The Judge

Regardless of divison (but more so if we go down) O''Neil should be the first one to sign up for next season, quickly followed by giving him the Captains armband. As had been said by others he is one of the very few leaders on the pitch we have - leads by example.

''M''bokani, at the moment is our best striker at the club'' - interesting statement. Depends what you define as a strikers role ? Some see it purely as putting the ball in the back of the net ie a goal poacher. If a player does this and nothing else during the game then you can stongly argue he has done is job (Hooper was a good example of this, followed by Grabban - but look at the reaction they got from the majority of Norwich fans). Others see a strikers role as more than than , holding the ball up, bringing others into play, creating chances, and sticking the chances that come their way away. Some players have both attitrubes but are well out our financial reach at this level. The lack of quality of our squad overall means we can''t carry the sort of player that is most likely to stick the ball in the net given the chance but does nothing else - especially if you only play one up front which we have done all season. We need something more. Jerome is our best hold up player by far (not saying he is great but is the best in our squad) - yes M''bokani can win a header and make a nusiance of himself but that is no good if no one is up there with him and his first touch and hold up play just isn''t good enough and just doesn''t look a goal threat. Lafferty - who knows ?? we just haven''t seen enough of him to see what his real attributes are but clearly our coaching staff have. Bamford - from what we saw last year is a good finisher given the chance but seems to need to work alongside another ''striker'' rather than play that lone striker role. So in conclusion if we continue with the same formation (which based on the weakness of our defence needs the 5 in midfield to support - I think we will) we only have the one ''striker'' space up for grabs - and based on what the team needs as a whole that spot is understandably being given Jerome. Sorry that you are finding it a frustrating season urdie - thing is it was always going to be, and will be again next year if we manage to stay up, and the year after etc - that is the Premier League for you im afraid (and our natural place within it) Unless we get some major investment - which is unlikely with Delia at the helm (the appointment of Ed Balls and her nephew to the board is testiment to this) - any season we have in the Premier league will ulitmately be ''frustrating''

I certainly want to see Redmond playing further up the pitch as this where he can do other teams damage and certainly makes them defend deeper which helps out the rest of the team. Hopefully he can then regain some of his confidence which has been missing for a while now. Major concern with this approach though is if he plays on the right wing (which is most likely) who plays at right back ?? It can''t be that liability Russell Martin because he struggles even when he has some protection from the right sided mid fielders. From what we have seen of Pinto he doesnt seem to be the immediate answer either - for me it has to be either Whittaker or Wisdom - with Whittaker just pipping it (he isn''t as bad as some make out on here and is in my view our best defensive right back)

If we do get relegated. Which obviously is a possibility then keeping Martin will still be an error. He has been poor for a long time now - barely good enough for the Championship last season and should have been nowhere near the starting line up this season. However due to our summer transfer activity (lack of it) in this key area we needed to strenghten he has still been getting regular starts and our league position and goals against tally is testiment enough to show this. Totally accept that he isn''t solely at fault for our defensive short comings as defending is a team function - not just the back 4 (missing both Tetty and Oneil on saturday was a massive reason for our capitulation - Jonny Howson is just too lightweight for that central midfield role and Dorrans can''t do it all on his own) but he is in my view the weakest option of those available and has been for along time. Keep him on in a support role if we get relegated - but if we want to get promoted again he must not be anywhere near the starting 11 (or subs)

''Not as physical as Russell Martin'' - jesus wept send him back then we don''t need 2 defenders who couldn''t tackle their way out of a paper bag in the squad.... The are was quite interesting and informative until that point.....

Martin is a good attacking full back and i use the ''attacking'' deliberately as this is easily the best part of his game - going forwards ! Whenever people talk about the great things RM does in a match they are always about, a great run into the box (as on saturday), great overlapping, etc very rarely about the number of crunching tackles he put in on their winger, the number of crosses he stops, going in the box, or defensive blocks he makes. Unfortunately he is ultimately in the side to be a defender, whether that be at RB or CB and sorry he is not great at that in either position and that is why he was rightly left out of the side and i was very surprised to see his name in the starting 11 on saturday. Whittaker is a better defender at RB than RM but not as good at going forwards. Wisdom is probably OK at both parts (i.e. attacking and defending) so is probably why he was being picked ahead of the other 2. I hope if fit Wisdom is back in side for saturday until Jan - when we get an upgrade in that position - as we have needed one for awhile (along with another quality centre back)

Cant see the direct connection between the poor transfer window and Alex Neil that alot of people seem to be making. He will have had his targets and areas of the team he wanted to strenghten - the rest is down to the Head of Recruitment and the people that hold the purse strings. AN will probably be as frustrated as the rest of us - but what do expect him to do - cry about it, have a paddy and make his position untenable with the board ?? He wouldnt have gone up to McNally and said ''look i''m really inexperienced and you really must pay totally over the odds for that defender i really want, even though he wants to go to Southampton''. I''m sure he knows this is a fantastic opportunity for him and by default would want the best players available to make him even more successful - but that isn''t down to him We have a really good manager in the making and I for one hope we keep him even if we do end up getting relegated

[quote user="Canary001"]What happened was we didn''t get Gayle in so Grabban was not allowed to leave ,[/quote] Spot on...no point letting a player go if you can''t replace them. Even though Grabban and Bournmouth may have been disappointed by this its pretty understandable and both parties should be grown up enough about it to accept it

Personally don''t think this was much of a factor at all. AN would have told the board where he felt the team needed strenghtening and would have had a pretty good idea of which players he ideally / realistically would like - the rest is then down to the Head of recruitment and McNally to identify the players and agree the transfer fees and wages. Yes certain more experienced managers have more ''pull'' and knowledge of certain players - but ultimately money and other things happening at other clubs would have been by far the most telling factors.

Agree with coments to a certain extent Yellow Wall but regardless of who is our manager we are in the Premier League and players outside that league (whether in England or abroad) will want to play in it as they know the financial rewards are significant. Money alone would be enough to attract top quality players - its just Norwich with our status in the Premiership (and to a small degree our manager) would have to pay more than other clubs to get the same player and it seems we have been unprepared to do this. Now there are alot of reasons why you could argue this was the right thing to do as why should we risk paying over the odds prices and wages on players with absolutely no guarantee of success (especially in the case of foreign players who haven''t played in this league before). The really sad fact however is if you don''t - you end up with no-one and risk a swift return to the chamionship anyway ! For me the Head of recruitment should be ultimately responsible for identifying realistic targets within the budget set by the board and sound out (via agents) the best players for the positions highlighted by manager - and importantly those that you have a chance of getting to come to Norwich. Of course the issue is when you get into a bidding war with other ''more attractive'' clubs and if those come in you either have to pay more (McNallys call) or move onto target 2,3,4 etc... It seemed from the outside alot of our initial targets (other than the ones we got in early Dorrans, Mulumbu, Brady) that we were getting desperate towards the end of the window - which means probably our top 4/5 targets were snapped up by other teams or we weren''t prepared to pay the over inflated prices. The biggest disappointment / failing for me is that we haven''t strenghtened significantly enough in the key areas - central defence and upfront - these are the areas that will ultimately decide whether we stay up or not and due to the league we are in where silly money rules you either have to pay silly money or accept you can''t compete financially with the likely outcome of relegation. Personally I would have liked the club to push the boat out to bring in a quality central defender (or 2) and if we had to pay over the odds of these - so be it - the rewards for staying up if achieved would make the decision a good one. No one person is accountable - so many factors come into play - however ultimately it is a Head of Recruitment role to identify realistic targets - with in the parameters set - so if you wanted to make someone a scapegoat - it should be him

Can''t disagree about Swansea. One club out of how many others ??? They also appointed from within - so are you saying we should stick with Adams. Don''t know how long you have been going to watch Norwich but I have seen worse football than what we saw last year. Especially when you take in to account the league we were playing in. A lot of people need to wake up and realise apart from the top 8 the premiership is all about survival and scrapping for points which generally leads to defensive boring football. Hughton didn''t help himself but it was about 30% him, 70% the circumstances and individual errors in my view. As said it got to the point where he had to go because alot of fans at our and other clubs have unrealistic expectations of where there team should be in the football hierarchy and they way they should play to achieve that - just look at the average tenure of managers in the top leagues. I agree if we got promoted it would be the same - but that would be with whoever we had in charge Adams / Hughton - it because that''s what the premiership is like for clubs like ours. Unless Delia sells up to some billionaire Arab you had better get used to it....

Agree with a lot of this. Hughton was a victim of what Premiership football has become for teams like Norwich - boring defensive football and fans expecting/demanding their teams do better. He did of course make mistakes, and as manager needed to be held responsible for the signings made and his back room staff who in opinion were the main problem rather than Hughton himself. Certain fans understandly vented their frustrations as naturally no fan wants their team to get relegated, but this ridiculous phrase playing ''the Norwich way'' was created which is something the board latched onto and in my view is the main reason Adams was appointed. The Norwich way ???! - what a load of dreamy tosh ! Norwich haven''t played attractive passing football since Mike Walker the first time round in the early 90''s and people don''t seem to realise that football and Norwich''s place in that has changed beyond all recognition since then. We were obviously successful with Lambert but that wasn''t with good passing, it was because we bullied teams, had a great work ethic, and a striker in his prime. Winning breeds confidence and that took us through the leagues with players playing above their ability. Winning also makes fans easily forgive the way the victory may have been achieved - we won after all. Was/is Hughton a better manager than Adams - undoubtedly. Did Hughton have to go - yes as a significant proportion of fans had it in for in him and in my view mistook the reality of the premiership for Norwich as his individual shortcomings/ failings as do many other fans at other clubs in our position. Did we have to appoint Adams? - absolutely not but do believe the birth of the desire for playing the Norwich Way had a major part in it. After the boredom of the premiership I was actually looking forward to this season but right from Adams appointment and then his appointment of Russell Martin as captain (who as a person believes he is the Norwich Way ) we were always in my view going to struggle - the unnecessary gamble hasn''t paid off and this season is turning into something much more frustrating and disappointing than last as we should definately be doing much better with the resources at our disposal. Last season Hughton was a whisker away from achieving something much more with the resources at his disposal.

Well all I can say is I hope he gets a result against Bournmouth as that clearly isn''t a nothing game !!

The difference between this season and last though is that we are clearly under performing this year with a squad that should be right up there and this being the case there is only one place where the buck stops - the manager - which makes the lack of decisive action much much worse.

Spot on yellow with your comment about Adams being given a job at any other club - he wouldn''t have been. Simple. So why on earth would club just relegated from the richest league in the world with a strong core squad and no debt appoint a rookie if they really wanted to get promotion......words are cheap....actions speak much louder and the longer they persist with their appointment you have to question their aspirations for the club...

Yes it is pathetic. Just not good enough - simple. Adams must go....unnecessary gamble has clearly not paid off. He totally and utterly out of his depth. Would imagine a few players will be on the phone to there agents tonight asking to get them out of the club.....not that I would be too disappointed to see a lot of them go...

This must be the game when the board finally admit they made a major and unnecessary c@ck up by appointing Adams in the summer. Unfortunately most of other decent managers now in jobs so likely replacement is Phelan which although not inspiring has to be better.. Need to ship some players out and bring fresh hungry blood in..... Very poor...

Must be why we have kept so many clean sheets then....?? Appreciate the journalist has taken abit of creative licence with the headline as at no point did Adams say that - but he did say Martins performances have been top class - oh dear ! Far from top class along with the rest of the defence Grant Holt v Russell Martin on Saturday...,I wonder who will win that battle.

Agree to an extent but even against a very poor Wigan side we were never really comfortable and playing that formation with those players in those positions against an even half decent side the result would more than likely have been different. Haven''t got an issue with a back to basics approach and grinding out resukts playing ugly if we do it looking solid and with the right players in the right positions playing well. Turner should play, martin should be dropped Redmond should be playing (as someone with his pace helps the defense no end my push the opposition back) one up front and pack 5 in midfield. Win 1-0 looking solid against better sides is fair enough at the moment.

I was at the game yesterday and to say we were ordinary in being kind! Appreciate it was 2 teams playing without confidence and under pressure but the game was dire and if we had been up against anyone decent there is no doubt the result would have been different. Same weaknesses and frailty as seen in other games it just was that Wigan were too poor to take advantage. The win undoubtedly will take some of the pressure off Adams but there was nothing in that performance or team selection to say we will be anywhere near the top of the table unless things improve dramatically.

Ray, You are a scholar and a gentleman ! As you say we will agree to disagree. It nice to be able to have a difference of opinion without resulting to unnecessary insults as is the default with a number of others on here......

MT aerials won = 0 ???? What sort of stats are those ? Do you really believe Micheal Turner won no headers in the whole match against Brighton ? If you want to rely on stats fine but as said previously you can position stats to support your argument either way i.e Russell Martin tackles made = 0. Pretty poor for a defender in my view (irrespective of the others ) Probably because he is nowhere near where he needs to be or because he is backing off so can''t make the tackle. I actually remember one last ditch tackle RM made in the first half where he got injured so again I wouldn''t rely on stats if I were you. I prefer to watch the match and see the impact players have on the actual outcome of the result.

Thing is with Russell Martin for me is that going forwards he is actually pretty decent. Infact it is his desire to get forward so much that causes a lot of our defensive problems. Redmond helped him out of a hole on numerous occasions on Saturday. I think People get carried away with his swashbuckling forward runs and in my view tend to ignore the defensive frailties because of thisI believe. He also comes across in the press well and is certainly quite articulate and he knows this and uses it to his advantage with a large segment of the supporters. It is certainly the reason he was given the captaincy because it certainly wasn''t for footballing or leadership on the pitch reasons! You can prove a lot of things with stats if you find the right ones. Are there any about defensive tackles made, number of crosses stopped or intercepted, number of defensive headers won ??? Wonder how he does on these ? These are the ones in my view are more relevant to defenders. Passes made is so easy to misinterpret..if you actually watch the game and Martin specifically most of his passes are about 10 yards either sideways, backwards, or to some one under pressure. In my view a very poor at doing the things we need our defenders to be doing at the moment - defend better.

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]It looked pretty poor for Adams that, despite an international break to reflect and adjust, the major flaws of the past few months (lack of urgency, sloppy defending and wastefulness in front of goal) hadn''t been addressed. He doesn''t know how to fix things (unsurprising as he''s never managed a club in November before let alone for a full season). Exactly what I thought watching the game yesterday CC and also others earlier in the season. The issues and flaws have been there to see for all, Adams has even admitted as much, yet he seems to have the inability, experience, tactical knowledge and training methodology to do anything to change it. As you say 2 weeks to put the failings right but absolutely no improvement yesterday, in fact it was even worse, it was almost as though the players had just been told to go out and see what happens ! No shape, or structure in attack or defense. Everyone expected Neil to make mistakes due to his inexperience, his true worth or potential was always going to be how and what he did to address these, unfortunately what is becoming apparently clear is that he and his team does know or simply don''t have the ability to put it right and that''s why change is needed. Phelan is a start but I have a feeling more than this is needed. Why are we letting him cut his teeth with us in this crucial season? What other club would hire a manager with NO wins in his career after 3 seasons in the Premiership? Bonkers.[/quote]

I sit near the dug out and must admit I picked up on the body language of Adams during the game. He just stood there expressionless most of the time, blank, staring ahead like a rabbit starring into the headlights not knowing what to do about what was going on in front of him. Holt was abit more animated at times but Neil had a look of resignation on his face perhaps knowing what fate may befall him shortly. Certainly not what I expected for a man fighting for his job. A bit harsh to call him a fraud though. He was offered the job, and accepted it as the vast majority of us would have in the belief he could have a damn good crack at it, especially with the players and resources at his disposal. It seems however both the unnecessary gamble to appoint him has backfired and adams own skills are not yet at the level they need to be to manage a championship side. He had the look of a dead man walking yesterday, sad to see and so unnecessary as he shouldn''t have been given the job. Last season in the premiership we had unrealistic expectations of our players, manager and coaches and against the teams we were pitting our wits against, this season we rightly have much higher expectations with the players we have at this level, and the financial resources available compared to the vast majority of our opponents, yet we are falling well short, some of this can be levelled at the overpaid players and the ''I''m to good to play at this level'' ego''s that go with it, but the majority is due to the tactics, team selections, and formations decided upon by the management team. Mike Phelan is a very welcome addition but to expect him to make the necessary changes on his own whilst Neil is still in situ is Maybe unrealistic and think they will have to be other changes sooner rather than later to get our season back on track.