Tumbleweed

MOTM went to Francis but although he was good it was Mr Edworthy who stole the show for me. Absolutely terrific, that goalline headed clearance was astonishing and he was solid throughout. A class above Helveg''s performance on Saturday. The Sky presenter asked Rob Lee (10 yrs at NCL) who was looking the more likely winner at the end and he said Norwich- sums up how well we did. And Niall Quinn was very complimentary. Great night.

To me its pretty obvious: green edworthy fleming charlton drury mcveigh XXX francis bentley mckenzie huckerby Subs: Doherty Svensson Gallacher Helveg Brennan Helveg did not look sharp on Saturday. He and Jonson must up their games and "get used to the pace of English football" that we alwyas hear about overseas players. They just didn''t look ready and it was like playing with two less men. So Edworthy comes in, he was steady and much underrated last year. Brennan handy man to have on bench- could strengthen midfield if needed or play wide if Bentley or McV tire. Leon for Matt. Match Hux pace with someone who can support him. Its so obvious, Together they began to sking the Utd rearguard. The XXX is the only worry. 3 options in descending order and only Nige knows the injury situation: 1. Safri if fit 2. Mulryne if fit 3. Holt only if the others aren''t fit. We cannot have a vacuum in the engine room of the team and much as I admire Holt he is not looking good. May have to suffer the Malky fate.

Holt started slowly last season as well. He was better in the second half but a good midfield is essential if we are to survive. Unfortunately there can be no room for sentiment and Nige must play on form. Which means Holt and Matty out and Helveg and Jonson need to get their acts together quickly.

Blacko, No- I didn''t see that. My aged folks get the Torygraph and I was with them for lunch on Sunday with the family. I''ll check out their website for the article you mention.

The Telegraph described us as feeble. Twice. Prats.

1. That referee who awarded Leeds a dodgy penalty in 1995 which extinguished all hope 2. Anybody to do with Everton FC 3. Muscat of course 4. The Daily Mail 5. The Telgegraph reporter who described our sterling rearguards efforts against Man Utd as "feeble" 6. David Campese (OK, different sport but he irritates me like anything)

Agree machoman that it''s points that count but when we look at where our 40 points are going to come from we would probably all have chalked this down as "Nul points" with a sizeable goal difference against. Its the games against potential strugglers and midtable teams which are where we must pick up some serious points. If we come away from some very daunting games early on and perform well it will hopefully build confidence and bed the squad in for those 6 pointers.

Great second half performance but Nige must work on why in the first half we were second to most balls, passing was poor and Helveg and Jonson seemed to be daydreaming. That second half, particularly the final quater showed we have nothing to be afraid of, seeing Hux skin Keane and place a great little ball through the middle was a delight and Leon looked classy and busy when he came on- he had the pace to harry their defender which Matt couldn''t do. Observations from an enforced armchair viewer: Positives: Huckerby as ever Greeno outstanding (that palm away from Scholes was world class) Leon (my favourite player in the squad) Drury (I thought he ran Francis close as he was superb and untroubled all game) Charlton (excellent) Flem as ever too Docherty- I was worried when he came on to play up front (memories of Rob Newman up there) but gave us time and held the ball up when we needed it McVeigh- what can you say. Whenever you think he''s not going to get back in he pops up and does the business. What a man. Francis- immense in the second half. Our own Patrick Viera- Real Madrid stay away from our lad! Worries Holt- really poor in the first half and gave away possession very easily. Short of pace and couldn''t control the ball which often pinged off him to a Utd player. A bit better in the second half but still left us worryingly exposed Helveg- did not impress me. Too slow to react and passing poor (big hoofs). No understanding with Jonson yet. On this showing what has he got that Edworthy doesn''t? Jonson- took a long throw in the first half but other than that the same as Helveg. Looked well off the pace Bentley- yes, a bit controversial, but his shot at goal apart his passing into the front two from some promising positions was poor. As Gordon McQueen said on Sky our midfield was giving abysmal service to the front two in the first half and let Utd run things. 4-3-3 every week from now on Nigel? Don''t want to focus on the negatives too much, it was just superb being able to watch us back where we belong. That final half hour made me so proud. Roll on the Toon!!! Can''t wait tilll I get to my first live game against Villa or a job where I work fewer Saturdays.

We''ve just released a big target man who scored two goals in his last game and over 80 for City in 7 years despite playing with a bunch of wasters in the middle part of his stay. If all we want is a target man they don''t come much better.

ManU are best in a high temp game where they can use their pace to run at us. They have sometimes struggled to break down those who defend in numbers. I think Nige may in fact be going for a slightly defensive looking line up- one point on Sat would be a fantastic result for us. Huckx pace would definitley worry them on the break (look what happened in Euro 2004 when Rooney ran at Silvestre) However I would NOT want to start with Doherty- Old Trafford is not the place to blood a player who may not even know the others'' names yet..........See my post on 4--4-2 or 4-3-3- thread- I would prefer Francis or Holt in front of the back four but not a defender.

Well gazzathegreat, I think you''ve just had your point proved!!

I''d like him to try (maybe against a Bolton or Charlton) a 4-1-3-2: Drury, Fleming, Charlton/Doherty,Helveg Holt Bentley, Francis, Jonson Huckerby, McKenzie Reasons: 1. Holt may now lack the legs to get up and down too much at Prem pace 2. Holt can anchor the midfield in fron of the two centre backs and pick up the runner from midfield. This is an area where I think we are particularly weak- even against Walsall last year they casued some problems when Jermaine McSporran dropped back and came from deep. 3. McKenzie needed for the pace alongisde Hucks and to give him supprt when running at defenders. Mckenzie is also better at harrying defenders than Matt. 4. Play the ball to feet, get Jonson and Bentley to supply the crosses to runs from Hux and Leon with Francis coming up to pick the balls coming out of defence into central midfield But I don''t have to pick the team so its easy for me to experiment!

rich I like your points in response. Good debate and I agree with many of the things you say, let''s give the guy a chance and resurrect this after a dozen games or so. Maybe he is similar to what we have already, but maybe he just does it better. Interesting comments from a Spurs fan which belies many of the rumours at the start of the thread.

I don''t live in Berkshire but would be prepared to travel for the occult thingys you described!!!!

Unless he comes through the ranks, every player is someone else''s cast off. We need strength in depth and versatility. We are also now buying players from Spurs and AC Milan rather than Crewe, Watford and Cambridge. Look at Middlesbrough- they bought good solid players, stabilised in the Prem and are now linked with almost all high profile moves. Give it time but don''t expect pigs to fly right now.

Spurs fans probably thought Mark Bowen, John Polston and Ian Crook were rubbish and look how successful they were for us. Spurs have never been consistent at spotting decent players so we should probably take heart that they are letting him go- they often end up keeping the rubbish. I have seen this bloke play live against Chelsea and Villa and I actually thought he was good. Always seemed to be in the right place, strong and won headers. Can''t remember if he has much pace or what his passing was like. We know the defence needs strength in depth and this is a good signing with the resources that we have. The poor soul hasn''t even played a game yet. No-one like big Iwan in'' his first season and look at how it all ended.

Another thought. Playing the next three games where we have quite low expectations means that the new team can form and gel against the best in the league. Then, hopefully, when we get to the games we really must win to survive, we have been experimenting on games we would mark down as of little hope (I believe no game is a no-hoper) rather than those where we need'' the points. As usual I was at work on Saturday but I was told by one friend at the game that we only had one game plan which was to put long balls through for Hux to run onto. No wonder poor old Sven couldn''t get into it as many here have suggested. But we need other weapons than the one which succeeded last season, I do believe that if we fully exploit Bentley''s alleged and Jonson''s actual ability we will have many more attacking options, especially with Leon on the bench who I think is just terrific.

I doubt we''ll have a single game when everybody is on top form. Lets face it, had that happened on Saturday and we only drew with Palace its not a good sign is it? With a few new faces and a highly competitive opposition who also saw this a a winnable game Its not a disaster. With our style of play we may be MORE able to frighten the likes of ManYou than the likes of Palace and West Brom. Just remember that we have always struggled against tough physical and more direct opposition. Hux will have bad games and Greeno will make a screw up or two. Svensson is hugely reliant on service and had two new men playing on the wings. Even Gary Lineker, Ian Rush, Ian Wright never scored in every game and in some I recall them being almost invisible. I may be mad but I think we might just get a point or two more out of the next three games than most would expect..................

My feelings were no t100 miles away from yours but it was mainly how nice it was to be playing with the big boys rather than the kiddies game. Just looking at all those sides starting that long battle through to May where everyone can beat everyone else and the fact that a few goals here or there or bad decisions can be so crucial made me shudder about having to through it again. Then I saw the highlights of Arsenal beating Man U and I shuddered a second time at the thought of how our defence and midfield could be sliced apart on a regular basis- but even so being back in the public eye will be jolly nice however long it lasts!

I looked this up- looks like I''m in for March which is only 4 perhaps 5 games (not much of a "season" ticket!!) although it includes two juicy ones. Thanks canarygirl.

With a good start to the season Hux might be a Scholes replacement to support Rooney and Owen from the left? Ashley Cole is so good he doesn''t need much cover as Hux doesn''t do defending.

A "swap" shop woudl be a good idea, but needs someone to administrate or people would have to disclose addresses etc which is normally not a good idea on a website. How do you know you will get season ticket? I am on the waiting list but have heard nothing though I also assume I will get one when the corner is done. Incidentally on my choices I plumped for matches pre-scheduled finish of the corner and was lucky enough to get the ones I wanted (Villa, Fulham and Liverpool)

Good insights Buffalo King. Sounds just like Kevin Cooper who was here for the last 10 games or so last season!!

I think it was against Stoke that Huckerby missed. Francis looks good to me. Mulryne would be the obvious one if you needed precision but remember Cardiff? Bowen and then Adams used to be regular penalty takers so it does not need to be a striker.

I hope they can''t but I do remember loanees being recalled before although I think that''s because of injuries. With Parlour also gone I just hope they do indeed sign someone else rather than invoke any such clause.