GJP

Why do so many people seem to think that giving young players games will actually make them quality professional footballers? It seems that both Jarvis brothers, Eagle, Spillane, Cavey and whoever else are all brilliant footballers being denied their chance by people who can''t see that they are infact a bunch of world beaters. It just doesn''t work like that. Only 1 or 2 out of hundreds of wannabes become the real deal. What makes people think at Norwich we''re sitting on a pot of gold when it comes to talented youth players? The only way you bring through a number of high quality of youngsters at a time is if you have a setup like Man Utd or West Ham. And we all know Norwich aren''t on that level. At the moment we''ve got two youngsters in my opinion who have a good shot at making the grade, Chris Martin and Joe Lewis. You can''t afford to carry players at any level of football, especially not this high up the pyramid and that''s exactly what you do if you put youngsters in who are just not ready. I know lots of people won''t care for my views because we all, including myself, want to see our home grown players do well but I''m not going to make myself see something that just isn''t there.

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="GJP"][quote user="Smudger"] and what exactly has Ryan Jarvis done that is so wrong??? Maybe if he made at least 2 consecutive starts sometime in the last 4 years then he would have a goal record to be proud of by now also...  Martin has done very well yes... but he has had much more of a chance over the last few weeks than Ryan Jarvis has ever been given at the club...  I still feel that Ryan Jarvis is well capable of making it as a Championship player and your criticism of him and his brother plus Spillane is a litle unfair. [/quote] Ryan Jarvis has never taken his chances, that''s what he''s done wrong. Chris Martin got himself in the team and he made an impact, he''s scored goals and he''s played well. He''s taken his chance. Ryan Jarvis never ever looked like doing anything for City. He''s lazy, he''s not strong and he''s not quick. He''ll never make it at this level. This is professional football...you can''t afford to give someone 30 games just because they looked like they might be a slightly good player when they were a kid. [/quote] Ryan Jarvis had players of the calibre of Huckerby, Ashton, Svensson, McKenzie, Crouch, Iwan & Co in the pecking order ahead of him.  Ryan has never made two consecutive starts for City since he was 16 years old... do you really call that giving a promising young player a fair chance??? Chris Martin has done well (but he has only got his chance because we are currently so short of strikers). How many goals would Chris Martin of scored if put in the same position as Ryan Jarvis has found himself in? I will tell you how many... NONE... he wouldn''t of even played a game for the first team yet more than likely. YES Chris Martin is looking good... but Ryan Jarvis has at least as much potential if not more!!! [/quote] Yeah yeah. Heard it all before. I think the current regime and the previous have both looked at Ryan Jarvis and come to the conclusion that he just doesn''t look good enough. I''ve seen him on the training pitch, I''ve seen him turn out for the reserves and I''ve seen his limited appearances for the first team and he''s always looked totally ordinary (at best). I still think Chris Martin has got a bit to do but at least he looks like he can, and has started to prove he can ,deliver.

Earnie is the best goalscorer in this league, without question. There''s nobody better at putting the ball in the back of the net. I wouldn''t mind Freddie but not at the expense of Earnie.

[quote user="Smudger"] and what exactly has Ryan Jarvis done that is so wrong??? Maybe if he made at least 2 consecutive starts sometime in the last 4 years then he would have a goal record to be proud of by now also...  Martin has done very well yes... but he has had much more of a chance over the last few weeks than Ryan Jarvis has ever been given at the club...  I still feel that Ryan Jarvis is well capable of making it as a Championship player and your criticism of him and his brother plus Spillane is a litle unfair. [/quote] Ryan Jarvis has never taken his chances, that''s what he''s done wrong. Chris Martin got himself in the team and he made an impact, he''s scored goals and he''s played well. He''s taken his chance. Ryan Jarvis never ever looked like doing anything for City. He''s lazy, he''s not strong and he''s not quick. He''ll never make it at this level. This is professional football...you can''t afford to give someone 30 games just because they looked like they might be a slightly good player when they were a kid.

[quote user="Canary_Ben"] I, and i''m sure the large majority of city fans agree that we should not sell Chris Martin, but i''m assuming that ''long haired prat'' you''re talking about is Robert Eagle? If it is, i disagree that he can be compared with Henderson and Ryan Jarvis as they both have had many more games than Eagle, and Eagle has impressed me with the few games he has had, obviously bringing in Lappin and the form of Huckerby is making it difficult for Eagle to get into the starting 11, but i''m happy when i see his name on the bench. Also, how on earth would Earnshaw struggle to get back into the starting 11 when fit?! [/quote] Eagle has impressed you? You must be easily impressed then. He''s got an alright left-foot but he''s extremely light-weight and hasn''t got any pace. He looked nervous and out of his depth.

I must say he''s improved over recent games, before that his passing was absolutely dreadful. Always bugged me how a professional footballer could be such a rubbish passer of the ball but there has been some definite improvement in recent weeks.

Looks fairly ordinary so far. If Norwich were doing really well (in this league) he''s the kind of player you''d like to have on the bench. He''s got a relatively natural way about him on the ball but he''s far from being a creative genius. Much more impressed with Lappin.

[quote user="jas the barclay king"] I hope he never plays for us again! the first goal was from a throw in and he failed to react! they turned shot and scored.. the 2nd goal, had he of made the tackle, or at least attempted it would of allowed more time for Hughes to of closed down, he didnt.. Derby Crossed.. Derby Scored. Although he did have a better game tonight its these 2 glaring errors that have cost us the match.. and they were Errors that a professional at this level simply should not be making...  We cant afford to keep him in the team when he is going to cost us goals (and games) regardless how well he plays. He knew the 1st goal was his fault and tried to blame Lappin for it.  Time for Grant to issue "desmond" the ultimatum i think... jas :) [/quote] In fairness...when it comes to their first goal Fotheringham should have stuck a tackle in before Dickson. He was more guilty of standing off than Etuhu was.

Lee Camp, Ashley Williams, Bobby Hassell and Mark Bentley are some names that spring to mind for me.

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]  we need to sort out the right back slot as Grant obviously doesnt rate Colin, and Hughes is certainly not good enough first choice, and we need a leader in the centre. [/quote] I didn''t go to the game at Barnsley so I don''t know what he played like but when I''ve seen him play before Bobby Hassell looks like a good lad for them.

[quote user="Alex Harvey-Jones"]Yes I''ve always been very impressed with Spillane when i''ve seen him play. Don''t understand why he hasn''t been given more of a chance especially when we''ve been struggling badly with injuries to defenders. Grant has seemed more happy to play people who are not 100% fit than try Spillane. I rate him more than Eagle and he''s been given a fair amount of exposure to ther first 11 so why not Spillane! We''ve seen with Martin that it can be well worth the gamble![/quote] Maybe it''s not necessarily for football reasons that he hasn''t been given a go... Although in my opinion I don''t think he looks anywhere near ready for it.

I think most people are too harsh on Doherty. He''s done no worse than Shackell but for some reason it seems Doherty can''t do anything right and Shackell can do nothing wrong. Fair enough I think Shacks has put in some better displays lately but before then he hasn''t looked great at all. I thought the Doc started the season quite well but then things went wrong for City and then when Grant came in he seemed to lose all the confidence he had. But he''s played over 50 games (I think) for Spurs and he''s played for his country about 30 times and he wouldn''t have done that if he was as useless as some people make him out to be. Having said all that...I''m still not convinced that Doherty and Shackell are really strong enough to take City on. We need at least 1 stronger centreback.

[quote user="Thirsty Lizard"] Interesting debate, but since Curbishley stated after he left Charlton that he didn''t want to manage outside the Premiership I think the ''choice'' between Grant and Curbishley is only a hypothetical one. (Although it looks as though Curbs may soon be managing outside the Premiership if he stays at West Ham). Two names which were bandied about constantly as replacements for Worthy by many of the moaners on this board were Phil Parkinson and Mike Newell. Parkinson has long since been sacked having been a disaster at Hull and Newell''s Luton are deep in the er.....mire. Oh and every so often Newell opens his big mouth and drops himself/his club in the er.....mire with the FA. I''m glad our board went for Grant. [/quote] To be fair to Mike Newell he made Luton into a good team and then the club went and sold key players; Howard, Nicholls, Edwards and Vine. I feel sorry for him because he was taking Luton the right way. He was the man City should have got, in my opinion.

Thought Greeno was at fault for the 3rd and 4th goals. Earlier in the match after he''d been denying Berbatov the commentators mentioned about how quickly it can change for a keeper, and it did. For the freekick he showed Berby where to put it and then he let Defoe''s fairly tame shot trickle away from him for Stalteri to score the winner.

I''d still take Curbishley over Peter Grant.  

Just seen this quote from Peter Grant: "We keep putting ourselves in trouble. I want to kill games off at 1-0 but they keep looking for more goals." Those foolish players, trying to score more goals. Everyone knows that defending 1-0 leads is the way to play football.  

15 from 15, I think.

I remember one of his more recent appearances for us when he came on as a sub. At that stage of the game you''d like your young striker coming off the bench to squeeze the ball and put defenders under pressure, like Chris Martin does. But he didn''t, he barely broke sweat and at best he was running alongside people. Lazy.

I''m not sure what team I would pick at the moment... Earnie, Hucks and Safri would be in without a doubt. After that it all gets a bit tricky... Is Dion better upfront or in defence? Who plays in centre midfield? Etuhu has been fairly rubbish all season but Fotheringham has been unconvincing. Haven''t seen much of Chadwick in a City shirt but then Crofts end product has been lacking. Is it wise or fair to rely on Chris Martin when he''s still only young? Hmm I do think I''d have Colin and Drury in the fullback slots though.

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"] Good point.Jarvis has worked hard for us when he has played, run around a bit too much looking for the ball. What is he worth? [/quote] Interesting how people see different things in football, Jarvis has always seemed lazy to me.

Poor team selection from the manager.

[quote user="Matt Hudson"] Martin and Jarvis couldnt work? Martin has no pace? Yesterday, he took on players, good on the ball, good runs, strong as an ox. I think they would work, Brown isnt exactlly grease lightning is he!!! [/quote] I was impressed with Chris Martin yesterday, I think most people were. But I think it was fairly obvious he''s not particularly pacey. If you played Martin and Jarvis upfront you''d have two forwards who aren''t big and don''t have much pace. Really these days you need at least 1 of them to be big or 1 to be quick. Jarvis is also lazy. I thought Kevin Kyle was quite impressive for them yesterday, really big strong lad who competed. Fairly mobile too for a lad of his size.

While I''ve never thought Colin is the answer at right back he''s definitely improved this season. He''s got more quality than Andy Hughes has, that''s for sure. Aside from the fact he is a natural right-back and Andy Hughes isn''t he''s also comfortable with the ball at his feet and clearly had a bit of an understanding with Lee Croft playing ahead of him. My guess is that Colin wants out at the end of the season so PG is freezing him out now. Which, if that is the case, is good on PG in a way but then we''re not in the best of situations at the moment and could do with playing our best players and when it comes to right-back...Jurgen Colin is definitely better than Andy Hughes.

[quote user="-.-. .-.. ..- -.-. -.-"] He is a low grade wannabe unloaded by Keane because he had no future at this level. We were the only takers and got mugged yet again. Add to this the useless Fotheringham and Lappin...who are classic journeymen and you''re left with a half decent keeper who went back injured....and Chadwick (apparently spotted by Worthington)....who is as inconsistent as the rest.  Great transfer window Grant....excellent investments Smith. Bilge. Bugger off. [/quote] I think Brown needs to be cut some slack, maybe it''d be fairer to judge him when Norwich are playing well and Peter Grant (or hopefully a better manager) is picking better teams. When Earnie comes back and if we play the right players in the right positions then that might be a more reasonable time to judge Chris Brown. It can''t be easy for a young player to settle in to a new team when the manager makes so many bizarre changes. As for Fotheringham...well he was useless yesterday. Whether it''s because he was out of position I don''t know but on that showing it''s easy to see why he didn''t have a club. Lappin looks like a good footballer though, seems to have a clever football brain to go with his nice left peg. Good signing, no doubt about it. I think Chadwick will prove to be an assest too.

[quote user="mystic megson"] Haven''t heard that rumour, but I''m 99% certain that if Earnie hadn''t been injured he would have moved on in January.   [/quote] I''m 100% certain he would have stayed had he not been injured. However, if we keep playing rubbish football because the manager keeps picking the wrong team I can''t see him staying too much longer.