Had just about enough of idiot Norwich fans

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy"]Thats fair enough Morty.[/quote]No, thats not how its meant to work, we''re not supposed to actually agree on things here!![;)]

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Morty, having spent much of my life with and around footballers let me assure you that they are far more concerned with themselves than they are with the fans, positive or otherwise.

Parma

[morty 0]

[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Morty, having spent much of my life with and around footballers let me assure you that they are far more concerned with themselves than they are with the fans, positive or otherwise.

Parma[/quote]Nope, don''t accept that.I shall give you John Ruddy''s recent reaction to fans'' criticism, as an example.Am sure there are plenty of other examples of players taking issue with fans criticism too, especially on twitter.So you can''t tell me it doesn''t affect / annoy them.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

It didn''t affect me. It didn''t appear to affect many of the players I played with. It doesn''t appear to affect Ronaldo. It didn''t affect Cantona.

It may affect those who are already unhappy, playing badly, on the way out, frustrated with their own level. However this is a symptom, not a cause.

Parma

[morty 0]

[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]It didn''t affect me. It didn''t appear to affect many of the players I played with. It doesn''t appear to affect Ronaldo. It didn''t affect Cantona.

It may affect those who are already unhappy, playing badly, on the way out, frustrated with their own level. However this is a symptom, not a cause.

Parma[/quote]Yes, yes, yes.But we are talking about Norwich City players, and debating whether or not fans criticism affects them, and a few have demonstrated that it does.Lets not go off on tangents trying to prove a whole other point.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Morty, having spent much of my life with and around footballers let me assure you that they are far more concerned with themselves than they are with the fans, positive or otherwise.

Parma[/quote]Nope, don''t accept that.I shall give you John Ruddy''s recent reaction to fans'' criticism, as an example.Am sure there are plenty of other examples of players taking issue with fans criticism too, especially on twitter.So you can''t tell me it doesn''t affect / annoy them.[/quote]Parma will speak for himself but I think he is saying that players care much more about their own view of how they have played, and the view of other professionals, than they do about the views of amateur fans.And that would certainly be my experience of a different profession, which was also in the public eye, and where you had professional criticism,  which you took seriously, and amateur criticism, which you generally did not, unless it happened to be informed.But, getting back to football, while, for example, Ruddy takes much more notice of what his goalkeeping coach thinks than he does of some fans who has probably never played in goal in his life, that doesn''t mean Ruddy won''t sometimes get publicly upset. Not least because he may well believe mich of the criticism is often ill-informed, and therefore unfair.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Players are players are players.

As professionals Whittaker and Neil know painfully well the mistakes they made.

Booing is nothing compared to the internal pain of self-judgment and the consoling platitudes of teamates.

In those circumstances almost all players prefer the honesty of anger, criticism and self-loathing.

It is football. The fans don''t make it worse.

Parma

[morty 0]

[quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Players are players are players.

As professionals Whittaker and Neil know painfully well the mistakes they made.

Booing is nothing compared to the internal pain of self-judgment and the consoling platitudes of teamates.

In those circumstances almost all players prefer the honesty of anger, criticism and self-loathing.

It is football. The fans don''t make it worse.

Parma[/quote]Whatever you say fella, we could debate this all night and I doubt very much you would concede anything.

[morty 0]

I am genuinely flabbergasted at the lengths people are going to, to justify acting like they are at a panto, not a football match.

[mrs miggins 0]

"Didn''t effect Cantona"?

He karate kicked them and went all Mr Miyagi on everyone.

[morty 0]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]"Didn''t effect Cantona"?

He karate kicked them and went all Mr Miyagi on everyone.[/quote][:D]Good point!

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Wow, go away for a few days , and this thread reaches 26 pages!

I haven''t read it through, but I hope it was full of reasoned debate, and interesting opinions....................?

[morty 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Morty, having spent much of my life with and around footballers let me assure you that they are far more concerned with themselves than they are with the fans, positive or otherwise.

Parma[/quote]Nope, don''t accept that.I shall give you John Ruddy''s recent reaction to fans'' criticism, as an example.Am sure there are plenty of other examples of players taking issue with fans criticism too, especially on twitter.So you can''t tell me it doesn''t affect / annoy them.[/quote]Parma will speak for himself but I think he is saying that players care much more about their own view of how they have played, and the view of other professionals, than they do about the views of amateur fans.And that would certainly be my experience of a different profession, which was also in the public eye, and where you had professional criticism,  which you took seriously, and amateur criticism, which you generally did not, unless it happened to be informed.But, getting back to football, while, for example, Ruddy takes much more notice of what his goalkeeping coach thinks than he does of some fans who has probably never played in goal in his life, that doesn''t mean Ruddy won''t sometimes get publicly upset. Not least because he may well believe mich of the criticism is often ill-informed, and therefore unfair.[/quote]No one can make a broad, sweeping statement (regardless of how much insight / experience they have in the area) like "Booing does not affect players" when it is patently obvious it affects different people in different ways, examples of players it clearly has affected I have cited above.But you know what? You know what the best thing to do in this case? Just don''t do it, just in case. Why take the risk of destroying a players, perhaps already fragile, confidence?

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Parma is correct that the players take more notice of informed criticism from inside the game far more than they take notice of uninformed criticism from outside. But that''s a different thing to the atmosphere inside their home stadium.

Are we the twelfth man? Or don''t we matter? Is a 12th man more or less use if he only turns up when the other 11 are winning? So many questions....

[morty 0]

A point also worth considering is the current plight of Clarke Carlisle.Footballers are the same as anyone in any other profession, they are equally likely to have the same mental frailties and feelings as anyone else.To try and portray them as machines, that care nothing for what goes on around them, or be affected by it, is just daft.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Parma Hams gone mouldy"]Morty, having spent much of my life with and around footballers let me assure you that they are far more concerned with themselves than they are with the fans, positive or otherwise.

Parma[/quote]Nope, don''t accept that.I shall give you John Ruddy''s recent reaction to fans'' criticism, as an example.Am sure there are plenty of other examples of players taking issue with fans criticism too, especially on twitter.So you can''t tell me it doesn''t affect / annoy them.[/quote]Parma will speak for himself but I think he is saying that players care much more about their own view of how they have played, and the view of other professionals, than they do about the views of amateur fans.And that would certainly be my experience of a different profession, which was also in the public eye, and where you had professional criticism,  which you took seriously, and amateur criticism, which you generally did not, unless it happened to be informed.But, getting back to football, while, for example, Ruddy takes much more notice of what his goalkeeping coach thinks than he does of some fans who has probably never played in goal in his life, that doesn''t mean Ruddy won''t sometimes get publicly upset. Not least because he may well believe mich of the criticism is often ill-informed, and therefore unfair.[/quote]No one can make a broad, sweeping statement (regardless of how much insight / experience they have in the area) like "Booing does not affect players" when it is patently obvious it affects different people in different ways, examples of players it clearly has affected I have cited above.But you know what? You know what the best thing to do in this case? Just don''t do it, just in case. Why take the risk of destroying a players, perhaps already fragile, confidence?[/quote]A question and answer probably better addressed to someone who has ever booed at a Norwich City football match. There may be some on this thread who have done that, but I am not among their number.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

it was never my intention to denigrate the input of the fans Nutella, and I certainly wouldn''t want to dampen the enthusiasm of a passionate supporter like yourself.

Positivity en masse is a collective power that can and does transmit. The atmosphere is inspiring and - like a church or concert - there is a hidden radio frequency that can touch parts of us all.

Footballers have however reached the top of a sport the world loves. They have done so by being competitive, driven and hardened by the extreme competition of achieving in a field where everybody competes for birth. As Purple says the real pain is letting your teammates, Manager and self down. That it is in front of - and booed by - 26k is disappointing, but not playing is far worse.

Parma