Under What Circumstances Should Hughton Be Sacked?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Just sayin mate[/quote]Bless.You sticking your bottom lip out because I reminded you that Paul Lambert has gone?

[Josh 0]

If we stay up, Hughton has succeeded. So many teams around us have also strengthened strongly. Swansea, Southampton, Fulham, West Ham. Even Cardiff have spent quite a bit. Villa are starting to look very good and have made astute signings. Newcastle have a talented but massively under performing squad, as do Sunderland, so we can''t write those teams off either. West Brom are looking weaker but we can''t forget they finished 8th last season. It will be incredibly difficult to crack the top half of the table so improving on our 11th place finish last season will be a massive achievement. Anyone who is expecting "progress" in regards to league position are deluded. This is an incredible competitive league so anything from 17th up will be sufficient.

[*** 0]

When we end up in the bottom 3, a few points adrift, then its taxi time for him.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

@Morty - Bit embarrassed to be pulled up on your ''I myself am going to review where we are after ten games'' :-( I myself. Those school years really paid off. Just sayin.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]@Morty - Bit embarrassed to be pulled up on your ''I myself am going to review where we are after ten games'' :-( I myself. Those school years really paid off. Just sayin.[/quote]There is actually nothing whatsoever wrong with the sentence.You''re making yourself look a wee bit silly here frankly.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

@Morty

I myself am going to review where we are after ten games.

I''m going to review where we are after ten games - this is the one you should''ve picked ol friend.

How was your trip back from Hull with the other ''real fans'' by the way?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]@Morty

I myself am going to review where we are after ten games.

I''m going to review where we are after ten games - this is the one you should''ve picked ol friend.

How was your trip back from Hull with the other ''real fans'' by the way?[/quote]Lol, if you say so mate[Y]Eh?

[blahblahblah 2]

We are able to buy internationals from european clubs because the new TV deal has made us financially stronger than most european clubs.  We are in the same league as other clubs who have been given the same advantage over the rest of europe though.On that basis, relegation is the only reason to lose a manager, unless we are so far behind come January that it makes sense to bring a new manager in to save us from the drop.It is ridiculous to be talking about this 2 league games into the season.  Hughton is here for the duration - let him build.

[JF 694]

After thinking about it i would give him the season unless we really are in trouble, but if he keeps us in mid table safety judge him at the end of the season on weather the football has improved and if he is the man to continue the job. As much as i hate the football that has been played for large periods of his time here, there is still the thought of the Charlton fans wanted wanted shot of Curbishly because he couldn''t take them to the ''next level'' when in truth there never was going to be a next level for them.

[morty 0]

[quote user="JF"]After thinking about it i would give him the season unless we really are in trouble, but if he keeps us in mid table safety judge him at the end of the season on weather the football has improved and if he is the man to continue the job. As much as i hate the football that has been played for large periods of his time here, there is still the thought of the Charlton fans wanted wanted shot of Curbishly because he couldn''t take them to the ''next level'' when in truth there never was going to be a next level for them.[/quote]Well we did say at the time we were following "The Charlton model"I am quite proud of the fact that people now see us as the right way to do business.

[Lavanche 0]

Well I have said this earlier, but in my opinion Hughton is way better manager than what Lambert was and even thought I dont agree with everything he does, I can see clear point behind what he is doing and why.

After saying that, if we are 3-5 points under relegation line at december we should sack him. Sometimes things work sometimes they dont and in that situation "waking the team up" could prove useful and new manager would have time to consider transfers for january and make inquries.

In other cases I would not sack him.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]My thinking with Hughton is that I don''t see him being our manager in two years time. This won''t be because he''s poached by another club either. I feel like the club might outgrow Hughton''s style of play eventually.

Someone above used Wolves as the comparison. I don''t see that myself because they have a ridiculous owner who started interfering with MM''s work at Wolves. Then failed miserably to appoint a new manager.

I think we need to be more careful not to become like Charlton. They sacked Curbishley because they were tired of not progressing. Bored of mid-table Premier League finishes. Whereas realistically what else could Charlton achieve? Nothing, as it turned out.

We need to be realistic. We want to stay in the Premier League but we''re never going to be Champions League. Also, who here really wants Europa League football?

I know our limitations, but despite those, it would be nice to actually see us playing more positively and if we''re going to finish 17th or wherever, do it having had a go at the opposition rather than sitting back and playing with one up top all the time.

I think if we''re struggling badly around November/December, he''s gone. And would deserve to be too.[/quote]

This is the problem we have, so many of our fans have failed to realise that football has moved on. Please name me another team in the league that plays more than one up top? You mentioned your beloved Paul Lambert in another post, guess how many he plays up top???

[Row D Seat 7 0]

He plays effectively three up top with Benteke, Agbonlahor and Weimann. Benteke as the main man, the others two operating more as forward wingers, but moving forward to act as strikers when Villa attack.

I''d say that''s a pretty forward thinking line-up myself.

[*** 0]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]He plays effectively three up top with Benteke, Agbonlahor and Weimann. Benteke as the main man, the others two operating more as forward wingers, but moving forward to act as strikers when Villa attack. I''d say that''s a pretty forward thinking line-up myself.[/quote]

 

This. [Y]

[ellis206 0]

So on that basis we play more than one up top as we have someone sitting just behind the striker, as do Villa. Realistically, Lambert was a lucky man last year, they found an absolute gem in Benteke (who had allegedly been identified by Alex McLeish''s team) and if it wasn''t for him they would have been relegated, Villa fans were calling for his head for most of last season.Lets not forget that they finished below us, so clearly our tactics were working better

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="ellis206"][quote user="Row D Seat 7"]My thinking with Hughton is that I don''t see him being our manager in two years time. This won''t be because he''s poached by another club either. I feel like the club might outgrow Hughton''s style of play eventually.

Someone above used Wolves as the comparison. I don''t see that myself because they have a ridiculous owner who started interfering with MM''s work at Wolves. Then failed miserably to appoint a new manager.

I think we need to be more careful not to become like Charlton. They sacked Curbishley because they were tired of not progressing. Bored of mid-table Premier League finishes. Whereas realistically what else could Charlton achieve? Nothing, as it turned out.

We need to be realistic. We want to stay in the Premier League but we''re never going to be Champions League. Also, who here really wants Europa League football?

I know our limitations, but despite those, it would be nice to actually see us playing more positively and if we''re going to finish 17th or wherever, do it having had a go at the opposition rather than sitting back and playing with one up top all the time.

I think if we''re struggling badly around November/December, he''s gone. And would deserve to be too.[/quote]

This is the problem we have, so many of our fans have failed to realise that football has moved on. Please name me another team in the league that plays more than one up top? You mentioned your beloved Paul Lambert in another post, guess how many he plays up top???[/quote]

Please name me another team in the league that plays with two defensive midfielders in a five man midfield? 

[ellis206 0]

Please tell me when we have played a 5 man midfield?

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="ellis206"]Please tell me when we have played a 5 man midfield?[/quote]

Please tell me when we haven''t? 

[Herman 9,767]

Are you honestly on the fence or do you want Hughton gone? Reading this and the Fox thread there are a few subtle pops at him.

I am genuinely on the fence but Hull really tested my faith.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

The New Boy (Le Juge) said Please tell me when we have played a 5 man midfield?

Ellis 206 said Please tell me when we haven''t? 

 

 

The question to you both is ...

 

Do you mean when we have possession of the ball? Or when we have lost possession of the ball?

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Herman "]Are you honestly on the fence or do you want Hughton gone? Reading this and the Fox thread there are a few subtle pops at him.

I am genuinely on the fence but Hull really tested my faith.[/quote]

I just want to enjoy watching my team again, that''s all I want. 

The two defensive midfielders thing is referring back to last season really, because I''m hoping Leroy Fer will come good as a box-to-box type and makes us a bit more dangerous on the break.

As long as we are winning games then I will be happy, but apart from a 10 game run last season (and the last two games) we were in relegation form for most of the season. 

The slate has been wiped clean, I''m not calling for Hughton out after two games, I''m thinking 10-12 games is healthier. But to win games we need to score goals. It does concern me a little that one injury to Leroy Fer means we might see a Johson-Tettey partnership again.

We have spent a lot of money on strikers but they need service and I just hope it comes. Last season still worries me.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

@ellis206 Obviously you were forgetting about Agbonlahor and Weimann when trying to catch me out on why I prefer a more Lambert type attacking style. Big fail on your part there.

I think Villa will finish above us this season. Yes Lambert got lucky with Benteke, but that''s what top managers need - luck. I''ve never understood this criticism that they''d have been relegated if it not for Benteke. Yes that''s true, but United wouldn''t have won the PL if it wasn''t for Van Persie. So what. Pointless argument.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]The New Boy (Le Juge) said Please tell me when we have played a 5 man midfield?

Ellis 206 said Please tell me when we haven''t? 

The question to you both is ...

Do you mean when we have possession of the ball? Or when we have lost possession of the ball?

[/quote]

I consider Pilkington to be a left midfielder, and Snodgrass to be a right midfielder.  

They are not strikers. We played one forward last season, that was Grant Holt. 

This possession vs no possession thing is stupid. Are Bassong and Turner strikers when they go up for a corner? No, they are centre backs going up for a corner. Is Bassong a centre midfielder when he travels with the ball out of the area and goes on a little break? No, he is a centre defender going on a run. 

Is Pilkington a left midfielder when he is tracking back helping out the left back but a left sided forward when he has the ball in the final third? No, he is a left sided midfielder doing what left sided midfielders have always done - got forward and got back.

[Highland Canary 76]

We need two of our three strikers in our team on Saturday and against Villa, and we should play for the win. We need to have ambition beyond the 0-0 against Stoke. I keep reading that this is the club''s ''best ever'' squad. Without wishing to question this, I am not convinced we''re playing the ''best ever tactics''.

[Mister Chops 7]

Bottom 3 at Christmas.

[basil brush 0]

I wouldn''t say that this is the best squad, but a better one than last year. The problem with Hughton is that he has a good deck of cards, but doesn''t know how to play them.

To get the best out of any team, you have to have the team and the management thinking and acting in a similar way. That certainly didn''t happen last season and I sadly don''t see it for this one either. The football will still generally be negative, when in reality, we have the players not to play that way (though there are times when that is necessary).

Ultimately McNally is the man who would decide whether Hughton would go and would show how ambitious he really is.

I''m giving Hughton the benefit of the doubt for now, but my gut feeling is that this season will be more of the same and many fans who thought last season was ''stop-gap football'' are going to be disappointed. The man and the club don''t quite seem the right fit to me and I think if the football remains the same - as I suspect it will, (especially with no shows away from home) then McNally will act sooner or later if the club''s PL status is threatened.

It''s all early days and I would love Hughton to prove me wrong, but I don''t think he will ever be the manager we all want him to be.

[Lavanche 0]

Newboy if Pilkington is middlefielder he is playing so out of place and forgets that he should hug the line.. We should sack him instead of Hughton. Same goes qiute much for Snoddy, but he sometimes at least drops to get balls from the middlefield instead of running behind fullacks.

We clearly have two winger on the field. Not wide players and to mention another team that has almost constantly used two defensive middlefielders: Chelsea, and quick to think Tottenham and Man City pops in my mind too. Apart from Chelsea neither of other teams play very defensively. Also previous time Tottenham had 3 players whose main position is a deep middlefielder as Dembele, Capoue and Paulinho started game against Swansea.

When we attack we play 4-2-3-1 and when we defend we have 4-4-1-1, but so does most of the teams that use same formation.

[Juggy 0]

A few people have said that nothing other than a relegation should result in a Hughton sacking. I disagree.

For the record, I don''t think we will be anywhere near relegation, I think we will have a better season, score more goals, and finish somewhere in mid table. 

But I disagree completely with this ''only sacked if relegated'' stuff. Aston Villa sacked McLeish after a very poor season, boring football, unhappy fans, and some transfer flops. He was too much of a nice guy to shake the place up and drive out the high earning deadwood.

They got Lambert to stop the rot. If we go backwards as a club this season then I would expect McNally to do a similar thing. 

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Lavanche"]Newboy if Pilkington is middlefielder he is playing so out of place and forgets that he should hug the line.. We should sack him instead of Hughton. Same goes qiute much for Snoddy, but he sometimes at least drops to get balls from the middlefield instead of running behind fullacks.

We clearly have two winger on the field. Not wide players and to mention another team that has almost constantly used two defensive middlefielders: Chelsea, and quick to think Tottenham and Man City pops in my mind too. Apart from Chelsea neither of other teams play very defensively. Also previous time Tottenham had 3 players whose main position is a deep middlefielder as Dembele, Capoue and Paulinho started game against Swansea.

When we attack we play 4-2-3-1 and when we defend we have 4-4-1-1, but so does most of the teams that use same formation.[/quote]

"Winger" to me means "wide midfielder" not "forward".  Maybe it is different to others. 

If Dembele is a defensive midfielder then I am a chimpanzee and can fly. 

[Warren Hill 0]

You''re right Basil, he''ll never be Paul Lambert. The New Boy summed it up by admitting he''ll be happy as long as we''re winning games. All this "negative football" and "defensive formations" talk is ballocks - it''s all about winning.

People continue to twist things to suit agendas, The New Boy just managed it on this thread by saying that last season apart from the ten game run and the last two games we were in relegation form - that''s conveniently discounting a third of the season - ridiculous. The final table is the fairest measure of last season and we finished 11th. What if we discounted 12 wins from Man Uniteds season? Where would they have finished with 36 less points? I can''t be arsed to look it up because you can''t just discount part of a season to suit an agenda, you can''t take points away because it doesn''t fit with your view.

Hughton being sacked shouldn''t even be being discussed, he just led us to our highest league finish in 20 years and has just spent our biggest ever transfer budget, if there was any doubt about the boards feelings on his credentials they''d have sacked him before they let him spend that cash. Unless McNally isn''t as astute as he seems of course.