, so I'm thinking it was our eyes playing tricks, or has anyone seen any tv footage yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Bristol Nest 513 Posted December 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: It's a shame that the six-year-old isn't talking to his dad about a great game, a good performance and a point against Arsenal. Instead he's listening to his drunk father swear about the ref and may unfortunately learn bad habits about mouthing off to referees or teachers when he doesn't get his own way. Come on. This is getting silly. You have no idea how he behaved in front of the six year old. Let's not be competitive parents! 😉 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Crabbycanary3 said: Anyone seen any replays about the possible handball by an Arsenal player in the area (so our penalty) at the same passage of play as the McClean head to head (VAR red card)? We were convinced it was handball but I can't seem to find any reference to it, so I'm thinking it was our eyes playing tricks, or has anyone seen any tv footage yet? Saw it, I missed the head to head so was bewildered when it said no red card as I was expecting a ruling on if it was a penalty. More horse ****. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821 Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said: Anyone seen any replays about the possible handball by an Arsenal player in the area (so our penalty) at the same passage of play as the McClean head to head (VAR red card)? We were convinced it was handball but I can't seem to find any reference to it, so I'm thinking it was our eyes playing tricks, or has anyone seen any tv footage yet? It wasn't a handball as it hit Kolasinac's chest, and it wasn't a red card either- although pushing his forehead into the side of McLean's head was risky. 7 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said: Come on. This is getting silly. You have no idea how he behaved in front of the six year old. Let's not be competitive parents! 😉 Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have said it. Edited December 1, 2019 by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Paddons Beard 2,431 Posted December 1, 2019 1 hour ago, duke63 said: the only thing that was wrong was that Chambers was still on the pitch at 90 minutes. He committed two or three fouls that warranted a second yellow but the ref bottled them all. The ref actually spoke to him after the second (or third) incident ? What ? Tell a man who’s on a yellow that he has just committed two more fouls ? It was pathetic refereeing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mason 47 1,379 Posted December 1, 2019 If we're talking about the handball call against Kolasinac, no it wasn't. Clearly hit his torso. Aarons was encroaching before completing the clearance- I don't think that point can be argued. As I said before, I think the issue is that the first player who would have legally reached the rebound was Zimmermann by acres and acres; if no Arsenal player was even a tiny bit in contention to win that ball, i cant understand the ruling that it's a get-out-of-jail free card to retake. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted December 1, 2019 14 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said: Anyone seen any replays about the possible handball by an Arsenal player in the area (so our penalty) at the same passage of play as the McClean head to head (VAR red card)? We were convinced it was handball but I can't seem to find any reference to it, so I'm thinking it was our eyes playing tricks, or has anyone seen any tv footage yet? Hit his stomach 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted December 1, 2019 21 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said: I think we are talking about sendings off and bookings for some pretty tame stuff. MacLeans wasn't as bad as made out. It looked worse because as he spun his trailing leg took out the man. And Chambers were just little fouls after the booking and hardly worth a booking. I’d have had no issues had McClean been sent off for that. In today’s game he was very lucky to stay on the pitch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Paddons Beard 2,431 Posted December 1, 2019 I’m afraid you have to be at the game to fully understand how dreadful the interpretation of VAR is. The fans at the ground know nothing about what is or isn’t referred . Why , and how the ultimate decision is reached . the largest spectator sport on the planet is now set up for TV with no thought for the crowd. We found out about the encroachment for the pen save via a text message from someone watching the game at home . How on earth can that be right ? Of course it is entirely down to the pathetic Manner in which the Refs Association in the UK have allowed it to be implemented. A good idea ,terribly implemented , being allowed to spoil the spectators experience. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,536 Posted December 1, 2019 Yep, you can see such detail from your armchairs. All for free if you can find a stream. I think we should be paid for providing your atmosphere.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDMullins 436 Posted December 1, 2019 Lets be reet, it was absolutely a penalty. The retake however... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 1, 2019 15 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: It wasn't a handball as it hit Kolasinac's chest, and it wasn't a red card either- although pushing his forehead into the side of McLean's head was risky. Fair enough, I probably shouldn't have said it. Fair play, not many people on here can admit when they're wrong, even with photographic evidence showing it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,208 Posted December 1, 2019 VAR = Video Assistance Relegation of the smaller clubs. Would the penalty have been retaken if it was us missing against Liverpool or Frank Lampards Chelsea ? I think not. Should be facts only and no room for opinion. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,334 Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, CDMullins said: Lets be reet, it was absolutely a penalty. The retake however... Was also a retake. I didn't like it but Max did encroach. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted December 1, 2019 I’ve just looked again at the retake and I will say I’ll happily change my mind on that as Aaron’s body is clearly in the area but his feet are on the line. I don’t know how the rules sit on that but his feet are clearly not encroaching in the area Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hillhead 114 Posted December 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, nutty nigel said: Yep, you can see such detail from your armchairs. All for free if you can find a stream. I think we should be paid for providing your atmosphere.... You can be thousands of miles away and know whats going on while those just meters away haven't a clue! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,334 Posted December 1, 2019 Just now, JF said: I’ve just looked again at the retake and I will say I’ll happily change my mind on that as Aaron’s body is clearly in the area but his feet are on the line. I don’t know how the rules sit on that but his feet are clearly not encroaching in the area It was explained in match commentary that the area begins at the start of the line for penalty encroachment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crabbycanary3 994 Posted December 1, 2019 There was a fella on Canary Call who said (I think) that showing the screen shots/action of a VAR incident on the screen would dampen a lot of ire ( I agree), but because 2 teams (Man Utd plus one other ) do not have screens, that it cannot be implemented. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarydan23 4,060 Posted December 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said: It was explained in match commentary that the area begins at the start of the line for penalty encroachment. 5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said: It was explained in match commentary that the area begins at the start of the line for penalty encroachment. And again I'll ask, were the referees wrong with every single other missed penalty this season when a defender had encroached, as demonstrated a few posts back? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,334 Posted December 1, 2019 I still think that despite all the handwringing, our fans should be happier about our performance than the gooners. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted December 1, 2019 Just now, wcorkcanary said: I still think that despite all the handwringing, our fans should be happier about our performance than the gooners. Absolutely. In all honesty I feel like we’ve lost that match, such is my disappointment we couldn’t take one of the chances we created at 2-2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,334 Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said: And again I'll ask, were the referees wrong with every single other missed penalty this season when a defender had encroached, as demonstrated a few posts back? I suppose it depends on whether or not the encroaching player clears the ball or not. Sorry if I missed you asking me before, I was eating shteak and chips. Is that why you quoted me twice?. Edited December 1, 2019 by wcorkcanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CDMullins 436 Posted December 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said: Was also a retake. I didn't like it but Max did encroach. Clear and obviously? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wcorkcanary 4,334 Posted December 1, 2019 1 minute ago, CDMullins said: Clear and obviously? Yes, and he cleared the ball, had aubemeyang missed completely ,, it wouldn't have been retaken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,536 Posted December 1, 2019 Without VAR this retake wouldn't have been an issue. Arsenal wouldn't even have appealed. Or even complained afterwards. This was not the "clear and obvious" that VAR was brought in for. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hank shoots Skyler 2,094 Posted December 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said: And again I'll ask, were the referees wrong with every single other missed penalty this season when a defender had encroached, as demonstrated a few posts back? Canarydan - of the penalties you screenshotted earlier, how many of the misses led to an immediate rebound whereby the encroaching defender was the one who got to the ball first to clear it? I think that is the discrepancy here, I don’t think they pull it back for encroachment unless the offending player reaches the rebound first and benefits from the encroachment. I.e. if Aubamayang stuck it straight out for a goal kick it wouldn’t be overturned. This was my interpretation of the rules from how I believe MOTD has previously explained it and it does make sense to me if correct. It’s a similar approach taken as with not overturning the directly scored penalties when the keeper is off his line; the unfair advantage the keeper took did not yield any benefit therefore no need to retake. Although there was the silly occurrence last week with the Matt Ryan foul save vs Vardy which was retaken even though Maddison tucked home the rebound - there should be a bit more common sense with this stuff! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,676 Posted December 1, 2019 24 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said: I suppose it depends on whether or not the encroaching player clears the ball or not. Sorry if I missed you asking me before, I was eating shteak and chips. Is that why you quoted me twice?. But the rules on the FA website don't seem to make any comment regards to if the encroaching player clears the ball. It's just so inconsistent and it's ridiculous for fans at the ground. We were stood for 4 or 5 minutes having the emotion sucked out of an awesome Krul save. This encroaching is not 'clear and obvious', it's requiring stills for people to identify whats happened. It also can't be good for the players. You build up momentum, you're fine-tuned athletes and you have to stand around whilst some ref who couldn't get his own decisions right and is the entire reason for the introduction of VAR sits in a room trying to get more decisions wrong. It sounds like an April fools joke only it's not - it's real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Paddons Beard 2,431 Posted December 1, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said: Yes, and he cleared the ball, had aubemeyang missed completely ,, it wouldn't have been retaken. Not so . Encroachment is encroachment . If Arsenal blaze it over the bar the pen is still retaken. Equally if Arsenal score VAR should check to see if attackers encroached . Penalties are an auto referral . But apparently not all aspects of penalties! Edited December 1, 2019 by Graham Paddons Beard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites