Reasons for optimism

[Mr Sausage 0]

Lots of negativity on here at the moment lets summarise where we are

1) we are still have a fighting chance of staying up lots of points to play for

2) if the worst happens and we get relegated we will go down with a very strong squad for the championship in a great financial position so we won''t be forced to sell. We will be one of the favourites to go back up. Villa for example will have to have a fire sale of players

3) we get the chance to destroy Ipswich over 2 games again

4) we will in all likely hood bounce back again at the first attempt

I remember reading I think it was Nutty Nigel once saying we are a top six of the championship team and a bottom 6 of the premier league team. We are exactly where we should be in the league

So let''s all chill ax and enjoy the rest of the season with the hysterics and negativity

[Mr Sausage 0]

Without the hysterics!!!

Typo

[PaulineFowler 4]

This is exactly why we are in the position we are in and not like Watford.

Fans accept failure too easily and the board know it.

Perhaps if the fans weren''t of the mentality of "It''s great in the Championship" we wouldn''t be where we are

[Mr Sausage 0]

I understand your point what I don''t know is what funding is available to Watford from their owners compared to ours.

They have invested in their stadium, training facilities and squad so it looks like they do have access to more funding than we have access to

Money on this league does have a big influence on how we do

Be happy we will enjoy supporting our team regardless of what league we are in

[nutty nigel 7,963]

Watford spent the Christmas Club money Pauline!

So Watford''s fans accept failure less than ours???

If that were the case they''d have no fans left.

Go sit on Arthur''s bench and have a rethink...

[norfolkngood 1,179]

if we had a manager that could get the best or better from our players I would have more optimism

but I have never known a squad with so many players out of form

not one player has been improved by our coaches or manager

season

I am not asking for lambert back but he had a worse team but got them playing above their natural ability by grit determination and will to win

all our players look lost out of form this MUST come down to manager and coaches

[PaulineFowler 4]

Don''t blame the manager. The board knew he was inexperienced and still appointed him.

The board are the problem nobody else. Penny pinching just like like the last two times we were in the Prem. They do it because they know they can get away with it.

Other clubs wouldn''t accept relegation the way do.

[lake district canary 4,878]

There are those reasons for optimism, HC and I think you''re right that under optimum conditions, we are a club that is top championship/lower premier league. The real problems we have had since our first visit to the top flight in 1972 have been to do with money - the inability to kick on in 1995 and the consequent downturn - and the problems after 2004 when money again became a real problem until we were rescued by a financial re-arrangement and McNally/Paul Lambert.So as you rightly say, money is the underlying issue with relation to the success of the club and the financially balanced status we have now is to be envied by many clubs, even though it means we may not be able to push that much higher than we do at the moment - but that sustainability should enable us to consistently challenge for the top of the championship with the occasional foray to the top flight. Some people always want more, that is their right, but they will nearly always be disappointed.  It''s great to dream of being a real force in the premier league, but it is always going to be a dream. Leicester are living the dream at the moment, but their lack of resources will find them out as regular top of the table side will need significant investement to stay there - as we found out in 1995.............

[Mr Sausage 0]

Agree with all that Lakey

Point of the thread is just to enjoy the ride. We are in a better position than the vast majority of clubs in the premier league and we should be thankful that we have such great owners, players and manager

Otbc

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

[quote user="PaulineFowler"]This is exactly why we are in the position we are in and not like Watford.

Fans accept failure too easily and the board know it.

Perhaps if the fans weren''t of the mentality of "It''s great in the Championship" we wouldn''t be where we are[/quote]Watford have special advantages, and it is too early to judge them anyway. This being only their third season in the Premier League. Which is five fewer than we have had.A better, much longer-term example would be Nottingham Forest, twice winners of the European Cup. They got relegated from the Premier League in the 1998-99 season, and have not got back, and don''t look like doing so this time. This is their 17th season out of the top flight, and that includes three seasons in League One.The attitude of the fans to being in the Championsip (or even below that), whatever it has been, has made not a scrap of difference (just as it didn''t for Watford when they were out of the top flight). Nor has s succession of high-profile managers and rich and ambitious owners. Forest fans, and those of many other clubs as big or bigger than us, would kill for the punching-above-our-weight success we have been enjoying.Your solution seems to be familiar. Spend money we don''t have. Fine. In that case put together a consortium and buy the club. Then you can spend any amount of your money you don''t have. For a while, anyway.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Not sure how you conclude that we are in a better position than the vast majority of clubs in the PL? What is that based on?

While I accept that money is important, as highlighted by many others, money isn''t needed to:

1. play players in the correct positions

2. stop continually rotating players and allow them to build up some understanding and fluidity, and

3. get physical fitness levels to a appoint where we can compete and harry/press for 90 minutes and not just segments of games.

We are not getting the most out of what we have got in my opinion.

[Mr Sausage 0]

In terms of being in a better position

1) we have passionate and dedicated owners who are in it for the long term. We could be villa for example

2) full houses every week with a waiting list for season tickets. Unlike Sunderland at the stadium of light

3) debt free if the worst happens we won''t turn into Pompey or qpr etc

4) a great CEO that is punching above his weight in terms of what he is getting out of the club both on and off the pitch

All good stuff to be proud of and thankful for in my opinion

[Norfolk Mustard 106]

Historically there has been an air of passive acceptance around Norwich being a ''yo-yo'' club. For as long as our collective focus remains there, that''s exactly what we''ll remain!

Big thinking, appropriate emotion & massive action that is regularly repeated is far more likely to give us sustained Premiership football.

Given we''ve just spent £24m the Board might argue they''ve given AN the £ resources to do the job. However, if the new acquisitions fail to increase our overall level of quality, then why did we choose them? Being fair to them, if Naismith, Pinto & Klose have arrived to discover the self-belief of current players is way below what is necessary to win, that might also be part of the cause.

Belief in any organisation starts at the top - it''s a leadership thing. If it doesn''t truly exist at board level, the first team manager needs to create it. A good example (of the ''appropriate emotion'' bit) being Claudio Ranieri who has really got his lot focussed, composed, relaxed and ''in the zone''...

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard "]Historically there has been an air of passive acceptance around Norwich being a ''yo-yo'' club. For as long as our collective focus remains there, that''s exactly what we''ll remain!

Big thinking, appropriate emotion & massive action that is regularly repeated is far more likely to give us sustained Premiership football.

Given we''ve just spent £24m the Board might argue they''ve given AN the £ resources to do the job. However, if the new acquisitions fail to increase our overall level of quality, then why did we choose them? Being fair to them, if Naismith, Pinto & Klose have arrived to discover the self-belief of current players is way below what is necessary to win, that might also be part of the cause.

Belief in any organisation starts at the top - it''s a leadership thing. If it doesn''t truly exist at board level, the first team manager needs to create it. A good example (of the ''appropriate emotion'' bit) being Claudio Ranieri who has really got his lot focussed, composed, relaxed and ''in the zone''...[/quote]Nonsense. There has been any amount of those three supposed attributes at the club I exampled, Nottingham Forest, plus - as it happens - money, and it has got them nowhere. And the same applies to any number of other clubs that would kill for the qualified success we have enjoyed since the Premier League got changed by the influx of mega-rich owners from a something reasonably democratic (in a footballing sense) into an oligopoly.

[curious yellow 184]

Also have some good players for the future.

We need some top coaches to develop this talent at this club. Development of players has always been our best route to success.

[Mr Sausage 0]

Curious that is an excellent point that kid we have signed from Coventry looks great.

The Murphy twins will be all the better for their season away

Declan Rudd is coming along all the time

Yet more reasons to view the future positively

[Norfolk Mustard 106]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Norfolk Mustard "]Historically there has been an air of passive acceptance around Norwich being a ''yo-yo'' club. For as long as our collective focus remains there, that''s exactly what we''ll remain!

Big thinking, appropriate emotion & massive action that is regularly repeated is far more likely to give us sustained Premiership football.

Given we''ve just spent £24m the Board might argue they''ve given AN the £ resources to do the job. However, if the new acquisitions fail to increase our overall level of quality, then why did we choose them? Being fair to them, if Naismith, Pinto & Klose have arrived to discover the self-belief of current players is way below what is necessary to win, that might also be part of the cause.

Belief in any organisation starts at the top - it''s a leadership thing. If it doesn''t truly exist at board level, the first team manager needs to create it. A good example (of the ''appropriate emotion'' bit) being Claudio Ranieri who has really got his lot focussed, composed, relaxed and ''in the zone''...[/quote]Nonsense. There has been any amount of those three supposed attributes at the club I exampled, Nottingham Forest, plus - as it happens - money, and it has got them nowhere. And the same applies to any number of other clubs that would kill for the qualified success we have enjoyed since the Premier League got changed by the influx of mega-rich owners from a something reasonably democratic (in a footballing sense) into an oligopoly.[/quote]

But that''s the point I''m making Purple! Saying ''There has been any amount of those three supposed attributes...'' fails to measure exactly how much there was or wasn''t at Nottingham Forest - and how much there may or may not be right now at Norwich City. How much is ''any amount''? They are not ''supposed'' attributes either - they are proven methodologies for maximising success. I referenced four stages, not three; Thinking/Emotion/Action/Habit - the fifth being the Outcome (the match Result). This structure forms the basis for plenty of Sports Psychologists, including those currently operating in the Premier League.

[Crafty Canary 556]

We may not have to sell for financial reasons but will certainly do so for player power reasons if we go down. Will Brady, Redmond, Klose and Naismith want to stay? We are unlikely to spend £7 million on making Mbokani''s move permanent. On the other hand it provides an opportunity for our younger players to show their worth.

[PurpleCanary 6,463]

[quote user="Norfolk Mustard "][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Norfolk Mustard "]Historically there has been an air of passive acceptance around Norwich being a ''yo-yo'' club. For as long as our collective focus remains there, that''s exactly what we''ll remain!

Big thinking, appropriate emotion & massive action that is regularly repeated is far more likely to give us sustained Premiership football.

Given we''ve just spent £24m the Board might argue they''ve given AN the £ resources to do the job. However, if the new acquisitions fail to increase our overall level of quality, then why did we choose them? Being fair to them, if Naismith, Pinto & Klose have arrived to discover the self-belief of current players is way below what is necessary to win, that might also be part of the cause.

Belief in any organisation starts at the top - it''s a leadership thing. If it doesn''t truly exist at board level, the first team manager needs to create it. A good example (of the ''appropriate emotion'' bit) being Claudio Ranieri who has really got his lot focussed, composed, relaxed and ''in the zone''...[/quote]Nonsense. There has been any amount of those three supposed attributes at the club I exampled, Nottingham Forest, plus - as it happens - money, and it has got them nowhere. And the same applies to any number of other clubs that would kill for the qualified success we have enjoyed since the Premier League got changed by the influx of mega-rich owners from a something reasonably democratic (in a footballing sense) into an oligopoly.[/quote]

But that''s the point I''m making Purple! Saying ''There has been any amount of those three supposed attributes...'' fails to measure exactly how much there was or wasn''t at Nottingham Forest - and how much there may or may not be right now at Norwich City. How much is ''any amount''? They are not ''supposed'' attributes either - they are proven methodologies for maximising success. I referenced four stages, not three; Thinking/Emotion/Action/Habit - the fifth being the Outcome (the match Result). This structure forms the basis for plenty of Sports Psychologists, including those currently operating in the Premier League.[/quote]That stuff may be all the vogue but it still sounds like modish codswallop to me! In any event we are not talking about how to prepare players to win football matches. We are talking about boardroom decisions to try to make football clubs successful.And there the two factors that matter are money and making the best decisions to utilise however much - or little - money you have. And no amount of ambition or big thinking or emotion will help with that. On the contrary, cold-eyed clear thinking is vastly preferable to emotionalism (as it happens the few serious mistakes Smith and Jones have made have come about when they forgot that principle and acted on sentiment).And there are any number of clubs (most of them, funnily enough, now below us in the football pyramid) where ambition (which usually means spending money the club doesn''t actually possess) has - disastrously - trumped realism.

[Mr Sausage 0]

I think since David McNally came in the board have being playing the long game in terms of what we are achieving Alex Neil will be a great manager for us. He may get us relegated this year but he will learn and get us back and keep us up

Keep the faith

OTBC

[Essjayess 307]

1. Well true you need to be hugely optimistic to think City will stay up2. Yes we will go down with a very strong squad for the Champs. But the squad may be hugely different come August when new season kicks off. Redders will go for sure, not sure about Brady, hes much more vital to City than Redmond. Naisy will stay, hes not the type to move to often and think Klose to stay to. But Bam back to Chelsea, Mbok back to Kiev, just leaves Cam, thou Laffs will be here and Ricky will be back to. But Maddison in the midfield  whets the appetitie, also its time the Toffolos and Murphys of this world either got their chance or ditch em.3. Very true, but to they get chance to beat us also, someday the worm has to turn again.4. That is just so far in the future with so many unknowns  ahead that its not a subject for optimism or pessimism right now.Financially, the board over the seasons have done a remarkable job, especially since 1-7, it cannot be stressed enough how vital a job  they have done. On the pitch, i think Alex has failed big time with his persistence in the one man up front, hes been a tinkerman, not a changeling. As a result, plus players being out of position etc etc, ive been hugely disapointed with Alex Neils first Premier season.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Add Thompson, McGrandles and this latest kid from Dartford (?) and, of course, Maddison to the Murphys and Toffolo and others and I get the impression that we are already planning with one eye on the future and mindful that this future could be in the league below.

This can be seen as another reason to stick by the present regime. Stability comes second to money in determining the health of any team in our position especially when fully acquainted with the fact that we are far from being the biggest or the richest club at the top table.

I assume Redmond will go. He has never quite pushed on under AN and is in and out of the side, wrongly imo, with appalling consistency.

Holding onto Brady, Naismith, Jarvis, Ruddy and Klose would be invaluable at Championship level and even Pinto might come into his own, as might Mulumbu. Some of the old guard would go, Whittaker, Lafferty, Bennett ( something amiss there? ) and even Olsson and the remainder would gradually give way to the youth.

It could work, but it might take a few more seasons than just one. It is nearly as hard a league to get out of as it is to survive in the PL, despite our two recent short stays.

[curious yellow 184]

We finished last season lower than any other team in this division. We have no divine right to avoid relegation.

The only thing we can do is get behind the team. We can perform against the top sides.

[Tumbleweed 106]

I agree that there are grounds for optimism but saying that we are better off than the VAST majority of the PL is still a bit of a stretch.

And do you know what? I''m getting a tad fed up with "grounds for optimism", its almost as if this has been rolled out every season since ''95. I applaud you for looking at the positives, but how about grounds for turning that optimism into hard core real achievement. I feel sometimes that we are perpetually looking for reasons why things may get better in the future, but instead of jam tomorrow lets have some jam today and start by getting the most of what has to be the best squad on paper we have had this generation.

The other thing we can control is to match investment in the playing staff with investment in the management team. I am not proposing AN gets sacked, but how about some serious spending at some point on a proven manager or assistant manager with bags of experience for a change? We seem to have the balance wrong and be prepared to take a huge risk with the managerial side time and time again but push the boat out to get decent players. It is a bit like buying a new set of golf clubs when your swing is rubbish, or a new car when you can''t drive very well. It doesn''t seem to address the underlying issue.

I really do not think that the current squad are being helped by some of the decisions being made and we look less than the sum of our parts at the moment.

[norfolkngood 1,179]

we have some great youth players

some like the boy at Coventry who like joe cole said could go all the way

but what worries me is these boys are being coached by other clubs at the moment and showing good form

its when they return here with our coaches will they progress ?

not one player this season has progressed not one player has been coached better than he was when the new coaches arrived in fact Redmond has got worse

I think like others have said if your manager and coaches can improve players that is our aim as a small EPL club

I would invest more in quality manager and coaching to improve the players

people say stick with AN he will be great where is the proof ?

will he learn by his mistakes he hasn''t so far this season in fact makes the same mistakes over and over Russell martin CB

AN might be championship manager he has proved that but he has a long way to go before you can label him brightest young manager

I don''t like the coaches as they do not coach during the game they sit there and watch it unfold

also the lack of form and progress of players is a worry

[Cantiaci Canary 610]

I''m never convinced about this rose tinted view of the Championship that some people have due to the three recent promotions out of it.

It is a snake pit with no special rope ladders for certain sides ... despite their squad depths.

It is oh so easy to miss out on bouncing back and very quickly finding yourself blending into the huge pack of fallen giants.

There is NOTHING positive about relegation from the Premiership.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Absolutely cantiaci.

[Mr Sausage 0]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]I''m never convinced about this rose tinted view of the Championship that some people have due to the three recent promotions out of it.

It is a snake pit with no special rope ladders for certain sides ... despite their squad depths.

It is oh so easy to miss out on bouncing back and very quickly finding yourself blending into the huge pack of fallen giants.

There is NOTHING positive about relegation from the Premiership.[/quote]

I understand your point but there is a realism that we are always likely going to be a yoyo club we don''t have the wealthy owner or the commercial income to be anything else so let''s see what hand we get and enjoy the ride

[norfolkngood 1,179]

I understand your point but there is a realism that we are always likely going to be a yoyo club we don''t have the wealthy owner or the commercial income to be anything else so let''s see what hand we get and enjoy the ride

I agreed but wouldn''t we have a better chance of progressing with the younger players or the senior players if we had better coaches so they could reach their full potential

I don''t think we have a bad team I just think they are playing within themselves for some reason

our manager and coaches don''t seem to be drilling a style of play or system into the players

if we are 2-0 up we should change to a keep the ball slow if down system not a attack based tactic which got us the 2 goal lead

isn''t that the job of manager and coaches to tell the team what is needed throughout the 90 mins not just before kick off

[Cantiaci Canary 610]

Hull Canary ... I completely agree with you.

If you are going to cry every week that NCFC are within striking distance of the Premier League drop zone then for your own health you should probably go and support Spurs or Arsenal!

I suppose what seems galling is that in recent seasons we keep earning the chance to grasp on to the top tier, and gradually become established, but keep slipping back. Unlike WBA we don''t appear to always return wiser either. The fear is that, unlike Southampton, Palace, Swansea (despite recent troubles), Stoke, WBA and AT THE MOMENT Watford and Bournemouth we aren''t able to capitalise. Do we look like a side that has had 4 Prem seasons out of the last 5 or a newbie? How many opportunities will come around for us if we keep slipping?

This is, ofcourse irrational as those sides mentioned above have greater resources, are in many cases not out of trouble themselves and we ourselves stayed up for 3 consecutive seasons recently. Are Swansea, and Wigan, not currently proof that becoming ''established'' is a flawed concept in itself?

Everything pivots on where you think the club could REALISTICALLY be.

Is eventually replicating Stoke''s status achievable?

Or...

are we forever destined to mirror sides like Hull and Burnley who should be disappointed not to be a strong contender in the Champ promotion chase but appreciate that it won''t always happen and that even when it does sunsequent survival will be a constant slog?

Hell we were playing up at Carlisle and Tranmere not that long ago!

For what it''s worth I think Lambert could have evolved us into something in between those options which is why his departure and replacement was such a bitter blow.