Creative Centre Midfielder

[can u sit down please 0]

Just before his mistake, Huddlestone looking immense in controlling the game.

THAT is what we need.

[Warren Hill 0]

[quote user="Alfie54"]I don''t recall and long injuries!. There was a very obvious need for somebody that could actually control the ball and pass it accurately, but somebody like Johnson that clearly can make a tackle and has boundless energy was clearlya ''safer'' option. I keep hearing about Fox''s lack of ''engine'' I don''t recall Carrick at Utd being asked to cover every inch of the pitch, and it seems to work pretty well for them![/quote]

 

Carrick, Scholes, Gerrard....heavens above....we are still talking about David Fox, right?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Fox has the passing range and ability of a world class midfielder

 

I think our problem in previous seasons is that we''ve had players with singular strengths, and you almost need to play all of them to get the components you need for an effective midfield, which of course you cant do (unless you play a spanish 4-6-0), and so ultimately we have been forced to choose which midfield componenets to sacrifice. Fox does the deep long range passes, Hoolahan the close, penetrating, creative final balls, Tettey intercepts and breaks up play, BJ adds the muscle.

Hopefully in Fer we''ve got a player now who has multiple strengths. From what Iv read, power, tackling, box to box and a good pass, with a pretty good scoring record. But agree he doesnt seem to be that creative player we need.

If we could merge the talents of Wes and Fox we''d be laughing.

Maybe Hoolahan will be more effective with Fer in the team. Perhaps Hoolahan could be tried again as a central midfielder. Didnt quite work with previous central midfield partners, but maybe with Fer to do some of the things Wes doesnt do so well he might do better in that role. I certainly think Hoolahans lack of direct threat in the AM position means he is somewhat of a luxury - yet the team is so flat without him

Fer and Hoolahan as a central midfield partnership? 

[Militant Canary 0]

Alfie: I can confirm that he missed the entirety of last years pre-season with a knee injury. If you''re really desperate, I have a link to an article that mentions it. Or you can just take my word on it. Up to you.

He wasn''t back in contention until early September(ish) and didn''t get to full match-fitness before he then suffered another injury at a bad time in the season. Can''t find any link to that, but then I''m not looking very hard as I really can''t be bothered with this anymore.

[Alfie54 76]

MC, me neither

[Tetteys Jig 830]

That''s what did tierney in. He was going well until he got injured and then never got his place back. I''m afraid the likes of Surman, Fox and Butterfield may not get another chance. It''s not easy to oust the likes of Pilkington, Johnson and Hoolahan from the team on the basis of just training sessions.

[petesaull 0]

Couldn''t agree more with the OP - I''ve been thinking about starting a thread along the same lines. I would argue that our main problem last season was ball retention, the signings we''ve made haven''t properly addressed this.Leroy Fer is an upgrade on Johnson/Tettey - a ball winning midfielder who can burst forward when necessary. It appears that Hughton is not at all keen on our best passer, David Fox, and he''ll probably be offloaded. That leaves us with no-one who can dictate our rhythm from deep, and bring our forwards in to play (pretty important in a 4-2-3-1).Some have suggested that this kind of player wouldn''t come cheap - probably not, but there are plenty of options out there, not least in La Liga where possession-based play is the norm.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

I''ll say it again, but Leroy Fer probably has as good a passing range as Fox. Just because he is a big, strong guy doesn''t mean he can''t pass it around as well.

 

I really hope Hughton doesn''t make the same mistake as McClaren and play Fer as a defensive midfielder, he has so much more to offer than that - it would be like how Mancini often wasted Yaya Toure by playing him as a holding midfielder.

[Joanna Grey 0]

TGMD wrote - "Hoolahan the close, penetrating, creative final balls"

When was the last time he did that though? Attacks stall when Wes gets the ball, I''m afraid that decent money needs spending on a upgrade there as it''s our weakest link.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Fleckys Flip Flop"]

http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/2935/Stages/5476/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2011-2012

According to this website, Fox had the 92nd best pass success percentage in the premier league in 2011/2012. Wes was our most successful at number 40. He was well behind players like Mark Davies, Leon Britton, Karl Henry and James McCarthy. Statistically then, it seems he isn''t the best passer at the club. He didn''t exactly disply his best qualities in the Luton game either. He doesn''t get a game because he isn''t a good option compared to what we already have. His 83% success rate was actually bettered this year by, not only Wes, but...... ALEX TETTEY!!

[/quote]

"Statistically he isn''t the best passer at the club". 

Statistically 97% of me couldn''t give a monkeys about the statistics, and 98% of that 97% just thinks that none of those players mentioned can do the things that Fox can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1caGKNls7Ks

If any man can watch that and then argue that Karl f*ck*ng Henry is a better passer than David Fox then they need to be lined up against a wall facing a firing squad. 

I''d recommend watching the 2010/11 and 2011/12 season review DVDs, and count how many of our goals in those two seasons involved David Fox. 

Grant Holt goes down as a legendary Norwich number 9, without David Fox he wouldn''t be remembered. If I were Grant I''d be knocking on Owen Coyles door and begging him to sign him. 

If Karl Henry is statistically better than David Fox then I think statistics should be banned and all mathematics books burnt. 

[Juggy 0]

That video almost brings a tear to me eye, what a great team and what great moments. I don''t think we will ever have a squad as bonded with each other and with the fans as the one Paul Lambert built here. 

They are all legends in my eyes, but Fox will always be held in the same esteem as Holt and Hoolahan with me. Didn''t become the media darling or take many plaudits, but the bare truth is that he was our primary creative force - not Hoolahan. 

[Crispy 4]

David Fox is not the Messiah ..... he''s a very naughty good.

Neither is his range of passing ''World Class''. If he had a few more strings to his bow yeh sure he would e a decent premiership midfielder, as it is he is a decent squad player.

If he was a ''World Class'' passer then we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Crispy"]David Fox is not the Messiah ..... he''s a very naughty good.

Neither is his range of passing ''World Class''. If he had a few more strings to his bow yeh sure he would e a decent premiership midfielder, as it is he is a decent squad player.

If he was a ''World Class'' passer then we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.[/quote]

David Fox should have been in the team last season. We saw Tettey have seven or eight good games and then look like a league one player. We had Howson who was a complete liability up until the last month, Hoolahan who could do everything apart from play the final ball.

We had Snodgrass and Pilkington who at times seemed incapable of crossing the ball. Our complete inability to create chances somehow transcended into Grant Holt being blamed for not converting these non-existent chances, whilst David Fox sat in the reserves having been ''statistically'' the best crosser of the ball in the previous season and finishing third in our player of the season awards. 

Hughton gave Fox a grand total of 0 premier league starts after handing him a new two year contract. From those 0 starts some of our fans seem to have relegated him from the status of one of our most talented and respected players to mere ''squad filler'' making up the numbers. 

There was no logical reason for Hughton not playing Fox last season with Howson and Tettey playing the way that they did for much of the year. I think he really needs to leave and play football, he is far too good to be sitting rotting in the reserves of a team with a manager who is unwilling to change his tactics and formation or rotate a squad. 

I do think it is a shame that it has taken just one year for fans to dismiss Fox as a ''decent squad player'' when he has infinite times more talent and impact than any of our other central midfielders from last season. 

He is remembered fondly by anybody other than me? 

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Crispy"] we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.[/quote]

How would that work then, who would he be passing the ball to? Backwards and sideways to the defensive players? 

[Warren Hill 0]

[quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Crispy"] we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.[/quote]

How would that work then, who would he be passing the ball to? Backwards and sideways to the defensive players? 

[/quote]

He has a world class range of passing and ability, he''d work something out. Like he did against Luton.....

And yes, it''s unfair to use that game as a benchmark but then if you can use statistics to suit your end and then say that you don''t care about statistics, it''s fair enough.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Crispy"] we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.[/quote]

How would that work then, who would he be passing the ball to? Backwards and sideways to the defensive players? 

[/quote]

He has a world class range of passing and ability, he''d work something out. Like he did against Luton.....

And yes, it''s unfair to use that game as a benchmark but then if you can use statistics to suit your end and then say that you don''t care about statistics, it''s fair enough.[/quote]

Yes it is unfair. It is unfair because he missed most of his pre-season and then had five months of playing pretty much no football apart from Under 21 games with kids. Like many of the other players on the pitch in that game. He was completely ineffective against a fit and strong Luton team for precisely the same reason why our entire squad was ineffective against San Jose last week. 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

So how good is David Fox?? Seriously??? I doubt there are any English players who have the passing range and ability of a world class player and if there is it''s certainly not David Fox. It seems as soon as a player doesn''t play for any length of time their stock rises to an unbelievable level.

 

I reckon if Leroy Fer is left out for 10 games he will be the best midfielder in the universe...

 

 

[Alfie54 76]

I''m with you New Boy, Fox was brilliant the previous season and his reward was to barely get a kick, although I do remember the pass to Jackson against Peterboro, I don''t recall seeing too many of them from our midfield. Clearly there are better players out there, as there are for most positions, but he is a fine player and should be given his chance.

[lake district canary 4,531]

If Fox is still here it means he has a role to play, big or small.  However, Fer and Howson will do for me as a central pairing with back up from Johnson, Tettey and Fox and Surman.   If we are going to go 442, or 4411 using Hoolahan behind RVW, this would be good enough for most teams.  I believe Howson has turned the corner and will show us now what he did in the last two games.  He has proved to himself he can do it at the top level - so he will have that inner confidence.  

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I hope you''re right about Howson, LDC, as he finally showed what he is capable of in those last games. Fer will add a whole new dimension to the midfield, IMO, and Howson, Johnson and Tettey will benefit from that.

[ZLF 274]

Jimmy Smith quoted - We seem a bit overrun with centre mids if anything!

The issue was exactly that - we are over run with too many players who not quite good enough - for the majority of games last season our central midfeld was simply over run and second best. So yes - that means letting some go.

While we cant (and wont) start with just 2 strikers for me improving the starting pair in central midfield was always this seasons priority.

A partner for Fer is a must.

[ZLF 274]

[quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Crispy"] we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.[/quote]

How would that work then, who would he be passing the ball to? Backwards and sideways to the defensive players? 

[/quote]

He has a world class range of passing and ability, he''d work something out. Like he did against Luton.....

And yes, it''s unfair to use that game as a benchmark but then if you can use statistics to suit your end and then say that you don''t care about statistics, it''s fair enough.[/quote]

Yes it is unfair. It is unfair because he missed most of his pre-season and then had five months of playing pretty much no football apart from Under 21 games with kids. Like many of the other players on the pitch in that game. He was completely ineffective against a fit and strong Luton team for precisely the same reason why our entire squad was ineffective against San Jose last week. 

[/quote]

By the Luton game unfitness should not have been an issue for Fox - vastly inferior opposition and 4 months to get match fit.

His performance was not good enough that day - what its all to often overlooked is that while fox was poor so were the other 11-12 players who appeared for city that day - including Foxs partner that day - Johnny Howson.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"][quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="The New Boy"][quote user="Crispy"] we would pack in the midfield with defensive players and pass him the ball at every opportunity to utilise this world class he supposedly has. We don''t and he isn''t.[/quote]

How would that work then, who would he be passing the ball to? Backwards and sideways to the defensive players? 

[/quote]

He has a world class range of passing and ability, he''d work something out. Like he did against Luton.....

And yes, it''s unfair to use that game as a benchmark but then if you can use statistics to suit your end and then say that you don''t care about statistics, it''s fair enough.[/quote]

Yes it is unfair. It is unfair because he missed most of his pre-season and then had five months of playing pretty much no football apart from Under 21 games with kids. Like many of the other players on the pitch in that game. He was completely ineffective against a fit and strong Luton team for precisely the same reason why our entire squad was ineffective against San Jose last week. 

[/quote]

By the Luton game unfitness should not have been an issue for Fox - vastly inferior opposition and 4 months to get match fit.

His performance was not good enough that day - what its all to often overlooked is that while fox was poor so were the other 11-12 players who appeared for city that day - including Foxs partner that day - Johnny Howson.[/quote]

It would also be fair to mention the performance of Fox in the previous round away to Peterborough, in particular the beautiful sixty yard weighted pass over the defence which landed perfectly on Simeon Jackson''s chest for the second goal. 

1:17 http://youtu.be/_SL7fDVGB2Y

You won''t see many better passes than that and certainly none from Tettey or Johnson. Then we ask ourselves why it was that all our strikers were ineffective last season. Strikers need service. Fox provides service. Doesn''t get any simpler than that. 

[Warren Hill 0]

To provide balance, I don''t suppose you''ve got any footage of him passing the ball into the crowd from the Luton game?

And Zipper, you are quite right about the team performance. Some nails were banged into coffins that day. As for Howson, he went through a long period where I honestly began to wonder if he was colour blind!! Let''s hope he retains a level consistent with that shown at the tail end of last season.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Warren Hill"]To provide balance, I don''t suppose you''ve got any footage of him passing the ball into the crowd from the Luton game?

And Zipper, you are quite right about the team performance. Some nails were banged into coffins that day. As for Howson, he went through a long period where I honestly began to wonder if he was colour blind!! Let''s hope he retains a level consistent with that shown at the tail end of last season.[/quote]

I don''t suppose you have any footage of any of our midfielders playing a pass like that from any other game last season? You know, to help me out with the providing balance thing. 

It is make or break for Howson. If he doesn''t start producing consistently at this level then it is back to the Championship he goes. If he can play like we know he can for a sustained period of time, preferably the whole season, and score 7 or 8 of those wonder goals.... then he would probably put himself in the frame for an England cap. 

[Warren Hill 0]

Not against lower league opposition, no.

[Juggy 0]

Did you watch the Portland game then Warren Hill? 

Fox was head and shoulders above anybody else on the pitch, including our shiny new £9m Dutch striker, Howson, and Hoolahan. 

[Warren Hill 0]

No, meaningless friendly. However his world class range of passing and ability appears to have amounted to diddly squat as we lost 1-0...;-)

Do you think he''ll be in the starting XI against Everton The New Boy?

[Joanna Grey 0]

The New Boy wrote - "Did you watch the Portland game then Warren Hill?

Fox was head and shoulders above anybody else on the pitch, including our shiny new £9m Dutch striker, Howson, and Hoolahan. "

There was only one player who busted a gut (probably against CH''s orders) and that was Redmond. Everyone else had a forgettable evening stroll against mediocre opposition. Unless we tailor our tactics and formation completely around Fox I really don''t see him getting a PL game this season.

[Jonzey 0]

I agree with you New Boy regarding Fox in the 11/12 season. He was utterly fantastic and on the season review DVD is amazing how involved he is all the way through the season.

It''s funny how a new manager in Hughton can completely not rate a player who was one of the top three performers the season before for Lambert.

As for a new CM, I still disagree with most above. Now Fer is here we have plenty of excellent options to play with him in the centre of the park. We need to spend our money in more important areas like a forward or two.