gazzathegreat

Brilliant stuff Blah. Great picks this week. If only you picked the city team!

Very exciting! Oh sure, it’s very exciting. Thrill at the endless fun you can have working out how many points we are going to need if A, B and C all win, or if A and C lose and we win. It could last for hours, or at least until the final day. End of season fizzle? When did we last have one of those? Whatever happened to finishing mid table, or better? IBA, I wonder, did you not find last season exciting enough to not want an instant replay again this season? No IBA. What I would love (our survival goes way beyond mere want) is this club to have some consistency, starting on the pitch and ending up at the top table. Consistency of thought, consistency of tactics used and consistency of resolve and passion on the pitch. For the past four seasons we have gone from one disaster to another, and just lived for the moment, prayed, crossed our fingers and HOPED for the best. This is no way to win a match, or keep the club afloat. So if you get your kicks watching us head for the 3rd Division then so be it. It’s not exciting, it’s heartbreaking. Sad, disappointing, tragic. Whatever words you want to hurl at our plight. The final few games are about so much more than a few football matches. It’s about saving our club from what would be disaster in the current football climate. IF someone at the club can promise me 6 seasons of mid table mediocrity in the Championship while we rebuild from top to bottom I would bite their hands off, and that is lowering my expectations considerably.

To me it''s all about winning our home games. So if we don''t win the remaining couple we are in big trouble. It''s a real mix down there between so many teams and with so many possible outcomes it''s too difficult to predict. Hopefully it''s in our own hands still and we can get out of it ourselves without relying on anyone else.

I have to agree largely with Nutty, I haven''t seen anywhere where Bryan has blamed the referees for our position in the league, but he (like many other managers) will use the poor referring displays if it means he doesn''t have to lay into his players. He''s not alone in that tactic. The two week break thing though I agree with Adam. It didn''t affect Sheff Wed, or many other teams. If the team couldn''t be motivated for winning at home against a team with little to play for that''s the fault of them and the management, not the officials.

No need to apologise Chops, I think that the anniversary of Hillsborough is the most important football new story this week. I remember listening (like you) to news of our match that day and the story unfolding from the Liverpool game and seeing the resulting news stories afterwards. I won''t forget the memories of that day and there were a couple of pretty graphic TV dramas made of the day as well. At the time I was living on the Isle of Man and made regular trips to Liverpool and got to know the city pretty well. I will always have a soft spot for the city and its people and indeed knew a few people at the time on the island who were lost loved ones at the game. At the moment I am listening to today''s game at Anfield and I can only imagine what this anniversary means to those involved. A nice touch from Warnock, a Blackburn player, but formerly a Liverpool player who laid a wreath in front of the Kop.

I am going for a win for Glasgow Rangers too, good luck Blah x3 !!

Good post NCFC Star. Just to answer your points re the singing. Of course there maybe a few of us on here who claim to sing all game (and without knowing all of them I guess you have to take their word for that). I can tell you that I do sing all game and sometimes start songs. That doesn''t get the whole ground going though. Rarely a song does unless it''s accompanied by some good play on the pitch. I think though you would find it as good as it gets up in the high part of the LB, you can take your pick from me, Nutty or Jas. There are some empty seats near me, next time you are at CR, send me an email and I will let you know where they are. I have been given strange looks for singing about or supporting certain players in quiet spells. Lately it''s been difficult to get the crowd in general to sing. Bearing in mind the majority of the other areas in the ground only responds to corners, goals or referring decisions, it''s a long hard job creating atmosphere when the match isn''t going well. As for doing our bit, I guess we can all see that differently. I walked away on Saturday barely able to speak. I felt I had done all I could. But IMO there are a lot of fans who think it''s already over/or have their own agenda for not singing. Not sure what all those different opinions are, as I don''t know all the fans personally, but amongst our group (most of whom have been there for 5+ seasons) we try to encourage the team. Some games are better for atmosphere than others. I have been to all home games since relegation and have to agree the atmosphere isn''t as good as promotion year, but could be really picky and say it''s not been the same since the seats went in.

Have to agree with Nutty, we just did nothing in midfield. It could have been anyone upfront, but the midfield neither kept the ball, passed the ball or created much for the forwards. Some of them should have been changed at half time, but sadly we had few options. Not sure that the blame for this can be laid solely at Bryan Gunn''s door. Also I don''t think we will be seeing either Fotheringham or Pattison play for us again, so they are well out of the equation. Hopefully Clingan will have recovered from his international duty and we will have Russell back. They may hold the tide but who to create openings for the forwards? That''s my worry. Added to that Sheff Wed had done their homework on us and spent the first half taking their attack against both full backs, drawing Shacks away from the centre. Hopefully we won''t come up against managers like Brian Laws every week either. For a team like Wednesday with little to play for, I thought he''d got them playing a well organised and committed game.

And why not Allcokfan? The Man is always readable, and although we won''t all agree with his opinions or sentiments he''s stated his reasons and let''s face it, whatever we all think of Worthington as a manager he did give us some good memories AND he was the one manager who stood up to the spending (or not) habits of the board. IMO he stayed on too long in a regime which didn''t back him and delayed in sacking him. He also made a lot of mistakes, as do most managers. I saw plenty of those legendary away fixtures (but some of those under Roeder and Grant were not so not either). I certainly retain some affection for him, if not only for bringing us some recent success. Until someone does better (which looks a long, long way off at the moment), I guess an awful lot of City fans will probably agree with The Man.

I can''t help but agree with you Yarmouthyellow1 re the speed of some of the songs. Especially OTBC. Things move in cycles and perhaps they will get slower again in time. My favourite "We are Norwich, CR" is still sung at the original pace, and has become more popular lately.....However the age thing is not necessarily the reason. There aren''t many kids near me (and a lot of the songs get started up near me), it''s largely a 30 something area if you had to generalise. Of course there are a few old codgers and old dears (like me and that old Nutty Nigel) but at a guess would say the kids you mention are either nearer the front or further to the centre.

I listened to the game and it was really good old fashioned cup football, end to end stuff, lots of goals and two teams going for a win. In our own interests it was great to know that some of our fringe/reserve players were playing well and giving their all for Luton. The players coming back here will have had some games, some experience and hopefully learnt a great deal in the process. Can''t really see any negatives in this at all. As for Luton, don''t they deserve a great day? Imagine all of that happening to us. To deny the Luton fans their day at Wembley and a victory is sour grapes in the extreme. To be the bottom club in the football league can''t be the greatest of experiences and it''s not the fans'' fault that they have been deducted points and are where they are. 40,000 of them at Wembley is proof that they are behind their club and I hope the supporters can help in the club''s revival. Also nice to hear Paul Hayes is such a prolific goal scorer for Scunthorpe.

I am on the back row Lambo, on the edge of E block.

Yes, it was quiet yesterday, and agreed with some other points that a few surging runs forward and a few chances on goal often add to the crowd in general singing. Sadly there was little sustained singing and what there was (again am only speaking of the area I was in) the general mood was nerves and resignation of our fate. Amazingly enough three of us started off quite a few songs and kept them going for a few minutes but it was clear that most around us were going to stay quiet. Added to that we had to contend with a few abusing various players (in my area this was mostly Lappin, Croft and Betrand). If I am with the loudest voices or eternal optimists I don''t know but up where I am singing away my nerves are nothing like as bad as when I was sitting half way up the stand a few years back. This is a very personal opinion, but for me I can''t see the point in sitting there waiting for something bad to happen. Games like yesterday are exactly the occasions when I feel it''s more important than anything to give my support. I can''t speak today - and can''t say I enjoyed the game yesterday, but felt at least I had done all I could to support the team. Though in the cold light of reality now it seems that a good few fans (and maybe the team) have accepted our fate.

Indeed we all do see a different game. Can''t argue with that. For me it was the non existent midfield. No dominance, no creativity and apart from Lappin''s free kicks no threat whatsoever. Therefore anyone up front was going to suffer. Personally I would have made some changes at half time, but alas not really a lot to choose from on the bench for midfield, especially against a well drilled side like Wednesday, who had done their homework and set about exploiting our weaknesses with good effect. Only Shackell kept us in the game by half time and he had won our MOM easily by then. Doc recovered somewhat in the second half but was not at his best. Marshall made a couple of good saves, but that sadly was the sum of the positives I could take out of the game. Were we all up for this game? Difficult to tell, but Wednesday dominated midfield from the first second to the last leaving us with no where to go but chasing the game throughout. Alarming really, when we have so little time left. And I can''t put any blame on the ref. We are not the only team who gets those who make bad decisions. Yesterday just summed up for me our season, ill prepared, a makeshift team and a growing sense of desperation as we turn into the final few games.

Ditto Duffman, although I don''t know any Southampton fans, I am sure we can all have an idea how they must be feeling and also the knock on effect the city of Southampton itself. It''s certainly nothing for any other set of fans to gloat over or be glad about. There for the grace of God and all that...... Maybe if Southampton really do go to the wall completely the footballing world will sit up and the powers that be will take a concentrated look at the distribution of wealth in all leagues.

I have used both systems, I don''t claim to know everything about computers, in fact the beauty of not having to know about them makes using Apple computers an absolute breeze. Using a PC and all associated software for me was a nightmare, always lots of viruses (and then having to buy or use the relevant virus stuff). With Apple nothing needed. No viruses, no hassle, great customer service from John Lewis every time I need it (which I haven''t since purchase). Oh and great news, an Apple store is opening in the city soon. I also have an ipod which I use every day, wonderful so is iTunes. Proud not to have anything IE or Windows on my computer, and guess what the world still turns round.

I recognise him Nutty, he''s one of the most interesting and lovely ex City people I have met. Had the pleasure of sharing a table with him at the awards dinner a few years ago. The other city icon we had on the table was....the canary fairy! Bizarre doesn''t even half explain it.... I think you will find Tilly is a good 10 years older than you. So don''t worry!

Beau, completely agree with your final paragraph, particularly re the change at CE level. I am with good old Mello on that one. It''s not the lack of charisma which gets me though, it''s the overloading of pomposity and patronising tone he adopts when speaking to ''mere'' fans. Some of them who have been going to CR before 1996 in fact. It''s not just me, but I can see how he can be seen by those who support his efforts as CE as being able to do his job. But is he? While he may well stand outside the ground and answer emails they are not his main requirements of his position. Where are our plans for going forward, where is all this investment the board claim to have been looking for since relegation (and they should have been seeking it before then also)? Will we ever get a fans'' representative on the board of directors? I don''t know, but I too would applaud that move. I wonder what the Trust are doing to further this cause? Does anyone who posts on here have any idea? And amen to the Groundhog Day bit, well summed up!!

Hey, thanks for that one Chops, I can get up to no good pretty damn well if it''s called for.....lol Selection for your consideration - I am sticking with our own boys to triumph against Wednesday. Best of luck!

Well, apart from the figures, which I don''t pretend to understand I have enjoyed contributing to this thread. As has been said by a few, it''s good to debate and argue without throwing personal insults at one another. IMO to do that is a sign of weakness. We can use opinions, even facts to back up our views, but calling someone we don''t agree with insulting names doesn''t make our own point of view anymore valid, in fact it makes it less so. Nutty, re the democracy in the boardroom, this was part of a question I asked Munby and Doncaster recently (NCISA forum) and while they answered that indeed it was one person one vote, the five of them don''t give me any confidence, whatever way that vote may come out. At the end of it, it comes down to two of them having total control over whatever decision has to be reached. Again I still don''t agree that D and M hold 62% of the shares because they are the only people who want to buy, as I have said before it''s all about terms and conditions. There are plenty of us who bought them during the two most recent share issues, but sadly all of us can''t afford to buy £100,000 worth at one go. And where do you stand with Doncaster and Munby on the board with just over 100 shares each? I know quite a few people who have more shares than those two who never get to make decisions about the club. As I said and will continue to say, the board of directors are not democratic. They are not fit to run the club, they maybe well intentioned, but they have not taken the club forward, despite their best efforts and sadly we have gone backwards due to a catalogue of their errors and costly mistakes. Changes must be made at the top, wherever we find ourselves next season. Smith and Jones well meaning amateurs yes. Experienced club owners? Okay they are experienced at presiding over the club but have not learned from their mistakes. Again and again appointing managers (mainly failing to stay the course or progress) and where are we? Are we better off for their tenure. Club in league, club debt? You decide. As for new people on the board - again, two of them have hardly any shares and they are there making decisions this club lives and dies by. So why not appoint four or five more? Someone (please, I am on bended knees) that is strong, resolute and has some idea of financial planning, someone with some history in football management perhaps who can oversee the management team. And most of all someone proactive. I wonder, am I alone is being heartedly sickened by one season after another of just stumbling from one crisis to the next?

Nutty, so many issues, but I will try to go through them before the bus arrives. Munby and Doncaster are employees of the club to do a job, they are not here as fans. You, me and thousands of others pay for that privilege and have been here for years. Ask Doncaster about anything pre 1996 and he hasn''t a clue. If he were in his mid 20s you could forgive that, but he''s not. As for Munby, I think you will find he has leanings towards Hull. However, it''s not so much the fan status as to why they are on the board IMO, it''s the investment they have put in. 103 shares each (last accounts). Large investment for such an input wouldn''t you say? You have probably got more shares than that, and for certain you have spent more following the club. Subtract from that sum also the amount both Doncaster and Munby are paid to do what exactly? Look at the club''s progress under their tenure and tell me they have done an admirable job. Munby and Doncaster may well have been to games all over the country, so would you and I if we were not having to shell out £50-100 a time or have other commitments. Investment - again it''s in the terms and conditions Nutty. Say someone comes along and buys 20% of them (if that amount are available). They get onto the board. Do they have a say? Do they have more of a say than Delia and Michael, or as much of one as Doncaster and Munby? It''s a wonder isn''t it that no one else sits on that board, even in an advisory capacity. After all the Chairman holds a mere handful of shares. Why doesn''t Delia appoint say 3 more people to the board who have some kind of knowledge on how to run a business, or know anything about football? Investment maybe welcome, but on who''s terms? I didn''t say that your thinking on Grant was not allowed, just that IF Worthington had been backed in an adequate manner we would probably not even be discussing Grant or anyone after him. Their biggest failing was having reached the Premiership, they then budgeted to come back to the Championship. For that alone I will never trust them again to conduct themselves in a businesslike manner nor give them credit for being able to run a football club. Nutty, the first half of the Premiership season we didn''t have a proper striker, and why was that. I would firstly point the finger of blame at the paymasters, certainly before pointing it at Worthington. What did I expect in the Premiership, well Nutty, despite the history of this board of directors, I expected us to give it a go and use the money gained wisely. Of course it didn''t happen like that, and on relegation well, where did all those parachute payments go? Certainly not into the transfer pot, and the players going out were far more expensive than those coming in, hence Hucks'' point about the quallity of the squad. Reading, WBA and even our neighbours had a better time of it in the Premiership once promoted. None of them won it, and I didn''t expect us to, I did expect us to fight and make a go of it though. Sadly that season my eyes were opened as to the competency of this board of directors. I don''t think I am alone there. The loans to shares. What would I rather them do with it, invest in the club, not themselves. Invest in the team, not the offices, and invest in quality personnel to run the place, that''s what I would rather they did with their money, quite frankly Nutty. Why I should be grateful for the amateur and frankly shocking way this club has been run in the past few years I really can''t understand. Grateful for still having the same debt, or is it more. Grateful for fighting relegation again. Grateful for being fleeced by Premiership clubs for loaning unfit players while all our quality goes out the door? Grateful for years of spin? Yeah, I am grateful. And if you say it''s not down to Delia that all this has happened, then I would love to hear who you blame for all of it. She''s in charge, she holds all the shares, she has presided over it all. Grateful. No, I am not grateful Nutty. I am quite frankly very angry.

Nutty, I find it difficult to believe that you think as an individual you are important to NCFC. I certainly don''t feel important, not even at ST renewal time, but then I don''t expect to on a one to one basis. Yes, without us there would be no club - yes enmasse, but one or two escape and others replace. If I walked away tomorrow there would be no effect on the club whatsoever. However as insignificant as I am, I still feel it''s up to me to make my points and opinions known and to challenge those who make decisions. Fans on the board, yes three, Delia and the two Michaels. Munby and Doncaster are employees. They are not fans, where were they before 1996? Munby had a brief spell on the board under Chase, but was soon gone. Doncaster (better not get started on that one, you know my views on this) didn''t know we existed before he joined the club. They may have seen many games in their time here but they are not fans. Are you comfortable then Nutty with 5 people making decisions on behalf of all of us, and of the 3 fans on the board, 2 of them have an overwhelming majority of shares, making anyone else''s opinion about as useful as any of ours. As I have said many times, until board numbers increase and the majority shareholders sell enough shares so they don''t own over 50% again, I won''t be happy with anything they might decide. On behalf of all the fans, the staff etc, are you comfortable with that? I suppose enough shares could be issued to dilute their 62% (not sure if that''s possible under company law or whatever legislation it falls under). Mistakes, I am surprised you don''t cite not backing Worthy as the main one. Promotion to the Premiership and hey, they loose all faith in him. Sorry Nutty, but Grant falls into insignificance after that. Then once starved of funds and relegated, Worthy was allowed to carry on too long with a failing team, demoralised fans and then the unrest. What do the board do? Make another cheap appointment hoping it will work. But more than that they just react to circumstances and don''t take risks. Or shall we say are not proactive. What a mess. Something I hope we do agree on. The last five years have shown the board up as incompetent, indecisive and unable to run a football club. Until things change for the better I remain worried and sceptical of them all. However much money they have put in, it''s using it wisely that counts. Do you believe the amount Delia has put in is £11m? I am not sure that she has, and until we all see categorical proof then I remain undecided. I don''t think she''s a liar per se, but surely she must know the exact amount (though I don''t really blame her for not broadcasting it to the media). It should be in the club accounts, but who''s going to go through all of them back to 1996? Nutty the reason they have a large shareholding is because they have converted many of their "loans" into shares, and that means effectively control. Does anyone else want them? Depends on the terms and conditions I would have thought. Doncaster is fond of spouting forth many sugar daddies, so what have Preston got that we haven''t? I wonder. The Trust have quite a few, some of us have have a few each. Another fund raising share issue maybe. Why not introduce the option of adding a few shares into each year''s season ticket. That maybe an option they could consider. Thing is Nutty, year on year their share percentage grows, but our debts get larger and the players well, does the quality rise with the amount of money they have put in?

Nutty, I have obviously struck a blow somewhere painful. I can''t for the life of me recall having a go at you for predicting results or disappearing if you had correctly predicted one or two. Disappearing, is that when some of us don''t post for a day or two maybe? Well Nutty, as a family man yourself I am sure you will concede that there are not enough hours in the day for spending every waking hour on this messageboard. I don''t always appear on here after games as I am out with the family or friends. Saturday is my only day off in the week, so it''s precious time to me. If you have been blasted by insensitive posters then I am sorry. We all suffer from it at some time or another. It''s one of the disadvantages of having an opinion and stating it. Most of the time there will be those who don''t agree. I fully support that we should all be civil about our disagreements, but life''s not always as you would wish. As I said on the previous post though, what you, and I and every individual thinks is only relevant in the smaller scheme of things.

Nutty, my concern is with what''s happening to our club, not trying to prove anyone wrong, let''s face it, in the grand scheme of things each of us means practically nothing to the club. Together in number yes, but individually no. As I have pointed out, my concern is that there are just so many theories, so much spin and let''s face it, mostly everybody can make their opinions stand up with associated facts. The facts I can''t deal with is this club is still in decline, it has spent a lot of money but sadly the results speak for themselves. Still in a relegation fight. Survive or not, the facts remain, we have been fed spin by Doncaster for years, I can just about accept that - he''s paid to come up with excuses as to why we seemingly can''t compete with the mighty clubs who are all above us in the table. What I would like to hear is HOW the board are going to first stem the seemingly bottomless pit of money maintaining our debt and how they will channel the income we do receive - from Directors or whoever, and put it to good use. And for me that means concentrate on the team. Let''s say we keep the present management team. Fine, I can accept that. So wherever we are in the close season I want to see Gunn backed with not only money but ideas, plans and most of all 100% determination to take this club forward. No more of this wait to see what everyone else is doing and all that rubbish about no one doing any business in May and June. Let''s be proactive for once, not reactive. Delia and her appearance on Womans'' Hour, fine. If she can''t remember how much money she''s put in she is either just not saying in public or she needs a better financial advisor. I still would love to know what that 11m has gone towards, is it the team, her shares or dare I say it, has most of it gone to cover the debts. IF so, then she needs to take a long look at why these debts are getting larger. Maybe it is the same for all clubs, but as Doncaster keeps pointing out, some have sugar daddies, well so do we, 11m is not an unsubstantial sum. I am still alarmed from the boards'' performance at the AGM where all present seemed both defeated and clueless. Despite their best intentions, they are too far out of their comfort zone and we as a club are on the brink of falling into yet more trouble if we are relegated. I have no confidence in the any of the present crew turning us around and therefore I am eager to hear that they are firstly seeking some professional people to join the board to help and two, that Munby and Doncaster on Delia''s behalf are forming plans and making decisions on where the club is going in the foreseeable future and beyond. As for acknowledging that you may have got the points count right, fine, if you are right, good for you. Sadly though Nutty, our problems go a bit deeper than which one of us can correctly predict a few results.

Holland to beat Scotland for me.