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5 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

A billionaire would have maybe personally paid for the Colney improvements/upgrade.....?

Probably would but only if they owned it first. And I don't mean own it as part of the club but separately. They'd want the same thing for any improvements made to Carrow Road.

 

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Good on 'em.....their mortgage is paid, they've got their loans back.....Now enjoying the trappings and perks of being non-contributing majority shareholders at the head of a self funding footy club......Nice if you can get it.....Here's for the future and whatever it may hold.....?

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16 hours ago, ThorpeCanary said:

Agree completely.

But my point is what happens if that 145 million got spent in a bid to push ourselves to the next level only for us to be relegated anyway.  What happens then?

She won’t go and we become a selling club, the concern isn’t that. It is, what happens once Webber goes!?

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13 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Good on 'em.....their mortgage is paid, they've got their loans back.....Now enjoying the trappings and perks of being non-contributing majority shareholders at the head of a self funding footy club......Nice if you can get it.....Here's for the future and whatever it may hold.....?

There'd be no perks without the work.

Can you imagine the hours they must have put in to get the club to where it is today?

From a struggling team, £7m debt and a dilapidated South Stand to what we have today, without the major investment many fans yearn for.

I reckon they've earned a few perks along the way and good for them.

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26 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Good on 'em.....their mortgage is paid, they've got their loans back.....Now enjoying the trappings and perks of being non-contributing majority shareholders at the head of a self funding footy club......Nice if you can get it.....Here's for the future and whatever it may hold.....?

Of course we could be Man United, a Club with owners that only care about the bottom line, couldn't care less about the football unless profits diminish and are quite happy to have someone in charge of signings that cares more about shirt sales and far east pre season tours than any progress being made in the overall development of the Club.  There are very few Clubs IN THE WORLD that aren't 'selling Clubs' and they are the 'buying Clubs'(Barca, Real M, PSG etc) that pay top dollar for nearly anyone they sign, the rest of us do our best in the pond in which we swim.

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Well, the future is bright then

10 minutes ago, lappinitup said:

There'd be no perks without the work.

Can you imagine the hours they must have put in to get the club to where it is today?

From a struggling team, £7m debt and a dilapidated South Stand to what we have today, without the major investment many fans yearn for.

I reckon they've earned a few perks along the way and good for them.

Aw that's nice, they do deserve it.....Although I hope the facilities in the Cathedral Lounge improve.....Overcrowding and far too small toilets.......Bob Chase has a lot to answer for.....

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8 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Of course we could be Man United, a Club with owners that only care about the bottom line, couldn't care less about the football unless profits diminish and are quite happy to have someone in charge of signings that cares more about shirt sales and far east pre season tours than any progress being made in the overall development of the Club.  There are very few Clubs IN THE WORLD that aren't 'selling Clubs' and they are the 'buying Clubs'(Barca, Real M, PSG etc) that pay top dollar for nearly anyone they sign, the rest of us do our best in the pond in which we swim.

Makes you wonder why those big clubs don't also try the self-funding model?.....Close a few club shops and get their support to chip in to improve their training ground facilities and stuff?......Probably missing a trick?..... 

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52 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I think that's one of the most relevant points to be fair. You could maybe add Leicester to your list. However it's still highly unlikely so then you have to weigh up the odds and decide if it's worth the risk through just a dislike of the owners.

 

The risk is hugely overstated though. I know people will cite Bolton and Pompey but the fact is that clubs the size of ours just do not go out of business and that's assuming that whoever comes in spends recklessly and makes a complete mess of everything anyway.

My answer to the question as to what would wealthier owners bring is that in all probability it gives you a better chance to compete and retain your place at the top table because they do enable you to maybe take a bit more of a risk and bring in that extra player because the owners are able to underwrite any debt or manage any cash flow shortage. Or as others have said they pay for the facilities so the club don't have to (either Colney or more pertinently a new stand perhaps). That's the edge that clubs like Bournemouth, Watford (yes I know I know), Wolves, Palace, Leicester, West Ham and Villa have. And if we had that, at a time when we have a fantastic coach and a good sporting director then perhaps we could really flourish during this spell, actually achieve something at the top level (dare I say it even a cup final or something) and not waste yet another opportunity by becoming the most relegated club from the premier league ever. It also comes at a time when the sc*m are at a low ebb and we have a real chance to leave them behind (both on and off the pitch) but if we are not careful we will find ourselves both back in the champ next season and again with not a great deal to show for promotion.

In a way I accept this discussion is pointless because they are going nowhere and so we are just talking hypotheticals. We have to accept that our owners have chosen a path and hope that we continue to do it as well as we have for the last 18 months but it doesn't mean some of us don't think there are other paths and I do find the way so many fans have been brain washed into thinking that more wealthy owners (or backers) wouldn't want the club to do as well as it can or wouldn't care or would necessarily mean "doing a Fulham" quite bizarre. The owners have chosen this model out of necessity because they want to hold onto the club and can't afford to do anything else not because they think it provides the best chance of success for the club.

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18 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The risk is hugely overstated though. I know people will cite Bolton and Pompey but the fact is that clubs the size of ours just do not go out of business and that's assuming that whoever comes in spends recklessly and makes a complete mess of everything anyway.

My answer to the question as to what would wealthier owners bring is that in all probability it gives you a better chance to compete and retain your place at the top table because they do enable you to maybe take a bit more of a risk and bring in that extra player because the owners are able to underwrite any debt or manage any cash flow shortage. Or as others have said they pay for the facilities so the club don't have to (either Colney or more pertinently a new stand perhaps). That's the edge that clubs like Bournemouth, Watford (yes I know I know), Wolves, Palace, Leicester, West Ham and Villa have. And if we had that, at a time when we have a fantastic coach and a good sporting director then perhaps we could really flourish during this spell, actually achieve something at the top level (dare I say it even a cup final or something) and not waste yet another opportunity by becoming the most relegated club from the premier league ever. It also comes at a time when the sc*m are at a low ebb and we have a real chance to leave them behind (both on and off the pitch) but if we are not careful we will find ourselves both back in the champ next season and again with not a great deal to show for promotion.

In a way I accept this discussion is pointless because they are going nowhere and so we are just talking hypotheticals. We have to accept that our owners have chosen a path and hope that we continue to do it as well as we have for the last 18 months but it doesn't mean some of us don't think there are other paths and I do find the way so many fans have been brain washed into thinking that more wealthy owners (or backers) wouldn't want the club to do as well as it can or wouldn't care or would necessarily mean "doing a Fulham" quite bizarre. The owners have chosen this model out of necessity because they want to hold onto the club and can't afford to do anything else not because they think it provides the best chance of success for the club.

Can I just say that I didn't refer to Bolton or Pompey or any other club who'd had such problems. The risk I meant was whether we'd end up with a club we like better. After all that's the real point isn't it?  Is the risk that you'd get a club you like less just to get owners you like more acceptable to you?

I never see you compare other owners to our owners achievements. You just compare the wealth.

 

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28 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Makes you wonder why those big clubs don't also try the self-funding model?.....Close a few club shops and get their support to chip in to improve their training ground facilities and stuff?......Probably missing a trick?..... 

Think a little and you'll answer your own question. Man u owners are only interested in profit, so closing club shops if they are profitable is daft.  Man City have shedloads of Money and have invested in their academy and training facilities. This is not about polar opposites, this is about what works for NCFC. Sure Delia and Co. have a few quid, but not enough to be splashing out on Premier League quality players, i have no idea of her net worth but i doubt its enough to buy and pay many Eden Hazards or Kevin de Bruins.  the Colneys Share offer was put in place long before we looked likely for promotion and by my reckoning worked well, job done, by people that wanted to help the Club and make a few quid, Happy Days. 

Sure, if we managed to source an NCFC loving Billionaire who wanted to invest, without meddling in player affairs, and who was happy to see his/her money being used by a competent management structure, i would have no problem with that. Names on a postcard please to.... Delia and Co. Carrow Rd. Naaarich.

36 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

with not a great deal to show for promotion.

We are now financially stable, two and a half years ago we were in trouble , that in itlelf is money well spent. We trimmed and secured a decent playing squad and have numerous promising youngsters in the Academy. Not bad so far i'd say.

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2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Can I just say that I didn't refer to Bolton or Pompey or any other club who'd had such problems. The risk I meant was whether we'd end up with a club we like better. After all that's the real point isn't it?  Is the risk that you'd get a club you like less just to get owners you like more acceptable to you?

I never see you compare other owners to our owners achievements. You just compare the wealth.

 

I actually like our owners Nutty. I just come at it from a perspective that I am not that bothered whether I like the owners, I just want us to compete at the top level and take opportunities when they come along. If a new owner kept us in the premier league for 10 years I couldn't care less if they are a bit of an a**ehole although obviously I'd prefer it if they weren't and it would be a shame if they burnt bridges with the local community. If you look at the owners of most of the top flight clubs though they have not done that.

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2 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Think a little and you'll answer your own question. Man u owners are only interested in profit, so closing club shops if they are profitable is daft.  Man City have shedloads of Money and have invested in their academy and training facilities. This is not about polar opposites, this is about what works for NCFC. Sure Delia and Co. have a few quid, but not enough to be splashing out on Premier League quality players, i have no idea of her net worth but i doubt its enough to buy and pay many Eden Hazards or Kevin de Bruins.  the Colneys Share offer was put in place long before we looked likely for promotion and by my reckoning worked well, job done, by people that wanted to help the Club and make a few quid, Happy Days. 

Sure, if we managed to source an NCFC loving Billionaire who wanted to invest, without meddling in player affairs, and who was happy to see his/her money being used by a competent management structure, i would have no problem with that. Names on a postcard please to.... Delia and Co. Carrow Rd. Naaarich.

We are now financially stable, two and a half years ago we were in trouble , that in itlelf is money well spent. We trimmed and secured a decent playing squad and have numerous promising youngsters in the Academy. Not bad so far i'd say.

and if we go down we will be told that we need to sell and need to reduce the wage bill again and the whole cycle begins again. 

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2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I actually like our owners Nutty. I just come at it from a perspective that I am not that bothered whether I like the owners, I just want us to compete at the top level and take opportunities when they come along. If a new owner kept us in the premier league for 10 years I couldn't care less if they are a bit of an a**ehole although obviously I'd prefer it if they weren't and it would be a shame if they burnt bridges with the local community. If you look at the owners of most of the top flight clubs though they have not done that.

I did wonder whether to reply to you after you disrespectfully claimed those who disagree with you are brainwashed🙃

However if we debate the merits of your post perhaps you'll tell me which owners have come into a club and kept them in the premier league for 10 years and how many have tried and  failed to do that?

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About a year ago i decided to reduce my small shareholding of 100 shares as nobody in my family is particularly interested in NCFC shares when i am no longer about. I sold a parcel of 25 shares to a fellow poster on here so if anybody is interested in purchasing up to another 50 of my shares send me a PM. Happy to have just 25 shares for the rest of my days and sell the others in 10's or 25's.

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40 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I did wonder whether to reply to you after you disrespectfully claimed those who disagree with you are brainwashed🙃

However if we debate the merits of your post perhaps you'll tell me which owners have come into a club and kept them in the premier league for 10 years and how many have tried and  failed to do that?

I don’t believe those who disagree are brainwashed Nutty just those who take the view that spending more money will inevitably result in “doing a Fulham.”

I also accept that a wealthy owner making bad decisions can be just as bad or indeed maybe worse than a poor owner making bad decisions. 

In terms of current owners obviously the list someone has posted shows such stints have not been the norm for those outside the “big 6” but I would argue that aside perhaps from Man U and Mike Ashley (and even there there is an argument to say he’s not been that bad) all of the owners of the premier league clubs at present are growing and supporting those clubs and are not “evil” foreign owners out to rip the club off or acting contrary to the interests of the clubs. They all seem to me to be pretty “good” owners the likes of which we are often told “simply aren’t out there” and they all seem to have put in significant sums of money. 

 

 

 

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Now let me get this right Jimbo. You think all the owners in the PL (including ours?) are doing ok but you'd like to change ours, even though you say you like them.

Why?

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38 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Now let me get this right Jimbo. You think all the owners in the PL (including ours?) are doing ok but you'd like to change ours, even though you say you like them.

Why?

Quite simply Nutty I believe that the financial clout of the owners of the other clubs increased their chances of staying up whilst the financial clout of ours counts against us. As I say, we are what we are and they aren’t going to sell up so this is all hypothetical.

 

Also that’s not to say that the disadvantages we have are insurmountable for us and I hope we are able to defy the odds. 

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20 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Quite simply Nutty I believe that the financial clout of the owners of the other clubs increased their chances of staying up whilst the financial clout of ours counts against us. As I say, we are what we are and they aren’t going to sell up so this is all hypothetical.

 

Also that’s not to say that the disadvantages we have are insurmountable for us and I hope we are able to defy the odds. 

So it's not really the fitness to run a club, the commitment to a club and the local community or even keeping the assets within the club that matter to you. Just the bank balance of the owner.

For me that's a bit like knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

BTW Jimbo, last time we had this debate you were adamant we couldn't compete with Ipswich.

We won't ever agree.🙃

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21 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So it's not really the fitness to run a club, the commitment to a club and the local community or even keeping the assets within the club that matter to you. Just the bank balance of the owner.

For me that's a bit like knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

BTW Jimbo, last time we had this debate you were adamant we couldn't compete with Ipswich.

We won't ever agree.🙃

No it’s not just bank balance. It’s about running the club well but it’s about the fact that bigger bank balance coupled with running the club well beats just running the club well 9 times out of 10.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

No it’s not just bank balance. It’s about running the club well but it’s about the fact that bigger bank balance coupled with running the club well beats just running the club well 9 times out of 10.

That's absolutely and provably wrong Jimbo. The owners of virtually every club in the championship and some in League One have a bigger bank balance. So at most that's 1 out of  2.

Edited by nutty nigel

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We were a very well run Club in 2004. We were a badly run Club in 2008. So bad that we nearly went bust.  Getting better run in 2009 , brilliantly run in 2010 all the way to the Premier League. We then became a mediocre run club in 2014 , but then brilliantly run in 2015 with a fantastic day at Wembley. Relegation (badly run) , loss of profits (worsely run)  , terrible financial forecast (so badly run that its all been p'eed up the wall) then averagely run in (2017-18) . Last year Brilliantly run.

I think that covers it.

 

 

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This thread looks more like a debate than factual answers to me...

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7 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

We were a very well run Club in 2004. We were a badly run Club in 2008. So bad that we nearly went bust.  Getting better run in 2009 , brilliantly run in 2010 all the way to the Premier League. We then became a mediocre run club in 2014 , but then brilliantly run in 2015 with a fantastic day at Wembley. Relegation (badly run) , loss of profits (worsely run)  , terrible financial forecast (so badly run that its all been p'eed up the wall) then averagely run in (2017-18) . Last year Brilliantly run.

I think that covers it.

 

 

I'll settle for the current upward trajectory in your assessment of our recent travails. This project will take time to be successful , both financially and footbally. We won't need rich owners if we have a rich Club.

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14 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

We were a very well run Club in 2004. We were a badly run Club in 2008. So bad that we nearly went bust.  Getting better run in 2009 , brilliantly run in 2010 all the way to the Premier League. We then became a mediocre run club in 2014 , but then brilliantly run in 2015 with a fantastic day at Wembley. Relegation (badly run) , loss of profits (worsely run)  , terrible financial forecast (so badly run that its all been p'eed up the wall) then averagely run in (2017-18) . Last year Brilliantly run.

I think that covers it.

 

 

Yep. It sums up the cyclical nature of football and is the same for all clubs. If it wasn't so then the same 20 clubs would be in the PL forever 🙃

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12 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Yep. It sums up the cyclical nature of football and is the same for all clubs. If it wasn't so then the same 20 clubs would be in the PL forever 🙃

Although would you admit Nutty, that if we become the club that has been relegated from the premier league the most times of any club (which would be the case if we go down this season) then we will have failed to grasp the opportunity provided by premier league football more times than any others?

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16 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

About a year ago i decided to reduce my small shareholding of 100 shares as nobody in my family is particularly interested in NCFC shares when i am no longer about. I sold a parcel of 25 shares to a fellow poster on here so if anybody is interested in purchasing up to another 50 of my shares send me a PM. Happy to have just 25 shares for the rest of my days and sell the others in 10's or 25's.

As GMF said earlier in this thread, the Canaries Trust are happy to help in share transactions between supporters or indeed purchasing any shares that are for sale. Contact us at shares@canariestrust.org and we'd be happy to help.

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14 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Although would you admit Nutty, that if we become the club that has been relegated from the premier league the most times of any club (which would be the case if we go down this season) then we will have failed to grasp the opportunity provided by premier league football more times than any others?

That's one way of looking at it.

The other is that in order to get those relegations we needed to be promoted in the first place. Nuttys table showed that unless your one of the top 6/7 then your stay isn't going to last forever.

Why see relegations as blowing good opportunities and not celebrate the promotions back here? I don't look at the spending of Marcus Evans (~2007) or Tony Fernandez (2011) with much envy at all.

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1 hour ago, Kathy said:

As GMF said earlier in this thread, the Canaries Trust are happy to help in share transactions between supporters or indeed purchasing any shares that are for sale. Contact us at shares@canariestrust.org and we'd be happy to help.

i managed to do it last time by obtaining a transfer form from NCFC and completing it myself. A simple procedure and not rocket science thanks all the same Kathy. I have had an expression of interest from a poster by PM last night.

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1 hour ago, Kathy said:

As GMF said earlier in this thread, the Canaries Trust are happy to help in share transactions between supporters or indeed purchasing any shares that are for sale. Contact us at shares@canariestrust.org and we'd be happy to help.

I think it's good of the Trust to advertise them for people and put them in touch with each other, saves people asking around but as Tilly said it is very easy to do yourself, must be if I've done it, phone call to get the transfer certificate, fill it in and send it back, job done. 

 

 

 

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To be clear, the Trust offers just an introductory service for potential buyers and sellers - it’s for vendors and purchasers to subsequently agree a price between themselves and, as Tilly and Diane mention, to also deal with the associated administration for the share transfer with the Club.

Edited by GMF

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