The Positive Brexit Thread

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

God forbid!

It gets even more infantile.

I take it you are referring to the M20 corridor which handles lorries which supply all parts of the country, including your own.

Kent is rather a big county after all. Get your atlas out.

Give up fella. The constant strain of having to continually search the web for irrelevant little photographs will surely take it's toll on such a sensitive soul as you.

It's not even proper debate.  

 

 

Just an observation

Stack tended to affect quite a large area of Kent. With the coastbound closure of the M20, vehicles had to find other routes. The A20 would become heavily congested, in practice cutting off access for people needing to travel from North to South. It had a terrible effect on some local businesses. Travel even 50-60 miles from Dover would start taking a lot longer

Hopefully Brock will prove to be better

[paul moy 235]

18 hours ago, BigFish said:

Pretty good post @BroadstairsR, it needed to be said (by a Leaver) that there is no benefit for the UK in the decline of the EU. We have become so used to discussing everything through a Brexit prism that the best interests of the UK sometimes get lost.

The UK has immediate challenges: a record budget deficit and collapsing economic output are immediate, and largely Covid related. But before that we had long term issues of low productivity, low skills, low investment, low pay (less than is often needed to survive), regional inequality, social inequality. To this we now face the challenges of technology & climate change.

Many of these we share with the EU, some we could learn from the EU on solutions and some they could learn from us. Some we will need to work together to address.

It doesn't matter now one way or the other as we are out, but while we were a member we were in danger of being brought down with them when the whole house of dodgy cards collapses. Not a matter of if, but when. 

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

1 hour ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Just an observation

Stack tended to affect quite a large area of Kent. With the coastbound closure of the M20, vehicles had to find other routes. The A20 would become heavily congested, in practice cutting off access for people needing to travel from North to South. It had a terrible effect on some local businesses. Travel even 50-60 miles from Dover would start taking a lot longer

Hopefully Brock will prove to be better

True, but it's a fact that these enormous gas guzzling, smoke ejecting neo-juggernauts seem to  virtually take over the entire motorway system of this country at times. They can even be dangerous and need watching. Not all are bound for abroad either.

We need ask ourselves  just how this system came about in this age of global warming? Is there a better way?

The roads of Kent are not unused to stacking. The Dover outlet is a bottle-neck of horrendous proportions at times. Every time there was a labour dispute or protest on the other side of the Channel the lines of lorries lining the M20 presented a sight of obscene proportions. More latterly Macron caused it by his blanket ban on travel.

The new system, whereby lorries take to lorry parks (with adequate facilities at hand) in order to get clearance so that they can "sail" through the ports of exit with  the  minimum of delay seems sound in this technological age and will likely prove successful once any teething problems are solved.

A few NIMBYs have objected on occasions, but they want the produce as much as the rest of us.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[paul moy 235]

52 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

True, but it's a fact that these enormous gas guzzling, smoke ejecting neo-juggernauts seem to  virtually take over the entire motorway system of this country at times. They can even be dangerous and need watching. Not all are bound for abroad either.

We need ask ourselves  just how this system came about in this age of global warming? Is there a better way?

The roads of Kent are not unused to stacking. The Dover outlet is a bottle-neck of horrendous proportions at times. Every time there was a labour dispute or protest on the other side of the Channel the lines of lorries lining the M20 presented a sight of obscene proportions. More latterly Macron caused it by his blanket ban on travel.

The new system, whereby lorries take to lorry parks (with adequate facilities at hand) in order to get clearance so that they can "sail" through the ports of exit with  the  minimum of delay seems sound in this technological age and will likely prove successful once any teething problems are solved.

A few NIMBYs have objected on occasions, but they want the produce as much as the rest of us.

 

 

Yes, there is a better way, and we are now on that road thanks to Brexit.  The answer is to stop importing so much that we could produce here, and we did not have the incentive to do that while in the EU, but for sure we do now.  We should also heavily tax or even ban lorries that are only passing through using UK roads, such as those from Eire to the EU.  Let them use ferries  and hopefully this will also disincentivise Eire from their 'dirty' exports using our roads and correspondingly polluting and congesting our environment. We owe them nothing after the way they have disrespected us so deserve nothing less.

[Herman 9,820]

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

True, but it's a fact that these enormous gas guzzling, smoke ejecting neo-juggernauts seem to  virtually take over the entire motorway system of this country at times. They can even be dangerous and need watching. Not all are bound for abroad either.

We need ask ourselves  just how this system came about in this age of global warming? Is there a better way?

The roads of Kent are not unused to stacking. The Dover outlet is a bottle-neck of horrendous proportions at times. Every time there was a labour dispute or protest on the other side of the Channel the lines of lorries lining the M20 presented a sight of obscene proportions. More latterly Macron caused it by his blanket ban on travel.

The new system, whereby lorries take to lorry parks (with adequate facilities at hand) in order to get clearance so that they can "sail" through the ports of exit with  the  minimum of delay seems sound in this technological age and will likely prove successful once any teething problems are solved.

A few NIMBYs have objected on occasions, but they want the produce as much as the rest of us.

 

 

to be fair, I have a bit of sympathy for some of the NIMBYs, as the location of these parks haven´t been properly scrutinized

@paul moy I´m not against the idea of producing locally, but we have a lot to do in developing that area. Also, we are not self sufficient in food production, we need those imports. I think it was @keelansgrandad who mentioned returning to seasonal produce, this is fine,  but will people be happy with that? To improve food production we need to eat a lot less meat, will people be happy with that? How far will the additional fish go?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

to be fair, I have a bit of sympathy for some of the NIMBYs, as the location of these parks haven´t been properly scrutinized

@paul moy I´m not against the idea of producing locally, but we have a lot to do in developing that area. Also, we are not self sufficient in food production, we need those imports. I think it was @keelansgrandad who mentioned returning to seasonal produce, this is fine,  but will people be happy with that? To improve food production we need to eat a lot less meat, will people be happy with that? How far will the additional fish go?

I understand your reticence HIWEM but food production changed to what it is now so it can change back.

I would wager most families are unaware how to make cheap meals that are nourishing and tasty. How many sit at the table and all eat the same food? Why buy Pizza when it is glorified Cheese on Toast?

Its just a matter of application. Supermarkets will bend to what we dictate.

[BroadstairsR 2,199]

Changes have been on the way for a decade and more. Nearby to Broadstairs is the vast Thanet Earth complex, described below:

https://www.thanetearth.com/

Neither can you cycle far in Kent without seeing either fields of glasshouses or rows of solar panels. I suppose this can also be viewed as, at least, one positive from global warming. 

We are all familiar with off-shore wind farms. I believe The Kentish Flats Farm off Whitstable to be the most extensive in the country.

Much of the work carried out at Thanet Earth with regards greenhouse agriculture is research and learned from the Low Countries.  The Dutch are and have been very active in making the most of resources since the great reclamation of the polders. Needs must. They've exhibited the same zeal with the fishing of the seas and their super trawlers.

The Dutch motto: "Luctor et Emergo," could well be an example for Bumbling Boris and his merry band of revolutionaries to follow.

Edited January 3, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[Well b back 3,274]

1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Yes, there is a better way, and we are now on that road thanks to Brexit.  The answer is to stop importing so much that we could produce here, and we did not have the incentive to do that while in the EU, but for sure we do now.  We should also heavily tax or even ban lorries that are only passing through using UK roads, such as those from Eire to the EU.  Let them use ferries  and hopefully this will also disincentivise Eire from their 'dirty' exports using our roads and correspondingly polluting and congesting our environment. We owe them nothing after the way they have disrespected us so deserve nothing less.

One of the reasons I was happy to vote for Boris in the last election was to give the British jobs, but when reality came into place in England ( can’t speak for the rest of the U.K.) nobody wanted the jobs ( and that was with huge numbers on furlough that could have made their wages up ). The farms could not keep up with the supply as nobody wanted the work.

86,000 NHS vacancies with nurses threatening to leave in their droves once the pandemic is over, and care home workers in short supply, suggests these jobs are under paid and under valued especially with the unemployment rates. Why not use the £350 million a week for the NHS to make these jobs more wanted by us English.

Was a great plan, but when push came to shove not sure these jobs that were being done by Europeans the British ever wanted. If these things were to be manufactured here, would there be thousands queueing up to do the work ? No idea, you ?

[paul moy 235]

35 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

to be fair, I have a bit of sympathy for some of the NIMBYs, as the location of these parks haven´t been properly scrutinized

@paul moy I´m not against the idea of producing locally, but we have a lot to do in developing that area. Also, we are not self sufficient in food production, we need those imports. I think it was @keelansgrandad who mentioned returning to seasonal produce, this is fine,  but will people be happy with that? To improve food production we need to eat a lot less meat, will people be happy with that? How far will the additional fish go?

Well, we are already self-sufficient in lamb (109% in 2019) and should be well on the way to being self-sufficient in fish within a few years.  I also know that we do produce food using hydroponic methods which avoids seasonality and there is no reason that this cannot be greatly  expanded, and we should have no shortage of fish fertiliser for that end as a by-product of a virtually new industry due to EU decimation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

 

[BigFish 1,988]

4 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Well, we are already self-sufficient in lamb (109% in 2019)

Moyo, you outdo even your record for stupidity. A few pages back you came up with the advantage that we could inport lamb tariff free from NZ now we are out of the SM & CU.

Today you claim with overproduce in the UK and that is an advantage.

So which is it?

[Well b back 3,274]

21 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Well, we are already self-sufficient in lamb (109% in 2019) and should be well on the way to being self-sufficient in fish within a few years.  I also know that we do produce food using hydroponic methods which avoids seasonality and there is no reason that this cannot be greatly  expanded, and we should have no shortage of fish fertiliser for that end as a by-product of a virtually new industry due to EU decimation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

 

As I asked in my last post, do British workers actually want to do this work ? It’s only a question I am not trying to catch you out.

[Well b back 3,274]

Be interesting to see how people vote in May. It will no longer be an opinion poll at that point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55521732

 

[A Load of Squit 5,214]

You've obviously missed the latest scientific research on the versatility of fish.

There's;

Fish petrol for cars

Fish insulin for diabetics.

Fish can be retrained as plumbers, care workers and Border Agency staff.

Fish ferries can be created by convincing 6 or more fish to swim very close to each other.

Fish fish for people who like to eat fish.

Fish teachers, fish spend a lot of time in schools.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Be interesting to see how people vote in May. It will no longer be an opinion poll at that point.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55521732

 

A landslide slam dunk SNP victory as seems likely with the plain maifesto commitment to a new indy referendum will as everybody knows make Johnsons current position untenable.

He better hope his mythical unicorns are actually real.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[Herman 9,820]

No matter how many times you tell him Moyo never seems to understand and it is positive that it is willfull ignorance. One last chance. Self sufficiency of fish isn't that big a problem. It's the British diet that is. We catch plenty of great seafood but,on the whole,the British only want to eat cod and tuna and other varieties that we need to largely import. If you can change our eating habits you may be onto a winner.

[sonyc 5,541]

1 minute ago, Yellow Fever said:

A landslide slam dunk SNP victory as seems likely with the plain maifesto commitment to a new indy referendum will as everybody knows make Johnsons current position untenable.

He better hope his mythical unicorns are actually real.

A Welsh independence vote has been offered by Plaid if they win the Senedd on May 11th. Within the next  few years.

Mind you, in the last poll only about a quarter would vote for it but views are changing about Westminster. Not sure as yet with any future independent Wales if would align itself with Europe.

[BigFish 1,988]

13 minutes ago, Well b back said:

As I asked in my last post, do British workers actually want to do this work ? It’s only a question I am not trying to catch you out.

That is one question WBB, another would be whether this work would be better done by machinary e.g. the UK invests, increases productivity, the jobs become redundant. The idea that they were stealing our jobs was always economically illiterate and usually plain racist. Raising the Living Wage to the Real LIving Wage would have enormous impact on the low skill, low productivity and low wage economy of this country.

[Well b back 3,274]

3 minutes ago, Herman said:

No matter how many times you tell him Moyo never seems to understand and it is positive that it is willfull ignorance. One last chance. Self sufficiency of fish isn't that big a problem. It's the British diet that is. We catch plenty of great seafood but,on the whole,the British only want to eat cod and tuna and other varieties that we need to largely import. If you can change our eating habits you may be onto a winner.

I like a nice bit of salmon. Does that mainly come from Scotland ? Could miss out on that if Sturgeon and Moy both get their way if it does.

[Well b back 3,274]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

That is one question WBB, another would be whether this work would be better done by machinary e.g. the UK invests, increases productivity, the jobs become redundant. The idea that they were stealing our jobs was always economically illiterate and usually plain racist. Raising the Living Wage to the Real LIving Wage would have enormous impact on the low skill, low productivity and low wage economy of this country.

And give our doctors and nurses ( ect ) and care workers a share of the £350 million a week that was promised to fill those posts and raise morale.

[BigFish 1,988]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

And give our doctors and nurses ( ect ) and care workers a share of the £350 million a week that was promised to fill those posts and raise morale.

😀.........I suspect you might be having a laugh

[A Load of Squit 5,214]

8 minutes ago, BigFish said:

That is one question WBB, another would be whether this work would be better done by machinary e.g. the UK invests, increases productivity, the jobs become redundant. The idea that they were stealing our jobs was always economically illiterate and usually plain racist. Raising the Living Wage to the Real LIving Wage would have enormous impact on the low skill, low productivity and low wage economy of this country.

Just supplement wages with the excess fish and lamb.

 

[paul moy 235]

46 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Moyo, you outdo even your record for stupidity. A few pages back you came up with the advantage that we could inport lamb tariff free from NZ now we are out of the SM & CU.

Today you claim with overproduce in the UK and that is an advantage.

So which is it?

The reason we are self-sufficient is that demand for lamb has fallen, probably due to the high cost as 75% tariffs are put on imported lamb from outside the EU. This may also have artificially inflated our own home-produced lamb prices, again reducing demand as consumer's avoid those high prices, as I tend to do also.  A drop in prices due to removal of tariffs and the corresponding additional price competition may well give elastic demand a boost which will mean that imports from NZ etc should increase to meet that additional demand.

Welsh farmers may not be happy but consumers will be, thanks to Brexit. 😎

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I understand your reticence HIWEM but food production changed to what it is now so it can change back.

I would wager most families are unaware how to make cheap meals that are nourishing and tasty. How many sit at the table and all eat the same food? Why buy Pizza when it is glorified Cheese on Toast?

Its just a matter of application. Supermarkets will bend to what we dictate.

I think it can change, and it's a good idea to focus on local seasonal produce

But I don't see that it can change far enough to support the population without imports, and I doubt some of the UK public will be happy without certain products 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

8 minutes ago, paul moy said:

The reason we are self-sufficient is that demand for lamb has fallen, probably due to the high cost as 75% tariffs are put on imported lamb from outside the EU. This may also have artificially inflated our own home-produced lamb prices, again reducing demand as consumer's avoid those high prices, as I tend to do also.  A drop in prices due to removal of tariffs and the corresponding additional price competition may well give elastic demand a boost which will mean that imports from NZ etc should increase to meet that additional demand.

Welsh farmers may not be happy but consumers will be, thanks to Brexit. 😎

 

What will happen to the viability of the Welsh farmers, and also the self sufficiency in lamb?

[paul moy 235]

27 minutes ago, Herman said:

No matter how many times you tell him Moyo never seems to understand and it is positive that it is willfull ignorance. One last chance. Self sufficiency of fish isn't that big a problem. It's the British diet that is. We catch plenty of great seafood but,on the whole,the British only want to eat cod and tuna and other varieties that we need to largely import. If you can change our eating habits you may be onto a winner.

I love sardines, trout, salmon, mackerel, kippers and crab, and I'm sure many others will, given the chance at good prices.   We have paid inflated prices for far too long and that has had a detrimental effect on home demand. What we do not want to eat we can freeze or can and sell abroad rather than stupidly allowing foreigners to do that to our own resources, as we have treacherously allowed under the EU CFP.  Fish is health food and we need a campaign to promote it for consumption in the UK now that we have regained proper access via Brexit. 

Open your own eyes wide rather than adopting the usual negative remoaner narrow vision.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Well, we are already self-sufficient in lamb (109% in 2019) and should be well on the way to being self-sufficient in fish within a few years.  I also know that we do produce food using hydroponic methods which avoids seasonality and there is no reason that this cannot be greatly  expanded, and we should have no shortage of fish fertiliser for that end as a by-product of a virtually new industry due to EU decimation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroponics

 

Thanks for the link about hydroponics 

I have had a quick look and see, unsurprisingly, it has benefits and drawbacks. Nevertheless, worth further development 

[paul moy 235]

2 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

What will happen to the viability of the Welsh farmers, and also the self sufficiency in lamb?

The market will decide.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

2 minutes ago, paul moy said:

I love sardines, trout, salmon, mackerel, kippers and crab, and I'm sure many others will, given the chance at good prices.   We have paid inflated prices for far too long and that has had a detrimental effect on home demand. What we do not want to eat we can freeze or can and sell abroad rather than stupidly allowing foreigners to do that to our own resources, as we have treacherously allowed under the EU CFP.  Fish is health food and we need a campaign to promote it for consumption in the UK now that we have regained proper access via Brexit. 

Open your own eyes wide rather than adopting the usual negative remoaner narrow vision.

Why have we been paying inflated prices for the fish we catch in our own waters?

[Well b back 3,274]

6 minutes ago, paul moy said:

I love sardines, trout, salmon, mackerel, kippers and crab, and I'm sure many others will, given the chance at good prices.   We have paid inflated prices for far too long and that has had a detrimental effect on home demand. What we do not want to eat we can freeze or can and sell abroad rather than stupidly allowing foreigners to do that to our own resources, as we have treacherously allowed under the EU CFP.  Fish is health food and we need a campaign to promote it for consumption in the UK now that we have regained proper access via Brexit. 

Open your own eyes wide rather than adopting the usual negative remoaner narrow vision.

Good job you don’t like ‘ Sturgeon ‘