Badger 2,745 Posted May 15, 2018 http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11096/11373570/sky-sports-ultimate-league-201718-overachieving-and-underachieving-clubs-revealed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GenerationA47 864 Posted May 15, 2018 Very interesting- surprised we are so high at 17th, given our many 2nd tier seasons Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich T The Biscuit 676 Posted May 15, 2018 Don’t mind saying it, I have no idea what that is telling me or is based on?!How can Ip5w1ch be above us, they haven’t been nearThe top flight since forever? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,745 Posted May 16, 2018 It is based on average league position for the last 50 years. In other words, it compares your current league position against your league position based upon the average of the last 50 years.Our average League position over 50 years is 22.5, which is the 17th highest score. This means that we have been the 17th most successful team (based upon league position) for the last 50 years. This year we finished 34th, giving us an underachievement score of -17. To be fair to Farke, even if he had got us automatic promotion, we would have had a negative score!As you say, Ipswich are marginally above us. They had a lot of success in the 1970s/ 80s, which explains this. Interestingly, to me anyway, it shows that historically we are a more successful team than the likes of West Brom, Derby, QPR, Stoke, Sunderland, Palace, Wolves, Birmingham.I thought it is an interesting contribution to the "what is our natural position" argument etc. Given the response, seems that I am in a minority though[:(] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,273 Posted May 16, 2018 It is very interesting and I wouldn''t have expected us to be so high as it''s a span of the last 50 years.If it had been over the last 25 then perhaps we would be even higher then. (With my well-justified sense of entitlement being encouraged further.) It''s our recent history you know. ITFC would be nowhere to be seen obviously. ''Lil ''ol Ipswich then and Delia has surely got it wrong about her own club.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 8,034 Posted May 16, 2018 [quote user=" Badger"]It is based on average league position for the last 50 years. In other words, it compares your current league position against your league position based upon the average of the last 50 years.Our average League position over 50 years is 22.5, which is the 17th highest score. This means that we have been the 17th most successful team (based upon league position) for the last 50 years. This year we finished 34th, giving us an underachievement score of -17. To be fair to Farke, even if he had got us automatic promotion, we would have had a negative score!As you say, Ipswich are marginally above us. They had a lot of success in the 1970s/ 80s, which explains this. Interestingly, to me anyway, it shows that historically we are a more successful team than the likes of West Brom, Derby, QPR, Stoke, Sunderland, Palace, Wolves, Birmingham.I thought it is an interesting contribution to the "what is our natural position" argument etc. Given the response, seems that I am in a minority though[:(][/quote]Bottom half of the Prem to top half of the Champs is what I would and have said and that looks about right for the last 50 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,762 Posted May 16, 2018 Surprisingly high actually.Some big clubs below us. Maybe all our owners have been good...even Chase? ;)There you go Badger, that''ll get Vince interested and youll have a 12 pager in no time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,035 Posted May 17, 2018 A table like this stands or falls by the length of time taken into account ....this has chosen 50 yearsHowever since 1986....ipswich have been in the top division of English football for 5 out of 32 seasons compared to our 14 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GenerationA47 864 Posted May 17, 2018 Broadstairs: "If it had been over the last 25 then perhaps we would be even higher then."We would be very much lower. For example, the vast majority of our 1st tier time in the last 50 years was in the late 70s, 80s and early 90s. Excluding finishes before 1994 from the stats would leave us with only the 6 top tier seasons in that time (''94, ''95, ''05, ''12, ''13 & ''16). The rest have been 18 seasons in 2nd tier and the one in the 3rd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,751 Posted May 17, 2018 Putting the cat among the pigeons but...If you average out the 22 seasons under our current ownership then our average position is 27.9. So we''ve been below the 50 year average in there tenure... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,273 Posted May 17, 2018 "Broadstairs: "If it had been over the last 25 then perhaps we would be even higher then."We would be very much lower. For example, the vast majority of our 1st tier time in the last 50 years was in the late 70s, 80s and early 90s."Oh! Yeah. Tempus fugit. Noddy thinking (2018-25 = 1993.) Proves that nothing is proven since it depends upon an arbitrary time scale.Interest only as the OP states.A similar calculation based upon achievement since the Premiership/League was formed in 1992 might well be of more interest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rich T The Biscuit 676 Posted May 17, 2018 So it’s meaningless and pointless and probably created by an Ipswich fan? 😂 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,745 Posted May 17, 2018 Assuming your calculations are correct KC, it would suggest that the current ownership has been less successful than it''s predecessors within the timeframe, by about 4 places pa. As Broadstairs points out, it depends up the time scale chosen - if we went back further, you would be able to argue that they have done better than our (even) longer term history. TBH though, going back 50 years gives a pretty reliable picture of the long term trends. I wish I have Sky''s database so I could correlate it with average attendances.Looking at Southampton, Sunderland QPR, Forest, Blackburn, Sheff Weds, B''ham it does sort of reinforce my point about transformative change though, which we discussed earlier [;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,751 Posted May 17, 2018 Enjoying that little piece of creative maths at the start there Badger.How you got 4 places from 22.5-27.9 is tough to start with- that is 5.4.Also factor in that if the last 20 odd years are below the average position then it follows the proceed 30 odd were above that average. Now I can''t be arsed to work out the other years but I''d suggest if you did it would be nearer 7 or 8 places lower than 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,381 Posted May 17, 2018 The only timescale that is completely objective is the lifetime of the club. Every other timescale is arbitrary and has to take account of any number of factors, such as the financial and social changes in football - factors that are hard to measure accurately in terms of their effect on how a club performs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Wundaboy 1,423 Posted May 18, 2018 [quote user="king canary"]Putting the cat among the pigeons but...If you average out the 22 seasons under our current ownership then our average position is 27.9. So we''ve been below the 50 year average in there tenure...[/quote]Funny that, I drew the same conclusion.But of course "Delia has been good for the club!"....[*-)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted May 18, 2018 You can spin this however you like. Delia clearly has more PL seasons than all the others combined. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted May 18, 2018 nutty nigel wrote the following post at 18/05/2018 7:18 PM:You can spin this however you like. Delia clearly has more PL seasons than all the others combined. And League 1 👍🏻 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted May 18, 2018 And 100% wins at Wembley. Next best is only 50%. And poor old Bob never got there to find out.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted May 19, 2018 And 100 per cent lost at the millennium stadium 👍🏻 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted May 19, 2018 The where?????Longest unbeaten run against the binners and biggest victory at the portaloo... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted May 19, 2018 You said 100 per cent Wembley victory’s as in our play off final win. The 2002 play off final couldn’t be played at Wembley as was played at the millennium stadium, Cardiff now called the principality stadium Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted May 19, 2018 nutty nigel wrote the following post at 19/05/2018 12:00 PM:The where????? Longest unbeaten run against the binners and biggest victory at the portaloo... Most humiliating defeat in the clubs history and lowest league position for 50 years.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 382 Posted May 19, 2018 [quote user="nutty nigel"]You can spin this however you like. Delia clearly has more PL seasons than all the others combined.[/quote]I see from other posts on this thread that you like the percentage look at things lets see how they stack up in regards to percentage of seasons spent in which division.The Builder - 81.81% Top flight 18.19 % 2nd TierThe Cook and the Printer - 22.72% Top flight 72.72% 2nd Tier 4.54% 3rd TierNo spin, just numbers. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 6,381 Posted May 19, 2018 [quote user="PurpleCanary"]The only timescale that is completely objective is the lifetime of the club. Every other timescale is arbitrary and has to take account of any number of factors, such as the financial and social changes in football - factors that are hard to measure accurately in terms of their effect on how a club performs.[/quote]Changes which have drastically altered football over the last few decades and which are still in motion, so that even, for example, a valid assessment of comparitive performance in the Premier League era becomes next to impossible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted May 19, 2018 This "top tier" nonsense is the most blatant spin on the whole thread.What next?Is some half-wit going to claim the binners won the PL in 61/62? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted May 19, 2018 Football. Founded by sky tv in 1992... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted May 19, 2018 Founded?Sold it''s soul to Sky TV in 1992.Mine''s not for sale. How many others kept theirs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted May 19, 2018 Delia certainly comes out on top in the most minutes spent drunk, encroaching on the pitch chart over the past 50 years 🍷🥃🍺🍻🍹🍸🍾 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,902 Posted May 19, 2018 Big fat Bob easily comes out on top for spending our club''s money on Police horses to keep the canary faithful away from their own club''s doors.Were any of our local Old Bill jockeys? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
