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can u sit down please

Creative Centre Midfielder

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Anyone else still feel we need a creative centre midfielder? Someone that is able to get their foot on the ball, pick out a pass and dictate a game? Or am i alone?Im delighted with the business so far but i cant help but think we are still lacking a better version of Xavid Fox or a modern day Ian Crook. Fer can mix it and go box to box and can Howson. Jonno will get stuck in all day long.But please Mr Chris....Mr VW needs some help.

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Is Fer not that mix of ball winner, power and visionary pass? Or am I way overrating him and as you say a box to box man not the key to unlocking defenses?

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The problem is that the player you imagine would cost £15m+.
Fox has the passing range and ability of a world class midfielder, but if you want one who can do other things then you need to be calling Barcelona and seeing who they have on the bench.
I can''t think of two many players who match this description, can you? Unless we can tempt Paul Scholes out of retirement. 
The best that we could hope for is an anchor man who does all the simple stuff right, we need a Bradley Johnson that can pass more consistently and accurate. Fer is our Tettey upgrade. 
What we probably need is a Youssef Safri sitting at the base of our midfield. A young Youssef Safri of course, I''m not suggesting that we re-sign him at 37. 

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Fox has the passing range and ability of a world class midfielder

No he doesn''t. Fox can ping a decent ball but to suggest he has the passing incisiveness of a world class player, or, in fact ANY attributes of a world class player is laughable.

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]Fox has the passing range and ability of a world class midfielder

No he doesn''t. Fox can ping a decent ball but to suggest he has the passing incisiveness of a world class player, or, in fact ANY attributes of a world class player is laughable.[/quote]
What is laughable is that you think that every world class midfielder is one who sits and sprays fifty yard passes around all day. Patrick Vieira and Claude Makelele would seldom pass the ball further than fifteen yards. 
I know, why don''t Norwich just sign Andrea Pirlo? Twit. 

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[quote user="Warren Hill"] to suggest he has the passing incisiveness of a world class player.[/quote]
World class midfielder = Steven Gerrard
2011/2012 passing accuracy = David Fox superior
Most accurate crosser in the Premier League 2011/2012 = David Fox
And so on and so on. 

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Where did I say any of that?

YOU said:

Fox has the passing range and ability of a world class midfielder

I said that he doesn''t.

You''re now banging on about Makelele, Vieira and Pirlo?

Your village is calling.....

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]Where did I say any of that?

YOU said:

Fox has the passing range and ability of a world class midfielder

I said that he doesn''t.

You''re now banging on about Makelele, Vieira and Pirlo?

Your village is calling.....[/quote]
He does though. 

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You really are a tool.

You basically argue against yourself?

Your statistical straw-clutching is as laughable as your original suggestion. SO Fox completed more passes than Gerrard. Where on the pitch? Out of a sample of what? Against what opposition? Leading to what?

I dare say the Liverpool back 4 of the 80s had decent pass completion stats backwards and forwards to each other and Grobelaar.

If you think Gerrard and Fox are comparable, well, tell me what you''ve been drinking and where, I''ll have a couple of scoops with you.

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Gerrard and Fox are not a comparison, because they are completely different players.
Gerrard is the complete midfielder. 
Fox is not. 
Fox wouldn''t cost £15m.
Gerrard probably would.
Thus, refer back to my point. 
Which is that if Fox could do anything else other than pass.
He would be worth £15m.
I said that Fox has a world class passing range. 
You said he doesn''t.
I did not say that he was a world class midfielder.
You seem to think I did.
A world class midfielder can do many things. 
Fox cannot.
What Fox can do is pass.
Extremely well.
Left, right, back, forward, short, long, high, low.

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David Fox remains the best passer and cross of the ball at our club and our lack of chances last season with Fox not involved was no coincidence.
I wonder whether we are even talking about the same David Fox, I''m talking about the one who spent six years being schooled by Paul Scholes in the art of passing. The one who came third in our player of the season awards in 2011/12, the one who was proven the most accurate crosser of the ball in the Premier League in 2011/12, the one who ran our midfield in the promotion season and finished with 10 assists. 
Is it because he is a distant memory now? 
David Fox always was an unsung hero, but he remains the most talented passer of the ball that we have had since Ian Crook and when he moves to pastures new (probably this summer) I shall be wishing him the greatest of luck and following the rest of his career just like Grant Holt. 
The man is a legend. It always was the people who didn''t understand football that didn''t rate Fox! 

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[quote user="The New Boy"]David Fox remains the best passer and cross of the ball at our club and our lack of chances last season with Fox not involved was no coincidence.
I wonder whether we are even talking about the same David Fox, I''m talking about the one who spent six years being schooled by Paul Scholes in the art of passing. The one who came third in our player of the season awards in 2011/12, the one who was proven the most accurate crosser of the ball in the Premier League in 2011/12, the one who ran our midfield in the promotion season and finished with 10 assists. 
Is it because he is a distant memory now? 
David Fox always was an unsung hero, but he remains the most talented passer of the ball that we have had since Ian Crook and when he moves to pastures new (probably this summer) I shall be wishing him the greatest of luck and following the rest of his career just like Grant Holt. 
The man is a legend. It always was the people who didn''t understand football that didn''t rate Fox! 

[/quote]

 

Pretty accurate assessment of Fox as far as I''m concern - can''t understand how anyone can call the writer "tool" 

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[quote user="Snoddys Jockstrap"]There is no way Fox is anywhere near world class.

I get it, you like him; but let''s just be reasonable and not stoke the flames of bullsh*t yeh?[/quote]
Nobody said that Fox is world class and if you concluded that from this thread then I would suggest taking an adult literacy class. 

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While I think a striker or 2 and a central defender have to be priority, I wouldn''t be against bringing the right midfielder in.I live with a Forest fan who says their local press was suggesting we''d put in a bid for Adlene Guedioura. I think he would be a great signing because he''s a deep-lying playmaker, like Fox, but can also tackle very well.Wolves were fools to let him go

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I think the days of a midfielder whose role is to just spray passes around are coming to an end, especially in the Premier League. The closest thing to that player is Carrick or Arteta, but they have as much responsibility in breaking up attacks.

 

Leroy Fer is a better passer of the ball than David Fox, a player whose abilities are being greatly exaggerated through the haze of hindsight. The creativity in the team will come from whoever is selected to play in the attacking midfield role, whilst Fer will give Norwich the midfielder who is able to break from midfield and force opposing teams to break their shape, giving space for more attacking players to use.

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Not saying the role is just to spray passes about but more someone who''s main attribute is the ability to pick a pass.

Westwood didnt cost millions for Villa and he was outstanding last yr.

We need a player that is able to penetrate the opposition,from a central area. Not wide. We have the flair on the wings to do it.

By not having it centrally we are in danger of being one dimensional.

Fer is an all round type of player that will make us a better team. What would compliment him would be that "Westwood" type player.

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It''s no coincidence that the last two seasons we''ve fallen short on posession, i know as long as you win it doesn''t matter etc. but that stat will have indirectly lost us points and tired players out before opposing players.

It''s difficult to see how Fox would improve this.

What would be great is if we could merge Fox and Johnno together. I truly believe with their best attributes, you could make a world class midfielder. Johnno gave the ball away far too much last season, but made up for it by being one of the most athletic players in the premiership on ground covered per game. Fox on the other hand rarely gives the ball away with a pass but hasn''t got the engine Johnno has, he''s kind of Paul Scholes without the goals.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]Not saying the role is just to spray passes about but more someone who''s main attribute is the ability to pick a pass.

Westwood didnt cost millions for Villa and he was outstanding last yr.

We need a player that is able to penetrate the opposition,from a central area. Not wide. We have the flair on the wings to do it.

By not having it centrally we are in danger of being one dimensional.

Fer is an all round type of player that will make us a better team. What would compliment him would be that "Westwood" type player.[/quote]Because Crewe produce some great talent.

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Fox spent most of last season injured. Got a bad injury before it started (as I recall... could be wrong), so lacked a pre-season. Then got another one in training.

Because of this, he was rarely up to speed with the rest of the team and had no real opportunity to break in to the starting 11. Bare this in mind before stating that he was ''criminally underused'' - there are reasons.

Besides which, by the end of the season, with his fitness obviously more up to it, he was on the bench a lot.

He may well feature frequently next season. There has certainly been no signs that he is considered surplus by Hughton.

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We seem a bit overrun with centre mids if anything! If Fox and Butterfield still have a future here, then where do they fit with Johnno, Howson, Tettey, Fer and Wes usually fighting for 2/3 spaces? 7 players would eventually need to become 5 I think.

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[quote user="The New Boy"]David Fox remains the best passer and cross of the ball at our club and our lack of chances last season with Fox not involved was no coincidence.


I wonder whether we are even talking about the same David Fox, I''m talking about the one who spent six years being schooled by Paul Scholes in the art of passing. The one who came third in our player of the season awards in 2011/12, the one who was proven the most accurate crosser of the ball in the Premier League in 2011/12, the one who ran our midfield in the promotion season and finished with 10 assists. 


Is it because he is a distant memory now? 


David Fox always was an unsung hero, but he remains the most talented passer of the ball that we have had since Ian Crook and when he moves to pastures new (probably this summer) I shall be wishing him the greatest of luck and following the rest of his career just like Grant Holt. 


The man is a legend. It always was the people who didn''t understand football that didn''t rate Fox! 

[/quote]

May be approaching slightly dangerous territory now!

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In an ideal world I would love to see us go for Will Hughes to fill that ''game dictator'' position to come into those games where we need him. Looks like he is going to be a class player in the future - and an englishman with an element of that spanish style of simple passing dictating play is a rare thing. He is young of course but people with that style of play i think can make the step up earlier than others where physical attributes are more important. (e.g. fabregas and wiltshire became quite dominant influences in midfield from a very young age) The problem is that I don''t think that position is the major priority. As others have said its that support striker that could really make our current formation work. Wes is the perfect kind of player to play attacking mid behind TWO strikers, but with ONE up top its handy to have the option of a player who is less of an ''attacking central midfielder'' and more of a ''deep lying forward''

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Agreed, with the addition of Fer, Howson now looking the real deal, the potential of Butterfield now he is recovered from injury, a still quality David Fox, and Wessi our creative midfield is probably our strongest area.

I see these guys as potentially playing a more attacking role. Even as far up as off RVW (except Fox).

Tbh once one or two more forwards are added the squad looks pretty strong. I''m not sure where the other alleged signings will go!

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http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/2935/Stages/5476/PlayerStatistics/England-Premier-League-2011-2012

 

According to this website, Fox had the 92nd best pass success percentage in the premier league in 2011/2012. Wes was our most successful at number 40. He was well behind players like Mark Davies, Leon Britton, Karl Henry and James McCarthy. Statistically then, it seems he isn''t the best passer at the club. He didn''t exactly disply his best qualities in the Luton game either. He doesn''t get a game because he isn''t a good option compared to what we already have. His 83% success rate was actually bettered this year by, not only Wes, but...... ALEX TETTEY!!

 

 

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I don''t recall and long injuries!. There was a very obvious need for somebody that could actually control the ball and pass it accurately, but somebody like Johnson that clearly can make a tackle and has boundless energy was clearlya ''safer'' option. I keep hearing about Fox''s lack of ''engine'' I don''t recall Carrick at Utd being asked to cover every inch of the pitch, and it seems to work pretty well for them!

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