The Borussia Dortmund Model.

[TIL 1010 5,303]

It is well documented that Paul Lambert who gave us the best years of Delia''s twenty year reign has a strong connection with them and took his coaching badges there.Jurgen Klopp was a huge success there as manager and is transforming Liverpool who have under achieved massively by their standards in recent times.Now up pops David Wagner at Huddersfield another product from Dortmund who has got a squad of average Championship footballers players punching above their weight and who were without doubt the best side we have played this season.Maybe we should narrow our search of Europe somewhat next time ?

[Donkey dangler 0]

Good idea TIL 1010

[Move Klose 303]

Never had a manager from outside the UK. Won''t happen anytime soon. It''s not the Norwich thing to do.

If and when Alex Neil goes will be a Hodgson, Jackett kind of appointment.

[lake district canary 4,878]

The attitude of these ex-Dortmund managers is very much one of showing faith and confidence in ALL the players to be able to come in to the team and do a job at any time, swapping teams around almost at will.  Huddersfield had five changes then four changes in their three matches last week.   Lambert used to seemingly put any number of different players together - often to the bewildement of fans - and very often got a performance/result out of them.  Liverpool frequently swap it around too.The philosophy behind it seems to be one of enjoying your football - all three managers mentioned managed to get the teams to enjoy the football and play without fear.   It has been noticeable of course that Lambert hasn''t really managed that at Villa - he wasn''t able to replicate the model at Norwich and turn round the problems the club has, which probably went too deep for him to be able to significantly turn it round.  It wouldn''t be surprising to see Wolves do well under him, though.  Klopp has the "joie de vivre" that inspires his players to do well, whoever he picks.  Posters on this forum kept saying in our winning run - don''t change a winning team - but the argument was always - what happens in a week like this with so many games close together.  Well Huddersfield showed us the answer.  AN said himself that he ought to be able to put any of the players out there and they should be able to do the job, so it is as much up to them as it is to him to prove that correct.  We''re stuttering this season, but there is always hope - and if AN can get through the next few games and get the squad functioning as it should, then we still have the quality to get promoted.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Deluded if you think AN is turning this around.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

Why aren''t we Borussia Dortmund?

Apples

[lake district canary 4,878]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Deluded if you think AN is turning this around.[/quote]

I prefer to think of it as being hopeful, not deluded.  We all hope he cam turn it round......don''t we??  [:^)]

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Nothing in the last few months has suggested to me that the manager will turn it around. Our decent form earlier in the season was the exception rather than the rule unfortunately.

[Move Klose 303]

We won''t get promoted under AN. Won''t happen. He isn''t turning around anything. We''re getting worse if anything.

My prediction is: We will hang on to for the next 2 games, won''t win either, he will be gone and Hodgson will get the job til the end of the season.

[morty 0]

Apples gets it.

[ricardo 8,109]

I think we are still on the Charlton model, Til.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

Can we expand the ground to an 80,000 capacity, secure a club membership of in excess of 145,000 and a chemical industry sponsor who made around 500 million Euros in 2014?

No, I thought not.

Apples

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,234]

I do not disagree with what you say LDC, but there is more to Klopp than that LDC, he only plays players who want to play for Liverpool, and he is ruthless at getting rid of those that he feels are surplus to requirements..........

[Legend Iwan 30]

I''m not sure Klopp''s particuarly ruthless, SOB. Joe Allen''s probably the only player he''s let go that could begrudge his transfer. The rest make sense.

Also helps if you''re at a club the size of Liverpool who can take a financial hit to move players out.

[morty 0]

So really, after thought and due consideration, the comparison doesn''t really hold up.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

Scratch Dortmund...why can''t we be Real Madrid and/or Barcelona, with a touch of Chelsea, a smidgeon of Bayern Munich and a tiny dash of Juventus.

Apples

[lake district canary 4,878]

[quote user="morty"]So really, after thought and due consideration, the comparison doesn''t really hold up.[/quote]Yes, it does and just because you say it doesn''t, it doesn''t make it so. Putting aside your blatantly obvious agenda against the op, the comparison is a good one and of course the experience we had with Lambert gives us a good insight to the way the Dortmund project has worked for the last few years.  Their ethos is a winning one and well worthy of discussion.  But then, you are more interested in running people down than responding fairly to anyone who has anything to discuss that doesn''t fit in with your world view.   Look forward to your "lol" or smiley face or whichever put down you want to employ this time. 

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

I don''t really get this thread.

So are you saying we should get an ex Dortmund player or manager? Because that''s unlikely to happen? Or base the club around one of the best supported and biggest clubs in Germany? Because that''s not happening either. Or maybe it''s just because they play in yellow too?

Or are you just saying we need a new manager? Because that''s pretty bleedin'' obvious.

Either way, I assume the OP has been raiding the Christmas drinks cabinet early.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Oh and LDC, everybody gets fed up being lectured by you.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

There is no comparison whatsoever. You may as well say, why don''t we look at the "insert any massively successful club here" model for success.

Dortmund have been able to do what they have because of huge crowds, huge membership and sponsorship - none of which we will have anytime soon.

Apples

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="Mr Apples"]There is no comparison whatsoever. You may as well say, why don''t we look at the "insert any massively successful club here" model for success.

Dortmund have been able to do what they have because of huge crowds, huge membership and sponsorship - none of which we will have anytime soon.

Apples[/quote]

They also had to be bailed out by Bayern Munich as they were about to go bust.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

Were Dortmund following the Bolton or Charlton model at that time?

Apples

[lake district canary 4,878]

[quote user="Mr Apples"]There is no comparison whatsoever. You may as well say, why don''t we look at the "insert any massively successful club here" model for success.

Dortmund have been able to do what they have because of huge crowds, huge membership and sponsorship - none of which we will have anytime soon.

Apples[/quote]

I''m sorry, but the Dortmund ethos does shine through as an example of extrordinary level of commitment demanded of the players in the way they play, unselfishness to accept the rotation system and a winning mentality devoid of fear.   You could very well compare that to Huddersfield and the way they are evolving under a ex-Dortmund man and aso of course to Lambert, who equally demanded similar attributes in the players. Klopp too at Liverpool.  Dortmund play in a totally refreshing manner - especially effective at their height afew years ago - and few teams can match them. Huddersfield play similarly and we had no answer to it in much the same way teams often had no answer to us under Lambert.  The honesty, work ethic, the lack of fear and the sheer exuberance of the way they play.  It doesn''t matter how much money you have, how many fans you have or how much sponsorship you have, if you have a good ethos at your club, you are more likely to succeed at what ever level you are at.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

"It doesn''t matter how much money you have, how many fans you have or how much sponsorship you have, if you have a good ethos at your club, you are more likely to succeed at what ever level you are at."

Ahhhhh, is that the anti-RB Leipzig effect?

Btw, Dortmund drew 1-1 at home vs. Augsburg last night.

Apples

[Coq au vin 0]

Money kind of helps though. In a big way. If it didn''t we wouldn''t be pushing for promotion in our most haphazard of ways.

[TheManWhoSoldDerveld 0]

If we want to be like Dortmund a better plan would be hiring their "sports scientists" rather than coaches. Blood doping is rife in the Bundesliga and is the only reason the modern pressing philosophy is feasible.

[coops 0]

Nail on head Move Klose

[TIL 1010 5,303]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

I''m sorry, but the Dortmund ethos does shine through as an example of extrordinary level of commitment demanded of the players in the way they play, unselfishness to accept the rotation system and a winning mentality devoid of fear.   You could very well compare that to Huddersfield and the way they are evolving under a ex-Dortmund man and aso of course to Lambert, who equally demanded similar attributes in the players. Klopp too at Liverpool.  Dortmund play in a totally refreshing manner - especially effective at their height afew years ago - and few teams can match them. Huddersfield play similarly and we had no answer to it in much the same way teams often had no answer to us under Lambert.  The honesty, work ethic, the lack of fear and the sheer exuberance of the way they play.  It doesn''t matter how much money you have, how many fans you have or how much sponsorship you have, if you have a good ethos at your club, you are more likely to succeed at what ever level you are at.

[/quote]I think this post warrants the much used Lakey gets it.

[Mr Apples 1,407]

So, if Rotherham applied the Dortmund ethos they would be top 6 or better then...?

Apples

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

So that''s on poster other than Til that doesn''t think this thread is a bit silly.