Had just about enough of idiot Norwich fans

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="whoareyou"]Either way, new supporters or not, those three seasons under Lambert undoubtedly produced unrealistic expectations of our club. Those who have supported the club for a long time know the great times probably only come along every 10+ years or so.We had a few good seasons under John Bond, same with Ken Brown and Stringer. Then the glorious Walker 18 months, a decent season under Worthington and finally the Lambert years. There was a lot of dross and bad times in between those though.[/quote]

Agree about the unrealistic expectations.

I maybe looking back with rose tinted glasses, but the years from 1972-1994 seemed to me to have been all superb years in some way - even when relegated we just bounced straight back. So what you said was "a few good seasons" if you include Ron Saunders too, was 22 years!    Its only since then that things have got harder - and that is partly due to the money situation, or our lack of it.    1995-2001 seemed bleaker and then the Worthy era was better. How we got back to the prem with Worthy was remarkable, just managing to afford a couple of loans and the signing of Huckerby to see us through. Then 2004-2009 was bleak - very.  So by my reckoning, the good times have only been missing for maybe eleven years in the last 42, although admittedly the ups and downs have been more stark since 1995. So that''s eleven years in the last 20.................

Whatever, the club is now in a financially good position - which in itself is rare, if not unique in our history.  The only thing now is to get the team to look a bit more workmanlike and consistent, which even if we don''t get promoted, will mean things are on the up.

[/quote]Well, that made me laugh if nothing else.As City 1st might say. oh dearie, dearie, me.So, the years ''72 to ''94 were all good ''un''s then? No I don''t think so. There were four promotions and three relegations so there was certainly plenty going on but I would hardly call the relegations good seasons and there was plenty of dross too.You only have to take a look at the attendances for those seasons to see what the paying public thought. Our highest ever average was 28652 in our first ever top flight season, 1972/73. After this gates fluctuated with good and bad seasons but after 76/77 never went over the 20k mark for the next twenty five years.Indeed, after 76/77 gates declined steadily until 91/92 when they reached a low of 13,856. You also seem to conveniently forget the many years of management turmoil and financial problems during this period.Good times have always been hard to come by at Carrow Road. By my reckoning based on sixty years of attendance I would put the good seasons at no more than 25% at the very best. The vast majority of seasons are mixed with high points and low points so could be termed anywhere between disappointing and satisfactory.Perhaps I should have been more of a happy clapper but we are where we are and Nigel is quite right to say that the Lambert years were an exception. I''ve never seen three seasons like it and never expect to again. [/quote]LDC is famous for putting a positive spin on the worst circumstances ("Well, yes, the end of the world is upon us, with the extinction of all life, but..."). However I would defend him here, ricardo. Given our history and everything, to have spent more than 20 consecutive seasons either in the top flight or getting back there at the first opportunity strikes me as pretty good going.And I don''t think you can draw anything like a direct correlation between attendances and the standard and quality of football on offer Quite late on in the season in which we finished third in the Premier League, and still had a good chance of finishing top, we had three consecutive home games, against Manchester City, Blackburn Rovers and Arsenal, which had an average attendance of only 15,675. Yet for games in the third tier we had 26,000 in, and have been doing so for second-tier dross. That bizarre diaparity can not be explained by the standard and quality of the football. If that was the case those attendances would (capacity permitting) be reversed.I think various factors explain that disparity. Including that Chase seemed to ignore that part of the job, while the then new regime of Smith and Jones and Doncaster made it a priority, from which we are still - literally - profiting.

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]No I don''t accept it reg. Do you people think everything is OK if some people have always done it? The mind boggles....[/quote]It aint a case of ok or not ok Nigel. It''s human nature, it''s what people do.You have a perfect right to disapprove and I accept that it is more destructive than constructive but it''s still what people do. Some people smake and drink to excess and ruin their health even though they know that it''s a destructive way of life but they do it anyway.It''s pointless disapproving of human nature, we are what we are, warts and all.

[lake district canary 4,542]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lake district canary"] Nowadays you can''t get away with that so much as you''re liable to get a fat lip.  [/quote]All I can say to that, Lakey, is that if you spoke to someone at the match in the tone of voice and lecturing stance that you take all too often on here, then, frankly, I''m not surprised they''d give you a fat lip........[/quote]In real life,  most of the time I am like a pussy cat purring on a rug in front of the fire.  Unfortunately, this is more like a jungle - and its every man for himself - except for the wannabe top dogs, who think they are - or would like to be - Tarzan.........

[morty 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="morty"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]That''s lame in the extreme. Yes to an extent it explains frustrated booing at halftime and fulltime. But not the boo boy player scapegoating.[/quote]If you think any of that is new then you simply haven''t been paying enough attention over your 50 years Nigel.As long as people feel that the way they express their approval or disapproval is valid to them personally then it''s perfectly ok with me. You might not like it but things are as they are and not how you would like them to be. [/quote]Whilst I agree with your point, I can''t remember it ever being as bad as this, even when the club was in a worse position.Have you ever seen it this bad?[/quote]Dear oh dear Morty, what we have today is relatively mild to some of the poisonous atmosphere''s of yesterday. I think some of you would be in for a shock if I could take you back to some of those times in the 50''s and 60''s, let alone the Chase out, poilice horses in Carrow road and zigger zagger zigger years.Not to mention of course the notorious cushion chucking days.Some people seem to have very selective memories.[/quote]Obviously before my time, I have only been going 23 years.But the point is how relevant peoples reactions actually are. As I said, the club has been in a much worse state than it is now, and people have put up with more, with less complaint.People have every right to have concerns, or have a grumble, I just don''t think, all things considered, their reaction is in proportion right now. Its like they are getting their displeasure in early, pre-empting missing out on promotion.

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="whoareyou"]Either way, new supporters or not, those three seasons under Lambert undoubtedly produced unrealistic expectations of our club. Those who have supported the club for a long time know the great times probably only come along every 10+ years or so.We had a few good seasons under John Bond, same with Ken Brown and Stringer. Then the glorious Walker 18 months, a decent season under Worthington and finally the Lambert years. There was a lot of dross and bad times in between those though.[/quote]

Agree about the unrealistic expectations.

I maybe looking back with rose tinted glasses, but the years from 1972-1994 seemed to me to have been all superb years in some way - even when relegated we just bounced straight back. So what you said was "a few good seasons" if you include Ron Saunders too, was 22 years!    Its only since then that things have got harder - and that is partly due to the money situation, or our lack of it.    1995-2001 seemed bleaker and then the Worthy era was better. How we got back to the prem with Worthy was remarkable, just managing to afford a couple of loans and the signing of Huckerby to see us through. Then 2004-2009 was bleak - very.  So by my reckoning, the good times have only been missing for maybe eleven years in the last 42, although admittedly the ups and downs have been more stark since 1995. So that''s eleven years in the last 20.................

Whatever, the club is now in a financially good position - which in itself is rare, if not unique in our history.  The only thing now is to get the team to look a bit more workmanlike and consistent, which even if we don''t get promoted, will mean things are on the up.

[/quote]Well, that made me laugh if nothing else.As City 1st might say. oh dearie, dearie, me.So, the years ''72 to ''94 were all good ''un''s then? No I don''t think so. There were four promotions and three relegations so there was certainly plenty going on but I would hardly call the relegations good seasons and there was plenty of dross too.You only have to take a look at the attendances for those seasons to see what the paying public thought. Our highest ever average was 28652 in our first ever top flight season, 1972/73. After this gates fluctuated with good and bad seasons but after 76/77 never went over the 20k mark for the next twenty five years.Indeed, after 76/77 gates declined steadily until 91/92 when they reached a low of 13,856. You also seem to conveniently forget the many years of management turmoil and financial problems during this period.Good times have always been hard to come by at Carrow Road. By my reckoning based on sixty years of attendance I would put the good seasons at no more than 25% at the very best. The vast majority of seasons are mixed with high points and low points so could be termed anywhere between disappointing and satisfactory.Perhaps I should have been more of a happy clapper but we are where we are and Nigel is quite right to say that the Lambert years were an exception. I''ve never seen three seasons like it and never expect to again. [/quote]LDC is famous for putting a positive spin on the worst circumstances ("Well, yes, the end of the world is upon us, with the extinction of all life, but..."). However I would defend him here, ricardo. Given our history and everything, to have spent more than 20 consecutive seasons either in the top flight or getting back there at the first opportunity strikes me as pretty good going.And I don''t think you can draw anything like a direct correlation between attendances and the standard and quality of football on offer Quite late on in the season in which we finished third in the Premier League, and still had a good chance of finishing top, we had three consecutive home games, against Manchester City, Blackburn Rovers and Arsenal, which had an average attendance of only 15,675. Yet for games in the third tier we had 26,000 in, and have been doing so for second-tier dross. That bizarre diaparity can not be explained by the standard and quality of the football. If that was the case those attendances would (capacity permitting) be reversed.I think various factors explain that disparity. Including that Chase seemed to ignore that part of the job, while the then new regime of Smith and Jones and Doncaster made it a priority, from which we are still - literally - profiting.[/quote]That may all be true Purple, but as in all things I speak only for myself when I say that the vast majority of my supporting life has been uneventful. There have been high points and low points and supporting a club like NCFC is never going to be entirely a bed of roses. Some people seem to think that it can. I am merely saying that it can''t and that it never will be.If you want to be a long term supporter at CR and support through thick and thin times, you will find that there is an awful lot of thin.Once again, that''s how things are and not as I''d like them to be.

[nutty nigel 7,585]

Well if that''s the case Rickyyyyyy there''s no point to this thread, no point to me disapproving and no point to you excusing the boo boys.

But my view remains that this scapegoat booing can only harm our chances of promotion so I will continue to tell it how I see it.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]No I don''t accept it reg. Do you people think everything is OK if some people have always done it? The mind boggles....[/quote]The bit that I''ve highlighted encapsulates your problem in a nutshell, NN. From it, we can only deduce that you find the idea that someone might, just might, have an opinion or a mindset that''s at variance to yours.In addition to your tiresome ''dishonesty'' rants you never pass by an opportunity to regale us with the fact that you''ve been going for over 50 years. Do you really think that anyone is impressed by that figure or that it gives you the right to blithely dismiss the actions of others as beneath contempt etc ?Of course you are entitled to support the club in whatever way you think fit. But, whisper it quietly, so do the many thousands of others who count themselves as NCFC fans.

[Buh 0]

There''s no point in getting all old Yorkshireman sketch about it the fact is things ARE bad at the moment there IS a civil war within the fans.

Here''s a maybe more relevant question. Has our fanbase been this bad. This jaded, this divided relative to our current position?

[ricardo 7,396]

Morty.It''s always worse when expectation levels are high, as they have been this season.If you are expecting CR to be a den of positivity then you will be having a long wait. It never has been and never will be. I remember cautioning people during the Lambert years to enjoy them while they lasted because there would inevitably be a downturn just round the corner. Many labelled me a doom monger but I was perfectly correct in my analysis.If people refuse to accept the cyclical nature of football and NCFC place in that structure then they will be doomed to recurrent periods of dis enchantment.We support a club called Norwich City, sometimes we are up and sometimes down. You enjoy the up times as much as you can and grit your teeth and carry on through the rest of it. If you can''t take disappointment don''t get emotionally attached to NCFC.

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Well if that''s the case Rickyyyyyy there''s no point to this thread, no point to me disapproving and no point to you excusing the boo boys.

But my view remains that this scapegoat booing can only harm our chances of promotion so I will continue to tell it how I see it.[/quote]

Which you have a perfect right to do.[Y]Just don''t expect everyone to see it the same way.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]Morty.It''s always worse when expectation levels are high, as they have been this season.If you are expecting CR to be a den of positivity then you will be having a long wait. It never has been and never will be. I remember cautioning people during the Lambert years to enjoy them while they lasted because there would inevitably be a downturn just round the corner. Many labelled me a doom monger but I was perfectly correct in my analysis.If people refuse to accept the cyclical nature of football and NCFC place in that structure then they will be doomed to recurrent periods of dis enchantment.We support a club called Norwich City, sometimes we are up and sometimes down. You enjoy the up times as much as you can and grit your teeth and carry on through the rest of it. If you can''t take disappointment don''t get emotionally attached to NCFC. [/quote]Yes I understand all that, clearly a large section of the support, right now, don''t.Like I said, all things considered, the reaction is out of proportion.

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="Buh"]There''s no point in getting all old Yorkshireman sketch about it the fact is things ARE bad at the moment there IS a civil war within the fans.

Here''s a maybe more relevant question. Has our fanbase been this bad. This jaded, this divided relative to our current position?[/quote]

In times of trouble it''s never been any different.In thirty years time you will come to see that I was right.

[Buh 0]

Does this really count as "times of trouble"???

Really???!

I seem to have a much higher threshold for "times of trouble"

Given your 438 years of support if have thought yours would be higher as well

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

[quote user="Buh"]There''s no point in getting all old Yorkshireman sketch about it the fact is things ARE bad at the moment there IS a civil war within the fans.

Here''s a maybe more relevant question. Has our fanbase been this bad. This jaded, this divided relative to our current position?[/quote]Please tell me this is a joke. You cannot seriously think  a difference of opinion between a few posters - who almost by definition are going to be the extremists in any argument - amounts to a civil war. There were serious ructions over Chase, and the end of the Worthington era, and Cullumgate. The current spats are child''s play by comparison.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]We support a club called Norwich City, sometimes we are up and sometimes down. You enjoy the up times as much as you can and grit your teeth and carry on through the rest of it. If you can''t take disappointment don''t get emotionally attached to NCFC. [/quote]What you say is undoubtedly true, up to a point, and on the surface, Rick.But, as I said in an earlier posting, that type of ''laissez faire'' attitude is quite simply not what makes your average football fan tick.  He does not go into a game or a season in a Micawber-esque state of mind hoping something will turn up. No, he has expectations, and dreams. It''s all part of being a football fan. To put it in your words...it''s just how things are in real life. And when things don''t happen to his liking, he gets disappointed . it''s not thowing toys out of the pram. It''s called frustration. And no matter how many times NN bleats on about it...it''s simply how it is and has to accept it as such.

[nutty nigel 7,585]

Only to dishonest posters like you Eric. The vast majority of posters on here throughout the whole spectrum of opinions are honest and a pleasure to be around. But you are not. You never address peoples points directly just change them and argue against your new version. I had you sussed when you were Eric pickles and I have you sussed now.

I mention the 50 years when it has relevance to the point Iam making. The same as Ricardo does. Your dishonest spin of that just reinforces my opinion from above.

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="Buh"]Does this really count as "times of trouble"???

Really???!

I seem to have a much higher threshold for "times of trouble"

Given your 438 years of support if have thought yours would be higher as well[/quote]You have much to learn BUH.Time is a great teacher.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Only to dishonest posters like you Eric. The vast majority of posters on here throughout the whole spectrum of opinions are honest and a pleasure to be around. But you are not. You never address peoples points directly just change them and argue against your new version. I had you sussed when you were Eric pickles and I have you sussed now.

I mention the 50 years when it has relevance to the point Iam making. The same as Ricardo does. Your dishonest spin of that just reinforces my opinion from above.[/quote]

You always know when NN is riled, wriggling and people have sussed him out when he starts making stuff up and claiming things that he knows he cannot justify/prove.Just let it drop, Nige. There''s a good lad.

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="nutty nigel"]No I don''t accept it reg. Do you people think everything is OK if some people have always done it? The mind boggles....[/quote]The bit that I''ve highlighted encapsulates your problem in a nutshell, NN. From it, we can only deduce that you find the idea that someone might, just might, have an opinion or a mindset that''s at variance to yours.In addition to your tiresome ''dishonesty'' rants you never pass by an opportunity to regale us with the fact that you''ve been going for over 50 years. Do you really think that anyone is impressed by that figure or that it gives you the right to blithely dismiss the actions of others as beneath contempt etc ?Of course you are entitled to support the club in whatever way you think fit. But, whisper it quietly, so do the many thousands of others who count themselves as NCFC fans.[/quote]While I agree with much of your criticism Reg, I don''t think Nigel should be mocked for that. The length of time people have been supporters simply gives them a better perspective. It doesn''t make it wrong or right.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="ricardo"]While I agree with much of your criticism Reg, I don''t think Nigel should be mocked for that. The length of time people have been supporters simply gives them a better perspective. It doesn''t make it wrong or right.[/quote]I''m not mocking him, Rick. Just pointing out that he has a tendency to use it to justify this often weak arguments . Then he resorts to the fantasy world (see above) In fairness, not something you do, yourself.Many of us have been going for 30 years or more, and you are right....we''ve seen lots of ups and downs in that period . For once I agree with Morty in that things are nowhere near as fraught now as they were in the Chase era. I guess the existence of fora like this mean that arguments tend to get polarised and magnified more ?

[nutty nigel 7,585]

Well in this case the length of time should have taught you that these boo boy tactics can only have a negative effect.

You are as entitled to your POV just as I am Rickyyyyy. I don''t expect you to change just because I disagree. And I''m certainly not going to change just because you disagree. I think a lot of this is that you boo boys don''t like the label. I''m quite content with the happy clapper label so surely you can be comfortable with yours.

At the end of the day I believe the boo boys cost us points that positive support could have gained us. If the excuse is "its always been that way" then in the words of Jim Bowen ....

Let''s see what we could have won ;)

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ricardo"]In thirty years time you will come to see that I was right.[/quote]And if you''re wrong in thirty years time I''ll be bumping this thread up to remind you ricardo. [:D]

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]At the end of the day I believe the boo boys cost us points that positive support could have gained us. [/quote]OK Nige, if you''ve stopped the silly name calling (Boo Boy, Thickoe etc) perhaps we can move on.I know that you are very keen on people who are ''honest'' and can provide proof /evidence.So........perhaps you can quote chapter and verse on all these games where you can prove that people booing has cost us points . I am luck enough to be able to attend most games these days, and , for a start, I simply cannot remember that many games when there has been any significant booing during the game. Brentford..yes. but are you saying that , if there had not been the booing ,we''d have beaten Brentford ?

[nutty nigel 7,585]

You just quoted boo boy so obviously I havent stopped and see no reason to do so. Except that boo boy could be sexist however I''m convinced Rickyyy is male.

The answer to your question is in one of my earlier posts. You may have seen it and then twisted it to something else and argued that.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

The answer to your question is in one of my earlier posts. You may have seen it and then twisted it to something else and argued that.[/quote]Well, you''ve sort of answered your own question there Nige. If had ''twisted '' (another of your fantasies btw), then qed I''d have seen your answer and twisted it,wouldn''t I ?So, it''s a long thread this, so just to save me the trouble, how''s about you giving me a flavour of this answer of yours ? You know, just 3 or 4 games where we''ve dropped points due to booing. Was Brentford one of them ?It''d be nice, particularly as there''s another question (just to remind you the one where I enquired as to the whereabouts of the mass of clapping and support during the Brentford booing) that, as far as I''m aware you''ve failed to answer yet. 48 hours on. There''s honesty for you.

[nutty nigel 7,585]

Did I say there was a mass of clapping and support during the boo boys performance or did I say there was a mixed reaction?

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="ricardo"]In thirty years time you will come to see that I was right.[/quote]And if you''re wrong in thirty years time I''ll be bumping this thread up to remind you ricardo. [:D][/quote]Long odds that either you will be here to do it and that I will be here to see it[:D]

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]Did I say there was a mass of clapping and support during the boo boys performance or did I say there was a mixed reaction?[/quote]These were your exact words Nige:There were at least as many, probably more, supporters who showed their

appreciation to Hooper and encouragement to Hoolahan as there were you

boo boys booing the new managers decision. There were also at least as

many, if not more, supporters who showed thgeir apprecioation of

Whittakers efforts out of position and encouragements to Grabban

replacing him as there were you boo boys jeering.So, as you can see , a little more than just a ''mixed reaction''.You were complaining about the level of booing, so, by tour definition above the opposite must have been pretty ''mass''.You''ve been asked where this took place, but, needless to say, never answered. Just like the other unanswered and non-proved allegations.And to think, you accuse me, Indy, and even Ricky of twisting and being dishonest .......

[ricardo 7,396]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]You just quoted boo boy so obviously I havent stopped and see no reason to do so. Except that boo boy could be sexist however I''m convinced Rickyyy is male.

The answer to your question is in one of my earlier posts. You may have seen it and then twisted it to something else and argued that.[/quote]I''ve long stopped worrying about what other people think of me Nigel. In my mind I''m just an average supporter, no more, no less and I''ve loved every minute of my time at CR, even the bad times. I wouldn''t have wanted it any other way.

[Big Vince 319]

[quote user="Buh"]Excellent post

There is an internal civil war on for the heart of this club

Miserable people v those that enjoy going to the football.[/quote]

Since McNasty had that contract dispute with Grant Holt, the Board of Directors have made a succession of disastrous decisions and so discontent among the supporters is quite understandable. Of course the boy Neil needs time to put his own stamp on the side and in that respect the OP is correct.

However, the issue concerning an incompetent Board is simmering just below the surface and results will determine if it boils over into something resembling a challenge to the incumbents.

Of course if Delia and Wynny were to fall on their swords, and Mr Chase restored to his rightful place, everything would be rosy again and Norwich City would once again be the standard-bearer for medium-sized clubs wishing to attain success at the highest level.