The Positive Brexit Thread

[king canary 7,606]

Watching Roger Daltry getting annoyed at Brexit questions did make one thing stand out to me- I just can't get my head around the obsession some people have that we're being 'ruled over' by the EU. It certainly isn't the sense I get and my personal feeling is the EU has had very little influence on my day to day life. So why are so many (generally older) people so obsessed with this point?

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

"I apologise, you are quite correct. What I should've said is that we have left in name only and as we are in the transition period our ability to negotiate trade deals is curtailed by the terms of the transition agreement."

Is one possible answer. 😀

 

'Yes, of course, the UK has much more than merely technically or in name only left the EU. It is absolutely imperative to be correct on such matters, lest Brexit posters are given the chance to score cheap retaliatory points. The UK is no longer part of the EU's decision-making process because it is no longer a member state. It had, for example, no part in the EU's emergency talks on the Covid crisis.  On most of the important questions for the future of the EU the UK is already a third country.The significant exception, for the moment, is trade, but only because the UK is still in effect in the single market.'

Would be another response...🤓

 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

1 minute ago, PurpleCanary said:

'Yes, of course, the UK has much more than merely technically or in name only left the EU. It is absolutely imperative to be correct on such matters, lest Brexit posters are given the chance to score cheap retaliatory points. The UK is no longer part of the EU's decision-making process because it is no longer a member state. It had, for example, no part in the EU's emergency talks on the Covid crisis.  On most of the important questions for the future of the EU the UK is already a third country.The significant exception, for the moment, is trade, but only because the UK is still in effect in the single market.'

Would be another response...🤓

 

Gosh, who knew it would be so complicated?

 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Watching Roger Daltry getting annoyed at Brexit questions did make one thing stand out to me- I just can't get my head around the obsession some people have that we're being 'ruled over' by the EU. It certainly isn't the sense I get and my personal feeling is the EU has had very little influence on my day to day life. So why are so many (generally older) people so obsessed with this point?

He's just talkin' about his generation.

 

[BigFish 1,987]

54 minutes ago, king canary said:

Watching Roger Daltry getting annoyed at Brexit questions did make one thing stand out to me- I just can't get my head around the obsession some people have that we're being 'ruled over' by the EU. It certainly isn't the sense I get and my personal feeling is the EU has had very little influence on my day to day life. So why are so many (generally older) people so obsessed with this point?

It's a generational thing really. Most Brexiteers are Boomers who grew up on a diet of war films, a flukey World Cup win in 1966 and native exceptionalism. When in turned out that the UK wasn't particularly exceptional they didn't have the historical knowledge to process this. It was difficult the explain how losers like Japan and Germany developed into Economic powerhouses. Or how the 9 EU countries prior to the UK joining could have higher standards of living than us Brits. Unless or course these foreigners were being underhand and when we joined attempting to rule over us. Supposedly they must be jealous of the UK and trying to hold the country back. That these boomers were white also meant that waves of firstly Carribbean, then Asian and finally European immigrants provided useful scapegoats for life not being quite what they expected, e.g. the 1960s.

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

Watching Roger Daltry getting annoyed at Brexit questions did make one thing stand out to me- I just can't get my head around the obsession some people have that we're being 'ruled over' by the EU. It certainly isn't the sense I get and my personal feeling is the EU has had very little influence on my day to day life. So why are so many (generally older) people so obsessed with this point?

Roger will find out that the new boss is the same as the old boss and he will get fooled again.

[Herman 9,765]

Has Rees-Mogg made anyone else ill today? 

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

Has Rees-Mogg made anyone else ill today? 

I always feel ill when he appears.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

It's a generational thing really. Most Brexiteers are Boomers who grew up on a diet of war films, a flukey World Cup win in 1966 and native exceptionalism. When in turned out that the UK wasn't particularly exceptional they didn't have the historical knowledge to process this. It was difficult the explain how losers like Japan and Germany developed into Economic powerhouses. Or how the 9 EU countries prior to the UK joining could have higher standards of living than us Brits. Unless or course these foreigners were being underhand and when we joined attempting to rule over us. Supposedly they must be jealous of the UK and trying to hold the country back. That these boomers were white also meant that waves of firstly Carribbean, then Asian and finally European immigrants provided useful scapegoats for life not being quite what they expected, e.g. the 1960s.

WOW! Both barrels and then a reload. You really don't like my generation,👨‍🦽 do you BF!

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

8 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

WOW! Both barrels and then a reload. You really don't like my generation,👨‍🦽 do you BF!

I prefer Baba O'Riley, I can't explain why though.

[Mr Angry 1,561]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

Watching Roger Daltry getting annoyed at Brexit questions did make one thing stand out to me- I just can't get my head around the obsession some people have that we're being 'ruled over' by the EU. It certainly isn't the sense I get and my personal feeling is the EU has had very little influence on my day to day life. So why are so many (generally older) people so obsessed with this point?

I heard a phone-in on the radio before the referendum, lots of people were saying that they had been lied to before the 1975 referendum-I can’t remember who by or what about!-so they were going to vote leave this time, just on principle.

[BigFish 1,987]

2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

WOW! Both barrels and then a reload. You really don't like my generation,👨‍🦽 do you BF!

I think you know that this was a broad brush generalisation of the cohort within your generation that hold to that particularly virulant branch of Brexit ideology, @PurpleCanary. Never crossed my mind that you might think it included you (I think you don't and it doesn't). 😀

[Herman 9,765]

Project f.......ffs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html

[Mr Angry 1,561]

57 minutes ago, Herman said:

Project f.......ffs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html

Not good-I hope someone who knows what they’re doing starts a Change.org petition about this 👍👍👍

Although if the products are labelled then you can avoid stuff like this.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Mr Angry
Added 2nd line

[Yellow Fever 3,784]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

I think you know that this was a broad brush generalisation of the cohort within your generation that hold to that particularly virulant branch of Brexit ideology, @PurpleCanary. Never crossed my mind that you might think it included you (I think you don't and it doesn't). 😀

I think there is quite a lot of truth in what BF says - I've said as much myself.

I was brought up with 2 or 3 b/w 405 TV channels (remember the 405/625 switch - new aerials!) with the old WW2 (How we won the war) films being the staple diet for films! Mainly propaganda or 'spun' truths (I see that even the rather later "HMS Amethyst" did indeed ram a Chinese junk.. now admitted). Japan made junky cheap cars .... Russia was the enemy and China  - well that really was the third world and viewed as we might think of N.Korea today. Times change but it seems many of us never had it so good boomers don't.

However, I suspect to borrow a younger generation phrase for CV-19 pandemic I heard recently 'the 'Boomer Remover'  - plus the Brexit fiasco - will usher in a "Brave New World" for the UK England and many an old myth will finally pass into ancient history about 'Great' Britain' where it belongs   - and many of our generations decisions will be air-brushed from history in embarressment.

It's happened before!

[Yellow Fever 3,784]

3 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Not good-I hope someone who knows what they’re doing starts a Change.org petition about this 👍👍👍

Although if the products are labelled then you can avoid stuff like this.

If there are 'diminishing' tariffs it will at least give our farmers time to make an orderly exit from agriculture except for a few niche markets.

[sonyc 5,518]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Project f.......ffs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html

This was the story that I read two weeks ago, that the Cummings scandal was the perfect distraction for votes going through in the background effectively selling off the agricultural industry via these kinds of deals. Lots of jokes were made about chicken in the CV thread (humour is often used as a defence) but it's actually a serious matter. A very worrying development, less for chicken but more about forcing British farmers into lowering prices (literally into the ground), selling off land to developers and financiers, accepting lower quality imports and again forcing farmers into tighter profit margins. 

It's not like folk didn't know this might happen but now we have a very hard Brexity cabal of a government forging this through. No deal looks odds-on too. We look, to all the world, like we are selling Britain off piece by piece. Very sad times. And surely not what people who voted Brexit wanted, indeed it's the opposite 

Edited June 4, 2020 by sonyc

[Herman 9,765]

Unfortunately sonyc the same people that were making jokes about chicken are the same ones that were telling us on this thread that we were scaremongering about toxic food. I'm not sure how many thing we've warned people about are going to come true now, but it has been depressing how another excuse is easily peddled out.

[Bill 1,788]

6 hours ago, BigFish said:

It's a generational thing really. Most Brexiteers are Boomers who grew up on a diet of war films, a flukey World Cup win in 1966 and native exceptionalism. When in turned out that the UK wasn't particularly exceptional they didn't have the historical knowledge to process this. It was difficult the explain how losers like Japan and Germany developed into Economic powerhouses. Or how the 9 EU countries prior to the UK joining could have higher standards of living than us Brits. Unless or course these foreigners were being underhand and when we joined attempting to rule over us. Supposedly they must be jealous of the UK and trying to hold the country back. That these boomers were white also meant that waves of firstly Carribbean, then Asian and finally European immigrants provided useful scapegoats for life not being quite what they expected, e.g. the 1960s.

I think it is more to do with a reaction to a changing country.

Much of what they see as 'certainties' have been swept away. The country is longer  'white' and various ;restrictions; are seen as an unnecessary imposition

On the basis of those perceptions it is not too difficult to put up a common cause, and easy explanation. In this case, the EU. A sort of malevolent Big Brother. Unelected and unaccountable, prone to issuing nonsensical edicts - that can be recounted as evidence. That none of them are true as incanted is never question, or accepted when shown to be.

Unfortunately being 'young' when the massive changes happened in the 1960's they have little recollection of what went before that. So just as their elders could only see the drugs, mod and rockers fighting and men looking like women - so the brexiteer generation can only see the 'wrongs of today  that are fed to them on a daily basis.

They will not see the contradictions, just as in the US where Walmart seems to serve what might be thought Trump supporters - none who appear to grasp any correlation between cheap goods and cheap Chines labour, How many will expect to buy cheap meat for the 4th July, yet then bemoan immigrant Mexican labour .....who are used to process that meat, is always going to be a difficult argument to counter those who deliberately put out ignorance and lies (Swindon0 Try having a reasoned debate with a member of ISIS or some fundamentalist Christian in the US. And you will meet the same closed mind as the brexiteer.

But the comfort is that what reasoned argument cannot acgieve the march of time will.

[Herman 9,765]

34 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Not good-I hope someone who knows what they’re doing starts a Change.org petition about this 👍👍👍

Although if the products are labelled then you can avoid stuff like this.

The trouble is is that the stuff coming in can easily get lost in the system and the small print and that is why the EU were worried and wanted border checks. 100 chicken legs could come in in a big box, split up in little,2,4 or 6 piece packages and hey presto a large "packaged in Britain" sticker can be slapped on the front.

[Bill 1,788]

25 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 but more about forcing British farmers into lowering prices (literally into the ground), selling off land to developers and financiers, accepting lower quality imports and again forcing farmers into tighter profit margins.

[Bill 1,788]

29 minutes ago, sonyc said:

. And surely not what people who voted Brexit wanted, indeed it's the opposite 

What they wanted is the LIE they were sold.

The LIE that was repeatedly pointed out to be a LIE because it could not be delivered. The explanation of that was there for all to read.

Rather than engage, they chose to bleat out vacuous slogans

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

The trouble is is that the stuff coming in can easily get lost in the system and the small print and that is why the EU were worried and wanted border checks. 100 chicken legs could come in in a big box, split up in little,2,4 or 6 piece packages and hey presto a large "packaged in Britain" sticker can be slapped on the front.

Yes indeed, or made into chicken pies etc on which the ingredients will just read 'chicken'.

Basically, if this goes ahead then both British farmers and British consumers are screwed 😟

[Bill 1,788]

That Johnson now appears to be ripping up the 'promise' that the UK would not allow this filth into the country, that is not the real proble. Johnson is a liar. Someone not to be trusted - so shame on those who were stupid enough not to think he would not lie again.

This the REAL problem. One that I have been consistent in raising

"The US government also officially considers country-of-origin labelling a barrier to trade, suggesting it is likely to push for such practices to be outlawed in a free trade agreement. This would make it impossible for consumers to tell whether their product had been sourced from the US."

There is also a demand from the US to lower other information on labels, that the naughty EU require. As if anyone is interested in the amount of sugar, fats, e numbers and such like that are in the item 🤔

Of course cynics (and me) will claim that this was the intention all the time. Why so many Conservative MPs have paid 'consultancy' with US food manufacturers.

They might further add that with Cummings on board to tell the Conservatives what slogans work, as with brexit, they can win by lying - then to hell with promises, claims and intentions afterwards.

Thankfully, no one said at the time this is how it will pan out (except quite a few of us)

So suck it up brexiteers - you've been had real, big time.

[Icecream Snow 761]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

Project f.......ffs.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html

Liz Truss is so right wing, that Gove, Eustice and Villiers have been briefing the press on the damage to UK farmers.

[Mr Angry 1,561]

I’ve been having a Thursday night Zoom meeting with my friends, including a recently retired civil servant-I’ll be quizzing him on this tonight.

[Bill 1,788]

6 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Liz Truss is so right wing, that Gove, Eustice and Villiers have been briefing the press on the damage to UK farmers.

George Eustice.... damage to UK farmers

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Herman 9,765]

26 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Liz Truss is so right wing, that Gove, Eustice and Villiers have been briefing the press on the damage to UK farmers.

I've mentioned the book before in respect to the NHS, but Truss was another of the authors of Brittania Unchained, alongside Raab, Patel, Skidmore and Kwarteng. I'll leave up the top reviews from Amazon to show you who and how long this has been planned. They were not expecting to win Brexit but they are now using it to their full advantage and the British have walked straight into it.

"All of the five free-market Thatcherites that contributed to 'Britannia Unchained'(2012) now have key roles in an extremely rightwing, hard Brexit, Boris Johnson government elected on December 12, 2019 with an 80-seat majority largely contributed by the English electorate.
It's terrifying to contemplate this group of ideological, economic illiterates in power for another 5 years determined to make the rich even richer and the poor even poorer." Jazzrook

"The best things about this book are definitely the title and the illustration on the cover of Britannia shielding herself from the world. I wish Dominic Raab, Priti Patel, Kwasi Karteng, Chris Skidmore and Liz Truss had been more open about who wrote which chapter. (I guess Priti penned the one on Israel. But whose proofreading let all those typos through?) Anyway, since this 116 page, 6 chapter volume is talked up as the blueprint for post Brexit Britain, I thought I should read it. Apparently the UK needs: the banks of Canada, the geekish quality of tech people from India, the work ethic of Singaporeans, the optimism of Brazilians, and the Research and Development capabilities of Israel in order to get on. Coupled with these qualities from around the world, the authors argue for large-scale state deregulation and elimination of intrusive protections of workers and the environment, more tolerance for bankrupt companies, and less government support for the ill, the old, and the unemployed. They suggest it's good for parents to pay for extra maths and science tuition for their children, and they appear to condemn popular celebrity culture in Britain, too. There are 15 pages of notes on the chapters, along with a four page bibliography and an eight page index. This brings the total number of pages up to 144. With a cover price of 15.99, that means just over 11 pence per page. For what it's worth, I'd suggest buying it second hand, if at all." Bill Bowler.

[Bill 1,788]

Within this waffle is a clear statement that the government 'will not institute checks between NI and Britain (40 secs)

which yet again poses the question

Johnson - Joker or Knave ?

Was he lying, or just so stupid that he did not understand what he was saying ?

My thought now is that he was knowingly lying. Part of the flood of lies put out to win the 2019 election

I would say....suck it up righties

....but I think it is more a case of 'eat it up', as your betters intend to flood the UK market with dirty and unsafe food

 

[Bill 1,788]

10 minutes ago, Herman said:

the authors argue for large-scale state deregulation and elimination of intrusive protections of workers and the environment, more tolerance for bankrupt companies, and less government support for the ill, the old, and the unemployed.

all of which was consistently flagged up by those who could see through the lies put out by these people

sadly it is only now that the truth is emerging, that the dimwits are beginning to grasp they have been conned

as with realising that an angler putting a worm on a hook may have other ideas for the fish than feeding it