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Daniel Brigham

Martinez, Hughes or Redknapp

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Which of these managers would you rather want managing your club (if any)? My latest blog for the Pink''Un: http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/blogs/norwich_and_beyond/archive/2013/05/31/2928868.aspx

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Redknapp. Hughes wastes money and leaves clubs down and out. People praise Martinez a lot but he didnt really improve Wigan at all. A good manager would drive the team up the table. Redknapp has left clubs in poor states but we are like Tothenham when Redknapp took over and he made a huge difference.

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Redknapp !christ I woud rather have Ronnie Biggs running the local Post Office ...... there''s a chance that he might be honest and not make off with the money

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Martinez.

 

The writer doesn''t really to justice to the good work Martinez has done. In his previous piece he comments on how well Swansea have done since he left, as if to say he hadn''t done a good job for him. I would say that, of any manager, Martinez has done the most to get them where they are now. He built them up, got them out of League One and left them needing not much doing to get them out of the Championship.

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Talk about choosing the lesser of 3 evils. For me it would be Hughes, mainly for the reasons stated in the O/P''s article. Not convinced Martinez is a ''Prem'' manager (Which is why I don''t agree with the below statement. Yes, he did a great job of getting to the prem, but what has done since actually being there?) and lets face it, ''Arry just wants pay day after pay day, and doesn''t care who or what he destroys on the way.

[quote user="GJP"]

Martinez has done the most to get them where they are now. He built them up, got them out of League One and left them needing not much doing to get them out of the Championship.

[/quote]

 

 

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GJP - agree that Martinez did good work in getting Swansea to the Championship but I believe I''m right in saying he failed to get them into the Champ play-offs in the 2 seasons he remained there before moving to Wigan. Sousa and then Rodgers took them on to the next level. After Martinez''s poor record in the Prem, and his inability to get Swansea into the Champ Play offs, the evidence suggests his level is managing a decent Championship side. Looks like Everton might be steering away from Martinez now anyway.

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Again, as with other threads about Martinez, I think there''s a bit of an unrealistic view on what he could have done with Wigan.

 

Every season they''ve been in the Premier League they''ve basically been the smallest club in it (people often mock their small fan base and question their place in the Prem based on that) and yet people seem to think they should be comfortably safe from relegation every season and that Martinez has been a failure for being unable to achieve that.

 

We got to keep every single player we wanted to who helped keep us up after our first season. Wigan always sell their best players. How easy do people think it is to keep taking a club Wigan forward in a league like this when you''re always working under those conditions?

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Sure, although most clubs in the bottom half of the table lose their best players at some point. I also don''t agree that they''ve been the smallest club in the Prem:  under Martinez they''ve never been in the bottom three wage-payers in the division. With that kind of backing the least you can hope for is that your manager improves your team season-on-season. Martinez failed to do this. And as for Wigan''s defending ...

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[quote user="Daniel Brigham"]Sure, although most clubs in the bottom half of the table lose their best players at some point. I also don''t agree that they''ve been the smallest club in the Prem:  under Martinez they''ve never been in the bottom three wage-payers in the division. With that kind of backing the least you can hope for is that your manager improves your team season-on-season. Martinez failed to do this. And as for Wigan''s defending ... [/quote]

 

That is kind of true and not true. In 2011-12, the latest season for which accounts are available, Wigan were joint 17th in the wage league table. Swansea were bottom on £35m, we were next on £37, and Wigan and Wolves were level on £38m. After that there is quite a gap to Blackburn and WBA on £50m. And who knows what the wage league table for this season just gone will show. Only Reading are likely to have been significantly below Wigan, who may well have been in the bottom three.

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Again GJP I ask do you think that Wigans squad wasn''t good enough to stay up? Wigan have been one of the smallest clubs year on year but if they have such a good manager he should bridge the gap and keep them up as has been done at many other small clubs in the last few years (Swansea, Us!).

Players sold under Martinez - Kirkland, Diame (released), Rodallega, Sammon, Moses, Gohouri, Thomas, Caldwell, Amaya, N''Zogbia, Cwyka, Melchiot, Bramble, Scotland.

He''s had 3 seasons and has overly struggled in all of them. Steve Bruce and Paul Jewell had much better records at Wigan and were comfortably mid-table in the prem (with the exception of 07) whilst also rebuilding the team each season and dealing with losing those ''best'' players.

Robbie Savage summed it up on twitter ''“So Martínez has decided to leave Wigan after taking them down, am I missing something here?”

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PC wrote: ''Swansea were bottom on £35m, we were next on £37, and Wigan and Wolves were level on £38m.''

So the two teams lower on wages stayed up showing money isn''t everything to avoiding relegation. A manager being touted for top jobs (or any prem job) should be able to compensate for other shortcomings and not have to hide behind the excuses of selling their best players or having no money.

At numerous points over the last season and the two others under Martinez, we''ve heard how good Wigan can play and can beat anyone on their day, so the squads have surely been good enough? What''s been missing then? Motivation, tactics, fitness?

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[quote user="Curious Orange"]PC wrote: ''Swansea were bottom on £35m, we were next on £37, and Wigan and Wolves were level on £38m.''

So the two teams lower on wages stayed up showing money isn''t everything to avoiding relegation. A manager being touted for top jobs (or any prem job) should be able to compensate for other shortcomings and not have to hide behind the excuses of selling their best players or having no money.

At numerous points over the last season and the two others under Martinez, we''ve heard how good Wigan can play and can beat anyone on their day, so the squads have surely been good enough? What''s been missing then? Motivation, tactics, fitness?[/quote]

 

I think there are serious questions over Martinez. Nice football but can he organise a defence? Wigan kept only five clean sheets, as against our 10. That said, Wigan have been among the lowest payers in the divison and there is no doubt that over several seasons there is a direct link betwen wages and league position. And Wigan may well have been in the bottom three (or possibly four) for wages this season. If so, then their relegation was line with their wages.

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[quote user="Skerritt"]Redknapp. Hughes wastes money and leaves clubs down and out. People praise Martinez a lot but he didnt really improve Wigan at all. A good manager would drive the team up the table. Redknapp has left clubs in poor states but we are like Tothenham when Redknapp took over and he made a huge difference.[/quote]I''ve been posting here for about six years and this is without doubt the most stupid post I have had the pleasure to read.

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I guess, Purple, it could be said Martinez has kept Wigan at the level it''s financial situation expects it to be but no better. Which, to me, doesn''t make him a manager who should be coveted by teams like Everton and Liverpool. Managers like Rodgers and Lambert - and Hughton this season - took their teams higher than they expected to be.

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"I think there are serious questions over Martinez. Nice football but can he organise a defence? Wigan kept only five clean sheets, as against our 10."

This has always been my problem with Martinez. We all know that paying low wages means you''re likely to struggle in the league. Fine. The players he could get in we''re always likely to be relatively limited in their ability, but they were a complete shambles at the back this season. A good manager should at least be able to organise a defence properly, even if the limitations of his players are eventually shown up.

Norwich are a good example. This season when we didn''t have the ball you could see the structure of the team. A solid back 4, pushing out together when needed. When a player found himself out of position you could see him realise this and sprint to get back in line with the rest of his back 4 (Russ usually, from where I sit was the most noticeable). This all comes from coaching, and it was really obvious to me that the Wigan defence didn''t have a clue what they were supposed to be doing.

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[quote user="Jan van Chopsburg"][quote user="Skerritt"]Redknapp. Hughes wastes money and leaves clubs down and out. People praise Martinez a lot but he didnt really improve Wigan at all. A good manager would drive the team up the table. Redknapp has left clubs in poor states but we are like Tothenham when Redknapp took over and he made a huge difference.[/quote]I''ve been posting here for about six years and this is without doubt the most stupid post I have had the pleasure to read.

[/quote]

Have to agree!

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Martinez did keep Wigan (smallest club in the division) up for three years in a row. Usually after losing his best players each summer.

He also gave Wigan the greatest day in their history when they won the FA Cup. Something no manager has ever achieved at NCFC.

I will be very pleased if Hughton keeps us up for at least three seasons.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Martinez did keep Wigan (smallest club in the division) up for three years in a row. Usually after losing his best players each summer.

He also gave Wigan the greatest day in their history when they won the FA Cup. Something no manager has ever achieved at NCFC.

I will be very pleased if Hughton keeps us up for at least three seasons.[/quote]Why do you think it takes the looming threat of relegation to motivate the players? You''ve got to question a manager if his players seemingly can''t perform well until March.

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[quote user="Curious Orange"]Again GJP I ask do you think that Wigans squad wasn''t good enough to stay up? Wigan have been one of the smallest clubs year on year but if they have such a good manager he should bridge the gap and keep them up as has been done at many other small clubs in the last few years (Swansea, Us!).  [/quote]

Do I think Wigan''s squad wasn''t good enough to stay up? No, Wigan''s squad was not good enough to stay up.

 

I know you use the examples of us and Swansea staying up but again it goes back to what I said about not losing your best players. We didn''t lose any of our best players at all. Swansea only lost Sinclair but were able to bring in Michu, de Guzman and a couple of others. Now, while Swansea are one of the smaller clubs in the league they''re obviously paying their key signings a decent wedge and they have been lured there by the prospect of playing for one a guy who was once one of the very best players in the world.

 

Again, I think with how the league is it at the moment, the strength of some of the teams in it (the top 6-7 places being sewn up by clubs well ahead of the rest) a team like Wigan are always going to get squeezed out sooner or later. I think it would be very, very hard for a manager to bridge that gap.

 

I''m not saying Martinez hasn''t made mistakes but I think some of the criticism I''ve seen of him on here is very harsh and very wide of the mark.

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Ok so forgetting the size of the club and looking purely at the managers influence, do you think Martinez has learnt in any way how to organise a defence (exhibit A - the Swansea game, the biggest in Wigans season up to that point)? Does he show himself as being a good motivator? Yes the team seem to want to perform for him but there has always been some toughness missing. If that''s the case at a small club, would he be able to bring discipline to a much larger job?

I compare him to Lambert in that he can play lovely attacking football but struggles to defend. Neither have improved in this area. The difference being Lambert knew when to move on before getting found out (possibly, I''m not starting that debate again!).

Will be interesting to see both career paths and what happens next at Villa under Lambert, but I think Martinez is a lucky man if he lands a top job and my original point was that I wouldn''t want him to be our next manager.

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[quote user="Curious Orange"]Will be interesting to see both career paths and what happens next at Villa under Lambert, but I think Martinez is a lucky man if he lands a top job and my original point was that I wouldn''t want him to be our next manager.[/quote]

Well, I think this is basically it, I rate Martinez and you''re not so keen, we''ll just have to see what happens in the years to come.

 

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[quote user="QHcanary"]"I think there are serious questions over Martinez. Nice football but can he organise a defence? Wigan kept only five clean sheets, as against our 10." This has always been my problem with Martinez. We all know that paying low wages means you''re likely to struggle in the league. Fine. The players he could get in we''re always likely to be relatively limited in their ability, but they were a complete shambles at the back this season. A good manager should at least be able to organise a defence properly, even if the limitations of his players are eventually shown up. Norwich are a good example. This season when we didn''t have the ball you could see the structure of the team. A solid back 4, pushing out together when needed. When a player found himself out of position you could see him realise this and sprint to get back in line with the rest of his back 4 (Russ usually, from where I sit was the most noticeable). This all comes from coaching, and it was really obvious to me that the Wigan defence didn''t have a clue what they were supposed to be doing.[/quote]

 

There are good reasons not to touch any of them - certainly as far as our club goes, they are all a bad fit with NCFC. Why these 3 in particular?

But more importantly, QH, your signature image is stupendous! Creative, amusing, and all containing an apt reposte to the ''boring Hughton'' brigade.

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[quote user="Jan van Chopsburg"][quote user="Skerritt"]Redknapp. Hughes wastes money and leaves clubs down and out. People praise Martinez a lot but he didnt really improve Wigan at all. A good manager would drive the team up the table. Redknapp has left clubs in poor states but we are like Tothenham when Redknapp took over and he made a huge difference.[/quote]I''ve been posting here for about six years and this is without doubt the most stupid post I have had the pleasure to read.

[/quote]

I have been on this forum for a year now and you are without doubt the most stupid person I have ever had the pleasure to meet.

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