Had just about enough of idiot Norwich fans

[Feedthewolf 4,861]

I echo the sentiments elsewhere about the sense of entitlement. I don''t think anyone is saying that fans should not be *allowed* to boo, it''s more a case of appealing to people''s better nature. We are all Norwich *supporters*, and that''s the rub. Why can''t we encourage our team during the game? If a player makes a mistake, they know they''ve made a mistake. If they''re playing cr*p, they know they''re playing cr*p, they don''t need thousands of howling fans to tell them that.If we''re collectively playing like turd and losing at half-time, there''s nothing wrong with a chorus of boos IMO, and the same at full-time. I can also understand the collective groans when yet another pass goes astray, or when a promising attack peters out due to bad decisions or lack of attacking ambition. But booing our own players during the match is counter-productive and helps no one.I love hearing the Barclay and Snakepit in full voice on a matchday, but it has seemed a bit subdued this season. Of course that''s to do with performances on the pitch, but every game starts 0-0 and I''d love to hear vociferous, noisy support irrespective of the match situation (within reason). If we support the team with passion then nobody can pull out the ''oh, the negative atmosphere affects the players'' card. It''s time we all took a reality check and remembered how much we love our club and our city. Complain as much as you like at the end of the match, down the pub afterwards, on here, on radio phone-ins, whatever - but let''s try to make matchdays a galvanising experience again. We are all yellows, after all.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

😄

[whoareyou? 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]We were a goal down against a top six team who we could have gone above had we turned the game round. I''ve seen us lose 6 pointers at the bottom and not had players booed and jeered like that. The manager was in his 2nd home game. He''d won the first. And yet he was booed and jeered too. These excuses that fans didn''t agree with Adams appointment don''t wash with me. Adams wasn''t booed in his 2nd game or for many subsequent games. Were you there whoareyou?[/quote]Was i there? No because i live 200 miles away these days and I don''t have the time or money to travel that distance to home games very often, sadly.I''m trying to explain the general malaise within the club rather than specific matches. I do also suspect that the Lambert era maybe brought quite a lot of new fans into the club who probably don''t fully understand that football isn''t about winning all the time and that there are many more bad/indifferent times to go with the good.As i said i would never boo players during a game nor excuse those who do, but they have a right to do it as they pay their money and we live in a free society.I don''t think this ''malaise'' is unique to City either, go to almost any other ground and you will hear similar things going on. Its just the way it is nowadays whether we like it or not and we certainly wont change it.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

I wasn''t questioning your support. Just the idea that this booing and jeering was anyway aimed at the board for managerial appointments.

The Lambert years were exceptional. I think the best 3 consecutive seasons in my 50+ years going. It was never going to last and was destined to be followed by disappointment.

The atmosphere in the stadium I feel is partly due to people renewing their season tickets at this time last season when the likliehood was wed stay in the PL. They didn''t sign up to see us losing at home to Brentford.

[lake district canary 4,540]

[quote user="whoareyou"] I do also suspect that the Lambert era maybe brought quite a lot of new fans into the club who probably don''t fully understand that football isn''t about winning all the time and that there are many more bad/indifferent times to go with the good.[/quote]

 I don''t buy this.  The first game in League 1 with Gunn had a packed house, 26,000 +.    We have great support - there may have been a few new fans, but most of them were there already.   Imo it is disgruntled established season ticket holders who haven''t got over Lambert leaving and have been smarting all through the Hughton and Adams era that are voicing their frustration.  They can''t have things their own way by getting the manager they want - probably didn''t want Hughton, then Adams, nor a relatively unknown Scot - so they are just letting people know their feelings.  

At the end of the day its down to the manager and the players to dispell this by performing well week in week out with consistently good performances.  Get that and even if we don''t get promoted this season, the atmosphere will improve. 

   

[whoareyou? 0]

Either way, new supporters or not, those three seasons under Lambert undoubtedly produced unrealistic expectations of our club. Those who have supported the club for a long time know the great times probably only come along every 10+ years or so.We had a few good seasons under John Bond, same with Ken Brown and Stringer. Then the glorious Walker 18 months, a decent season under Worthington and finally the Lambert years. There was a lot of dross and bad times in between those though.

[lake district canary 4,540]

[quote user="whoareyou"]Either way, new supporters or not, those three seasons under Lambert undoubtedly produced unrealistic expectations of our club. Those who have supported the club for a long time know the great times probably only come along every 10+ years or so.We had a few good seasons under John Bond, same with Ken Brown and Stringer. Then the glorious Walker 18 months, a decent season under Worthington and finally the Lambert years. There was a lot of dross and bad times in between those though.[/quote]

Agree about the unrealistic expectations.

I maybe looking back with rose tinted glasses, but the years from 1972-1994 seemed to me to have been all superb years in some way - even when relegated we just bounced straight back. So what you said was "a few good seasons" if you include Ron Saunders too, was 22 years!    Its only since then that things have got harder - and that is partly due to the money situation, or our lack of it.    1995-2001 seemed bleaker and then the Worthy era was better. How we got back to the prem with Worthy was remarkable, just managing to afford a couple of loans and the signing of Huckerby to see us through. Then 2004-2009 was bleak - very.  So by my reckoning, the good times have only been missing for maybe eleven years in the last 42, although admittedly the ups and downs have been more stark since 1995. So that''s eleven years in the last 20.................

Whatever, the club is now in a financially good position - which in itself is rare, if not unique in our history.  The only thing now is to get the team to look a bit more workmanlike and consistent, which even if we don''t get promoted, will mean things are on the up.

[The Butler 0]

I think it''s as much about selling the product as "high expectation"

You have to be able to sell the sizzle as well as the sausage.

Lambert could do that, it didn''t matter if a performance was bad (it happened) you just knew the next one would be better .He radiated that aura. Then CH who, to be honest could have added chips and beans and would still not persuaded you it was value. Dull and grey and you ended up expecting and often getting, the worse. Neil Adams , although media savvy, still didn''t come across with that "assurance" and appeal (think Bond, Walker etc) and thus had no wave to ride.

Not sure if Neil has that communication skill, although at first test it seems he might develop.

The problem he has is the "rot" that set in needs to be countered first before he /we can move on.

I still think the board did Adams and now Neil no favours by stating that promotion was the "least" expected this season and thus raising everyone''s expectations and increasing the pressure on the managers to an unbelievable level.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

I lucked out and got my current season ticket (for our return to the Premier League) in November 2010, when we were enjoying a decent start to our Championship season and promotion was not guranteed. This after going to most home games in the League One season.

So you could say I started out during our upturn. However, I''ve never booed or had the inclination to because times aren''t as good. Some of the football was tripe under Hughton and I''d like to see us do better, but I have no desire to jeer or abuse players. Booing can be justified if there is a totally unacceptable performance, but booing for the sake of it seems churlish. Booing the manager in his second home game was nearly a farce. And I felt for Whitts after being cheered off by a large number - how do you think he felt?!

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

The Lambert years have upped expectations and now some fans ''expect'' us to be winning every game. Unless the players put in the shift and performance to win, this isn''t going to always happen. We can''t expect to turn up to every game and win without putting in the required effort.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Whatever, the club is now in a financially good position - which in itself is rare, if not unique in our history.  The only thing now is to get the team to look a bit more workmanlike and consistent, which even if we don''t get promoted, will mean things are on the up.

[/quote]Lakey this thread has essentially been about fans. Whether they are right to show frustration, how loyal they are, whether it''s right to slag each other off, etc etc etc.The problem with your point I''ve highlighted above is  that simply is just not how it works for the vast majority of fans, whether they be those of Norwich, Chelsea or a team in the Conference.In the main we buy our ticket at the start of the game/season full of hope. Hope that we will win a lot of football matches and that we will get promoted or win some other silverware . Just some vague notion that ''things might be on the up'' does not cut it in the eyes of the dyed in the wool supporter. He is not looking for a ''workmanlike'' team. He is primarily looking for a team that sends him away from CR at 5pm on a Saturday with a smile on his face and a spring in his step.Where there is a modicum of truth in what you say is that over recent years there have been long periods where the above has been far from the case. It may well be that the Lambert era has left fans with unrealistic expectations. That is not for me (or you) to say.  But I''m at a loss to see why anyone who has contributed to this thread by essentially having a pop at large numbers of loyal NCFC fans is unable to grasp that expectations (and I make no apology for using that word) at the start of the season were very high . And the inescapable fact is that the club/team has failed to satisfy those expectations thus far. Fair enough, the fat lady has not sung yet, and thee may be a sting in the season''s tail. But, if not there will not be many of us who look back on it and fondly say "ah yes we got a workmanlike team which is on the up ".

[TCCANARY 263]

"In the main we buy our ticket at the start of the game/season full of hope. Hope that we will win a lot of football matches and that we will get promoted or win some other silverware . Just some vague notion that ''things might be on the up'' does not cut it in the eyes of the dyed in the wool supporter. He is not looking for a ''workmanlike'' team. He is primarily looking for a team that sends him away from CR at 5pm on a Saturday with a smile on his face and a spring in his step."

 

Very sexist paragraph.

 

 

 

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="whoareyou"]Either way, new supporters or not, those three seasons under Lambert undoubtedly produced unrealistic expectations of our club. Those who have supported the club for a long time know the great times probably only come along every 10+ years or so.We had a few good seasons under John Bond, same with Ken Brown and Stringer. Then the glorious Walker 18 months, a decent season under Worthington and finally the Lambert years. There was a lot of dross and bad times in between those though.[/quote]

Agree about the unrealistic expectations.

I maybe looking back with rose tinted glasses, but the years from 1972-1994 seemed to me to have been all superb years in some way - even when relegated we just bounced straight back. So what you said was "a few good seasons" if you include Ron Saunders too, was 22 years!    Its only since then that things have got harder - and that is partly due to the money situation, or our lack of it.    1995-2001 seemed bleaker and then the Worthy era was better. How we got back to the prem with Worthy was remarkable, just managing to afford a couple of loans and the signing of Huckerby to see us through. Then 2004-2009 was bleak - very.  So by my reckoning, the good times have only been missing for maybe eleven years in the last 42, although admittedly the ups and downs have been more stark since 1995. So that''s eleven years in the last 20.................

Whatever, the club is now in a financially good position - which in itself is rare, if not unique in our history.  The only thing now is to get the team to look a bit more workmanlike and consistent, which even if we don''t get promoted, will mean things are on the up.

[/quote]Well, that made me laugh if nothing else.As City 1st might say. oh dearie, dearie, me.So, the years ''72 to ''94 were all good ''un''s then? No I don''t think so. There were four promotions and three relegations so there was certainly plenty going on but I would hardly call the relegations good seasons and there was plenty of dross too.You only have to take a look at the attendances for those seasons to see what the paying public thought. Our highest ever average was 28652 in our first ever top flight season, 1972/73. After this gates fluctuated with good and bad seasons but after 76/77 never went over the 20k mark for the next twenty five years.Indeed, after 76/77 gates declined steadily until 91/92 when they reached a low of 13,856. You also seem to conveniently forget the many years of management turmoil and financial problems during this period.Good times have always been hard to come by at Carrow Road. By my reckoning based on sixty years of attendance I would put the good seasons at no more than 25% at the very best. The vast majority of seasons are mixed with high points and low points so could be termed anywhere between disappointing and satisfactory.Perhaps I should have been more of a happy clapper but we are where we are and Nigel is quite right to say that the Lambert years were an exception. I''ve never seen three seasons like it and never expect to again.

[TCCANARY 263]

 

It always worries me when the extraordinary is seen as ordinary, the Lambert years were extraordinary, my old Nan used to say watching City being successful was like having sex, you never know how long it''s going to last so just enjoy it while it''s happening but never stop looking for that feeling again.

 

 

 

 

[lake district canary 4,540]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lake district canary"]Whatever, the club is now in a financially good position - which in itself is rare, if not unique in our history.  The only thing now is to get the team to look a bit more workmanlike and consistent, which even if we don''t get promoted, will mean things are on the up. [/quote]Lakey this thread has essentially been about fans. Whether they are right to show frustration, how loyal they are, whether it''s right to slag each other off, etc etc etc.The problem with your point I''ve highlighted above is  that simply is just not how it works for the vast majority of fans, whether they be those of Norwich, Chelsea or a team in the Conference.In the main we buy our ticket at the start of the game/season full of hope. Hope that we will win a lot of football matches and that we will get promoted or win some other silverware . Just some vague notion that ''things might be on the up'' does not cut it in the eyes of the dyed in the wool supporter. He is not looking for a ''workmanlike'' team. He is primarily looking for a team that sends him away from CR at 5pm on a Saturday with a smile on his face and a spring in his step.Where there is a modicum of truth in what you say is that over recent years there have been long periods where the above has been far from the case. It may well be that the Lambert era has left fans with unrealistic expectations. That is not for me (or you) to say.  But I''m at a loss to see why anyone who has contributed to this thread by essentially having a pop at large numbers of loyal NCFC fans is unable to grasp that expectations (and I make no apology for using that word) at the start of the season were very high . And the inescapable fact is that the club/team has failed to satisfy those expectations thus far. Fair enough, the fat lady has not sung yet, and thee may be a sting in the season''s tail. But, if not there will not be many of us who look back on it and fondly say "ah yes we got a workmanlike team which is on the up ".[/quote]

What we need more than anything imo is the idea that we are going to see every week a performance befitting a side that has aspirations for the top.   Promotion may not happen now this season - and if it doesn''t, at least we can get some satisfaction that our team is improving its attitude/consistency.  That in itself would give us encouragment for next season.   We still could get promoted this season too, but if people constantly set the expectations too high, we are always going to have some dis-satisfied fans, whatever we do.   This has been proven over and over again.  Some people are never satisfied. 

That''s life I suppose, but I think that if people are seen as being unnecessarily detrimental to the team during a match, then every more sanguine fan should point out the error of their ways.  That way might lead to more understanding that positivity is what is required, not negativity.  Negativity is poisonous to a football club, be it from a board, a manager, players or fans.  If people can''t accept that, then the arguments will go on, but it is imo a fundamental role of a supporter to be positive whenever possible, resorting only to booing in the direst of circumstances, like being at the bottom of the table for instance.  We are not bottom, we have a new manager, our squad is intact, our goals are still possible to achieve - so what is the problem?? 

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

To be fair, Lakey probably hardly ever goes to matches, so how he can comment and criticise those that spend their time and money following the team is beyond me.

[lake district canary 4,540]

[quote user="Suffolk Canary"]To be fair, Lakey probably hardly ever goes to matches, so how he can comment and criticise those that spend their time and money following the team is beyond me.[/quote]My football club has been the one constant throughout my life, I regularly spend more each season visiting CR and away matches than the average season ticket holder, so in the nicest possible way, stfu. 

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Reported for abuse :-)

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]That''s life I suppose, but I think that if people are seen as being unnecessarily detrimental to the team during a match, then every more sanguine fan should point out the error of their ways.  [/quote]Aha. Now this is where we bet to the nub of the problem I have with all this.What right do YOU (or anyone else) have to start lecturing anyone about ''the error of their ways'' ?  Unless they are breaking the law, you don''t. End of.Fair enough, you describe yourself as a sanguine fan. I''ve absolutely no problem with that. I err on that side myself. But I still maintain that , of the 27 k or so who attend the matches sanguine fans are in something of a minority. A lot more like to wear hearts on sleeves. And that is an equally valid side to take. Or do you not agree with that, either?

[lake district canary 4,540]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lake district canary"]That''s life I suppose, but I think that if people are seen as being unnecessarily detrimental to the team during a match, then every more sanguine fan should point out the error of their ways.  [/quote]Aha. Now this is where we bet to the nub of the problem I have with all this.What right do YOU (or anyone else) have to start lecturing anyone about ''the error of their ways'' ?  Unless they are breaking the law, you don''t. End of.Fair enough, you describe yourself as a sanguine fan. I''ve absolutely no problem with that. I err on that side myself. But I still maintain that , of the 27 k or so who attend the matches sanguine fans are in something of a minority. A lot more like to wear hearts on sleeves. And that is an equally valid side to take. Or do you not agree with that, either?[/quote]

Its quite simple.  In days gone by if someone booed or gave out abuse to players unnecessarily out of turn that people disagreed with at matches, people in the crowd around them would tell them to shut up.  Nowadays you can''t get away with that so much as you''re liable to get a fat lip.  So people do it, think they are not answerable to anyone - but they are.  This board gives people the opportunity to discuss the issue and tell people why they are not helping the team.   Much better to do it at the time at matches, but if that is not feasible, then on here is fine too.  If people don''t like hearing booing of players/team/manager during a match then they have every right to say why and tell the perpetrators why they think they are wrong.  

[nutty nigel 7,555]

None of these boo boy lame excuses explain why Whittaker was booed and jeered orwhy the new manager was booed and jeered.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"] Nowadays you can''t get away with that so much as you''re liable to get a fat lip. 

[/quote]All I can say to that, Lakey, is that if you spoke to someone at the match in the tone of voice and lecturing stance that you take all too often on here, then, frankly, I''m not surprised they''d give you a fat lip........

[Buh 0]

I looked around at the people that were booing on Saturday to engage with them about why they were booing but it looked like life had beaten me to it

Creatures.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]None of these boo boy lame excuses explain why Whittaker was booed and jeered orwhy the new manager was booed and jeered.[/quote]

They do explain it. The problem is that you just can''t accept it.Each to their own.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

That''s lame in the extreme. Yes to an extent it explains frustrated booing at halftime and fulltime. But not the boo boy player scapegoating.

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s lame in the extreme. Yes to an extent it explains frustrated booing at halftime and fulltime. But not the boo boy player scapegoating.[/quote]If you think any of that is new then you simply haven''t been paying enough attention over your 50 years Nigel.As long as people feel that the way they express their approval or disapproval is valid to them personally then it''s perfectly ok with me. You might not like it but things are as they are and not how you would like them to be.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s lame in the extreme. Yes to an extent it explains frustrated booing at halftime and fulltime. But not the boo boy player scapegoating.[/quote]If you think any of that is new then you simply haven''t been paying enough attention over your 50 years Nigel.As long as people feel that the way they express their approval or disapproval is valid to them personally then it''s perfectly ok with me. You might not like it but things are as they are and not how you would like them to be. [/quote]Whilst I agree with your point, I can''t remember it ever being as bad as this, even when the club was in a worse position.Have you ever seen it this bad?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s lame in the extreme. Yes to an extent it explains frustrated booing at halftime and fulltime. But not the boo boy player scapegoating.[/quote]He''s right though, Nige.The situation has been explained to you by several people on several occasions.But ,because it does not fit in with your narrow agenda, you choose not to understand it, and repeat the word ''dishonest'' like cracked record.But, that, of course ,is your modus operandi.

[nutty nigel 7,555]

No I don''t accept it reg. Do you people think everything is OK if some people have always done it? The mind boggles....

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s lame in the extreme. Yes to an extent it explains frustrated booing at halftime and fulltime. But not the boo boy player scapegoating.[/quote]If you think any of that is new then you simply haven''t been paying enough attention over your 50 years Nigel.As long as people feel that the way they express their approval or disapproval is valid to them personally then it''s perfectly ok with me. You might not like it but things are as they are and not how you would like them to be. [/quote]Whilst I agree with your point, I can''t remember it ever being as bad as this, even when the club was in a worse position.Have you ever seen it this bad?[/quote]Dear oh dear Morty, what we have today is relatively mild to some of the poisonous atmosphere''s of yesterday. I think some of you would be in for a shock if I could take you back to some of those times in the 50''s and 60''s, let alone the Chase out, poilice horses in Carrow road and zigger zagger zigger years.Not to mention of course the notorious cushion chucking days.Some people seem to have very selective memories.