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The Brexit Thread

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6 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Is this all true?

Has anything the Tories have said (whether politicians, media outlets or gullible idiots like Swindon) during this campaign been true?

Boris, the liar-in-chief has achieved a pretty much perfect 100% lie rating on his public appearances but that's only on the questions he's answered, and of course he refuses to answer any slightly tricky ones.

He obviously doesn't rate himself as a good enough liar to tackle those.

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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

They've plateaued and can't wring out anymore from the BC or LDs.Interesting.

Here's an interesting article on tactical voting which could change the odd seat.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tactical-voters-could-deny-boris-johnson-majority-75z2fb6bh

When they start talking about tactical voting you know they realise they can't win.

It's going to be a Tory majority isn't it?

 

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We've always known we can't win outright . The remain vote is split. The leave vote has congealed around the tories. So tactical it has been. 

Edited by Herman

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

It's something that has been doing the rounds on fakebook and forums. It doesn't matter if any of it is true as most people haven't got the time to check it all or even care to check it. There's been a lot of this sort of social media propaganda and Brexit highlighted how much of it is out there and how people like Swindon lap it up. Scary times.

That's another area to be tightened up - it's either "social" or "media" - if you are "social media" then you are "media", and that means you have responsibility for what is published. 

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33 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Has anything the Tories have said (whether politicians, media outlets or gullible idiots like Swindon) during this campaign been true?

Boris, the liar-in-chief has achieved a pretty much perfect 100% lie rating on his public appearances but that's only on the questions he's answered, and of course he refuses to answer any slightly tricky ones.

He obviously doesn't rate himself as a good enough liar to tackle those.

Ok, but is this true?  Has he done the things he is accused of here?

Edited by Barbe bleu

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29 minutes ago, ricardo said:

When they start talking about tactical voting you know they realise they can't win.

It's going to be a Tory majority isn't it?

 

Has always been a Brexit election. 

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

We've always known we can't win outright . The remain vote is split. The leave vote has congealed around the tories. So tactical it has been. 

Indeed, the Tories don't have a majority of the votes, they only have a plurality, and that is because the anti-Tory vote is split. It's our FPTP system that converts a non-majority into a large majority of seats and hence confers a "mandate" - which Boris will no doubt claim to impose a host of non-disclosed policies on the country if he gets a 40 seat majority.

So absent a PR system tactical voting is a sensible strategy to limit single party control. 

 

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39 minutes ago, ricardo said:

When they start talking about tactical voting you know they realise they can't win.

It's going to be a Tory majority isn't it?

 

There are going to be a few bitter pills next Friday.

Lessons in democracy are not always easy to swallow.

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If the Tories do win a 40 seat majority then we can thank the Lib Dems. Pushing for an election before Brexit plans were understood to be a disaster allowed Boris to go to the country arguing there was just one critical issue to be resolved. Now the Lib Dems can whine and moan for the next 5 years about how terribly the Tories have messed up Britain post Brexit, but just like over austerity, they will be remembered as the party that bailed on holding Tory feet to the fire in Oct 2019. Perhaps the voters will yet bail them out. 

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8 minutes ago, Surfer said:

If the Tories do win a 40 seat majority then we can thank the Lib Dems. Pushing for an election before Brexit plans were understood to be a disaster allowed Boris to go to the country arguing there was just one critical issue to be resolved. Now the Lib Dems can whine and moan for the next 5 years about how terribly the Tories have messed up Britain post Brexit, but just like over austerity, they will be remembered as the party that bailed on holding Tory feet to the fire in Oct 2019. Perhaps the voters will yet bail them out. 

For all of the eleven elections I've voted in the left/centre vote has been split while the right wing vote has had a single party, the Tories. Why Labour haven't understood that they need to embrace PR I will never understand. 

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3 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Hello, My name is Jeremy Corbyn and I would like to apply for the job as Prime Minister of the UK.

Please see my CV:-

Education Primary: Castle House School, an independent preparatory school near Newport, Shropshire.

Education Secondary: Adams' Grammar School Newport two A-Levels, at grade E, (the lowest pass)

University: Nil

Professional achievements:
Invited two IRA members to parliament two weeks after the Brighton bombing.  TRUE
Attended Bloody Sunday commemoration with bomber Brendan McKenna.      TRUE
Attended meeting with Provisional IRA member Raymond McCartney.      TRUE
Hosted IRA linked Mitchell McLaughlin in parliament.
Spoke alongside IRA terrorist Martina Anderson.         TRUE
Attended Sinn Fein dinner with IRA bomber Gerry Kelly.     TRUE
Chaired Irish republican event with IRA bomber Brendan MacFarlane.
Attended Bobby Sands commemoration honouring IRA terrorists.   TRUE
Stood in minute’s silence for IRA gunmen shot dead by the SAS.    TRUE
Refused to condemn the IRA in Sky News interview.    TRUE
Refused to condemn the IRA on Question Time.    TRUE
Refused to condemn IRA violence in BBC radio interview.    TRUE
Signed a Parliamentary Early Day Motion after IRA Poppy massacre blaming Britain for the deaths.
Arrested while protesting in support of Brighton bomber’s co-defendants.    TRUE
Lobbied government to improve visiting conditions for IRA killers.   TRUE
Attended Irish republican event calling for armed conflict against Britain.
Hired suspected IRA man Ronan Bennett as a parliamentary assistant.
Hired another aide closely linked to several convicted IRA terrorists.
Didn’t support IRA ceasefire.
Said Hamas and Hezbollah are his “friends“.     TRUE
Called for Hamas to be removed from terror banned list.
Called Hamas “serious and hard-working“.
Attended wreath-laying at grave of Munich Olympics massacre terrorist.    TRUE
Attended rally with Hezbollah and Al-Muhajiroun.
Repeatedly shared platforms with PFLP plane hijacker.
Hired aide who praised Hamas’ “spirit of resistance“.
Accepted £20,000 for state TV channel of terror-sponsoring Iranian regime.   TRUE
Opposed banning Britons from travelling to Syria to fight for ISIS.
Defended rights of fighters returning from Syria.     TRUE
Said ISIS supporters should not be prosecuted.
Compared fighters returning from Syria to Nelson Mandela.   TRUE
Said the death of Osama Bin Laden was a “tragedy“.           TRUE
Wouldn’t sanction drone strike to kill ISIS leader and said he should be arrested.     TRUE
Voted to allow ISIS fighters to return from Syria.
Attended event organised by terrorist sympathising IHRC.
Signed letter defending Lockerbie bombing suspects.    TRUE
Wrote letter in support of conman accused of fundraising for ISIS.
Spoke of “friendship” with Mo Kozbar, who called for destruction of Israel.
Attended event with Abdullah Djaballah, who called for holy war against UK.
Boasted about “opposing anti-terror legislation”.
Said laws banning jihadis from returning to Britain are “strange”.
Accepted £5,000 donation from terror supporter Ted Honderich.
Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.      TRUE
Accepted two more trips from the pro-Hamas group PRC.
Speaker at conference hosted by pro-Hamas group MEMO.
Met Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh several times.
Hosted meeting with Mousa Abu Maria of banned group Islamic Jihad.
Patron of Palestine Solidarity Campaign – marches attended by Hezbollah.
Compared Israel to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Qaeda.
Said we should not make “value judgements” about Britons who fight for ISIS.
Received endorsement from Hamas.
Attended event with Islamic extremist Suliman Gani.
Chaired Stop the War, who praised “internationalism and solidarity” of ISIS.     TRUE
Praised Raed Salah, who was jailed for inciting violence in Israel.
Signed letter defending jihadist advocacy group Cage.
Met Dyab Jahjah, who praised the killing of British soldiers.      TRUE
Shared platform with representative of extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Compared ISIS to US military in interview on Russia Today.
Opposed proscription of Hizb UT-Tahrir.
Attended conference which called on Iraqis to kill British soldiers.
Attended Al-Quds Day demonstration in support of destruction of Israel.
Supported Hamas and ISIS-linked Viva Palestina group.
Attended protest with Islamic extremist Moazzam Begg.
Made the “case for Iran” at event hosted by Khomeinist group.
Photographed smiling with Azzam Tamimi, who backed suicide bombings.    TRUE
Photographed with Abdel Atwan, who sympathised with attacks on US troops.
Said Hamas should “have tea with the Queen”.
Attended ‘Meet the Resistance’ event with Hezbollah MP Hussein El Haj.
Attended event with Haifa Zangana, who praised Palestinian “mujahideen”.
Defended the infamous anti-Semitic Hamas supporter Stephen Sizer.
Attended event with pro-Hamas and Hezbollah group Naturei Karta.
Backed Holocaust denying anti-Zionist extremist Paul Eisen.
Photographed with Abdul Raoof Al Shayeb, later jailed for terror offences.
Mocked “anti-terror hysteria” while opposing powers for security services.
Named on speakers list for conference with Hamas sympathiser Ismail Patel.
Criticised drone strike that killed Jihadi John.
Said the 7/7 bombers had been denied “hope and opportunity”.
Said 9/11 was “manipulated” to make it look like bin Laden was responsible and failed to unequivocally condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Called Columbian terror group M-19 “comrades”.
Blamed beheading of Alan Henning on Britain.   TRUE
Gave speech in support of Gaddafi regime.
Blamed Tunisia terror attack on “austerity”.
Voted against banning support for the IRA.   TRUE
Voted against the Prevention of Terrorism Act three times during the Troubles.     TRUE
Voted against emergency counter-terror laws after 9/11.       TRUE
Voted against stricter punishments for being a member of a terror group.
Voted against criminalising the encouragement of terrorism.
Voted against banning al-Qaeda.    TRUE
Voted against outlawing the glorification of terror.
Voted against control orders.
Voted against increased funding for the security services to combat terrorism.  TRUE

Do please elect me as your Prime Minister.
        🤣

Those I put 'true' next to, can be easily demeaned as TRUE  just by googling it, I'm sure if you look up the others you'll find them true as well.

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Get Brexit done: It will not mean anything of the sort. It will mean years of detailed negotiations around getting Brexit done: i.e. how do we put our international trading relationships back together again and lots of arguments over which group of UK citizens will be sacrificed to achieve those new deals. 

So see Page 48 of the manifesto, it’s obvious that to achieve quick results there will be a need to “streamline processes” i.e. allow the PM greater “executive authority” to “negotiate and conclude” agreements “on behalf of the British People and not for Parliament” to “strike while the iron is hot” to “fulfill our mandate” to “get Brexit done” - and welcome to all sorts of shady deals around “freeports” where ordinary employment rules and tax regulations can now be suspended for those with the right political connections, and local governments will have to subsidize those “ports” which will likely pop up everywhere. 

As Churchill said - 

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end, but it is perhaps the end of the beginning" 

Edited by Surfer

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9 hours ago, Van wink said:

There are going to be a few bitter pills next Friday.

Lessons in democracy are not always easy to swallow.

You RWNJs don't get democracy do you? You seem to think it simply means voting for something and that's it.

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9 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Those I put 'true' next to, can be easily demeaned as TRUE  just by googling it, I'm sure if you look up the others you'll find them true as well.

Hang on. It's not up to us to spend hours googling stuff, that you have posted, to find out if they are true or not. It's up to you to make sure the stuff is factual before you post it all over the place. If you can't verify or even put up sources, then don't post up the crap in the first place.

 

Having done a bit of research the initial list comes from our old friend Guido, which lifts some of the stories from our old friend Guido, with links also to the Express, Belfast Newsletter, Telegraph, Indy and the Mail. An Phoblacht, a left Irish newsletter the only one not having an anti-Corbyn slant to it.

Edited by Herman

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Hang on. It's not up to us to spend hours googling stuff, that you have posted, to find out if they are true or not. It's up to you to make sure the stuff is factual before you post it all over the place. If you can't verify or even put up sources, then don't post up the crap in the first place.

I took this connected two at random:

Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.      TRUE

Interpal is not a banned organisation or an Islamist organisation. It is a UK charity which works to alleviate the plight of Palestinians and has has been investigated three times by the Charity Commission and cleared of any wrongdoing or misuse of funds.

This year the Jewish Chronicle, having lost a libel action for having accused it of having terrorist links, accepted that "neither Interpal, nor its trustees, have ever been involved with or provided support for terrorist activity of any kind.' Another case, out of several Interpal has won, involved the British Board of Jewish Deputies making the same acknowledgement.

The only countries that have outlawed Interpal are the US and Israel, plus Australia and Canada, for supposedly funding Hamas, but the Charity Commission said the US had provided no evidence to back up its claim. And Israel and the US will ban or badmouth any organisation that aims to help the Palestinians.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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13 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I took this connected two at random:

Accepted £2,800 trip to Gaza from banned Islamist organisation Interpal.
Called Ibrahim Hewitt, extremist and chair of Interpal, a “very good friend”.      TRUE

Interpal is not a banned organisation or an Islamist organisation. It is a UK charity which works to alleviate the plight of Palestinians and has has been investigated three times by the Charity Commission and cleared of any wrongdoing or misuse of funds.

This year the Jewish Chronicle, having lost a libel action for having accused it of having terrorist links, accepted that "neither Interpal, nor its trustees, have ever been involved with or provided support for terrorist activity of any kind.' Another case, out of several Interpal has won, involved the British Board of Jewish Deputies making the same acknowledgement.

The only countries that have outlawed Interpal are the US and Israel, plus Australia and Canada, for supposedly funding Hamas, but the Charity Commission said the US had provided no evidence to back up its claim. And Israel and the US will ban or badmouth any organisation that aims to help the Palestinians.

Thanks for that Purple, I presume further investigation into many of the other claims would throw up similar outcomes.

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19 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

Thanks for that Purple, I presume further investigation into many of the other claims would throw up similar outcomes.

I would think so but life is too short to check every one of Swindon's 'facts'. I should say I hadn't heard of Interpal and genuinely took those linked claims at random.

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59 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

?

What does "demeaned as true" mean?

You are trying to converse with the biggest FVCKWIT and PROVEN LIAR on these boards.

I would give it up if I were you Elastic.

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This will be the week that thousands of dubious posts, links, targetted ads and numerous other dishonest rubbish will be dumped on fakebook/twitter accounts so be wary and call it out when you see it. People like Swindo will be posting it with no concerns of truth.

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

You RWNJs don't get democracy do you? You seem to think it simply means voting for something and that's it.

It also means accepting the result when you have lost.

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It's going to be a Tory majority isn't it?

It does look like it. I think from canvassing that the LibDems will not be tactical enough. The LibDem voters are now full of disappointed Tories who want to Remain. But they will never vote Labour no matter how tactical it may be. They want remain but not Corbyn.

I understand that we do need a settled Governmental system and that there are businesses that do require some clarity on the future and a degree of certainty. I just hope tha majority is small enough for Johnson to realise that he cannot continue to lie like he has and he has to govern. He has had it too easy. He became PM on one subject and knows that he can lie and mislead because he will have a period of grace from the public when we finally leave the EU. But he has to govern and negotiate which the spoilt brat hasn't had to do so far. I think he will struggle.

It also means accepting the result when you have lost.

To be fair, the Tories didn't did they. They won the referendum but didn't accept the result which was May's deal. And they were the ones, including the PM, who voted it down so many times.

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2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It also means accepting the result when you have lost.

FFS, how many times do we have to do this. To some extent you have to accept the result, which everybody did, but as overwhelming evidence shows the result was corrupted then you have the right, and responsibilty, to overturn or try some way to legitimise the result. Another referendum with ALL the real evidence being an example.

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10 minutes ago, Herman said:

FFS, how many times do we have to do this. To some extent you have to accept the result, which everybody did, but as overwhelming evidence shows the result was corrupted then you have the right, and responsibilty, to overturn or try some way to legitimise the result. Another referendum with ALL the real evidence being an example.

Remainers have tried to frustrate it at every turn.

Nobody is going to stop you campaigning to rejoin.

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14 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

It's going to be a Tory majority isn't it?

It does look like it. I think from canvassing that the LibDems will not be tactical enough. The LibDem voters are now full of disappointed Tories who want to Remain. But they will never vote Labour no matter how tactical it may be. They want remain but not Corbyn.

I understand that we do need a settled Governmental system and that there are businesses that do require some clarity on the future and a degree of certainty. I just hope tha majority is small enough for Johnson to realise that he cannot continue to lie like he has and he has to govern. He has had it too easy. He became PM on one subject and knows that he can lie and mislead because he will have a period of grace from the public when we finally leave the EU. But he has to govern and negotiate which the spoilt brat hasn't had to do so far. I think he will struggle.

It also means accepting the result when you have lost.

To be fair, the Tories didn't did they. They won the referendum but didn't accept the result which was May's deal. And they were the ones, including the PM, who voted it down so many times.

Had Labour honoured their pledge on Brexit this election might easily have been fought on more favourable ground and for them, had a more favourable result. That miscalculation is now going to cost them heavily.

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8 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Remainers have tried to frustrate it at every turn.

Nobody is going to stop you campaigning to rejoin.

Oh do sod off. The same old whiny RWNJ nonsense. No accepting your own incompetence, the fact you were promised unicorns (nb: there are no unicorns), the fact you didn't have the basis of any plan or any slightest understanding of the complexities of us leaving the EU.What Remainers have basically done over the last three years is point out facts. You don't like facts so you blame everyone else for your own idiocy.

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42 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It also means accepting the result when you have lost.

This has been done before, but lets give it another go. If the result had been the other way, would brexiteers have accepted it? I think not, judging by Farage´s comment

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

the last part of that comment is of interest too. Farage has confirmed today that the Brexit Party will be renamed The Reform Party after the UK exits the EU, and will campaign for voting reform. You might remember we had a referendum about that. We voted for the status quo by two-thirds to one-third....

hypocrisy?

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8 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

This has been done before, but lets give it another go. If the result had been the other way, would brexiteers have accepted it? I think not, judging by Farage´s comment

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

the last part of that comment is of interest too. Farage has confirmed today that the Brexit Party will be renamed The Reform Party after the UK exits the EU, and will campaign for voting reform. You might remember we had a referendum about that. We voted for the status quo by two-thirds to one-third....

hypocrisy?

Nothing to prevent people campaigning for whatever they want. Referendums were promised by governments of both left and right but never delivered. We only got one this time because they thought they would easily win it.

As for voting reform, we have already had a referendum on that. Strangely Labour only want that when they know they can't win through the present system. The AV system was a total abortion in any event.

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