Sorry, but we must spend big!.

[First Wizard 0]

I''m not going down the road of if''s, but''s and maybe''s here, there are other posters who are far better than me at that game!.

But we must spend big, to get back in the Premiership, its that simple.

Ashton, Hucks and Helveg are sheer quality players IMHO, none were cheap, hello?.

Yes, you can pick up a bargain, Francis is living proof of that, but if we want to go up, AND STAY UP, then the club must once again dig deep, sorry, but that''s the reality.

Quality, as a rule cost money, so why do I feel that the next addition to the club will be on a free transfer then?.            

[Chunky! 0]

I agree, to ensure we go straight back up we must spend alot of money.....

BUT! (A very big but too)

Can we afford to? I''m not saying we shouldn''t splash the cash we have (I''m not sure how much we do have, but I''d wager its not as big as we''d all like it to be), but the one thing we shouldn''t do is splash cash we haven''t got, its just a recipie for disaster, and nobody wants that.

I think we will get a few free transfers in, but just because a player came in on a free doesn''t mean he''s crap, there are many reasons for players being on free transfers!

Chunky

OTBC!

[NottsCanary 0]

If we stayed in the Premiership we would be spending big to try and stay in, but we didn''t. The purse strings have been tightened now we got relegated.

We will be picking up freebies and cheaper players who will add to the depth of the squad. But Jason Jarrett on a free is good business. If Francis does go then we will have a good replacement for free and can then use the money to strengthen another area... Right mid and Right back.

You say we need to spend big on these quality players... I think we have enough!! Ashton, Hucks, Francis, Green, Helveg. How many clubs can reel of a list of top players like that in our league.

 

[Alex Harvey-Jones 0]

I understand your point and to a certain extent agree that we do need to ensure that the players we buy are going to enhance the squad. However I also believe that (obviously) that most important aspect is to get promoted. If we can do that by picking up some good Champ players on frees or cheaply, blended with a couple of quality signings who will be good for the prem then I think that would be a good way forward too.

Its not just a case of spending big - its being able to attract the right players too. Just because we have money to spend doesn''t mean that players will want to come to us as we''re in the champ! If we get promoted then spending big next year (provided it doesn''t bankrupt us) would be more successful as we could attract a higher calibre of player!! It would be foolish to spend big on Champ players who may or may not be able to make the step up e.g. Helguson, Parkin, Eastwood are all players who would be expensive yet would not be guarateed to make an impression in the Prem!

If Greeno and Francis both go then that would leave us with lots of cash!! However as much as I really want us to make loads of signings I would much prefer us to spend nothing and wipe off more debts with the money than spend big on players who don''t actually improve the squad!!! Just because we have money doesn''t mean we have to spend spend spend!!!

[aaaaa aaaaa 0]

The squad is more then capable of getting is back up.I would rather see our club have a future then gamble with big signings.

[kdncfc 0]

Always felt we should have spent more last summer, as things turned out we were not very far from surviving and had the money somehow been found for Deano last summer then we would have survived. If we haven''t got a decent transfer budget this summer then I for one will be disappointed.

[clacton_canary1 0]

Nope, i would rather have a football team to watch and take my kids to in 20years time thanks very much!

Our squad as it is, is more than capable, and with a few sensible additions added to a sping of Shackell, Safri, Ashton, Huckerby and Mckenzie, there is no reason why we shouldn''t get back up at the first attempt.

There is absolutley NO NEED to put the clubs future at risk AGAIN when there is no need, only a fool would contimplate doing such a thing...

[TheMarshmallowMan 0]

Oh please!

Spending big can only lead to big problems. We''ve all seen it - look at Ipswich. Last season they took a "gamble" and bought Currie for £250k and a number of players on loan. They lost out on that gamble, and now the entire lump sum they received from Bent, and some of the cash from Davies has gone straight into debt collection.

I don''t want us to be a club who is once more forced to sell our very best players simply to make ends meet again. If that means being prudent, and looking for bargains like Francis this season, then so be it.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Oh please! Spending big can only lead to big problems. We''ve all seen it - look at Ipswich. Last season they took a "gamble" and bought Currie for £250k and a number of players on loan. They lost out...[/quote]

250K! Andrew. I had in mind 1.5 million pounds and upwards mate!.

Perhaps the binners spending only 250k on a player, IS the reason that they didn''t go up, yes?.    

We''ve had this argument before remember, when the ''we can''t afford Hucks'' brigade said it was too risky, hmm?..

[Campbell 0]

[quote]I''m not going down the road of if''s, but''s and maybe''s here, there are other posters who are far better than me at that game!. But we must spend big, to get back in the Premiership, its that simple...[/quote]

Wait a second: Helveg was a free tranfer and his wages are surprisingly low...Huckerby was £750k, a bargain. Ashton was bought using Premiership money...and I''d just like to point out that we still owe £1.25m for Ashton to be paid this season.

Ok, now let''s dispell this myth that it''s going to cost us millions to get back up...

The formula for promotion from the Championship:

Decent ''keeper + Solid defence + Workman-like Midfield + Creative Genius + Goal Scorer/s = Promotion

Now, what do we have at Norwich?

Decent goalkeeper: Yes. If Green stays, we''ll have the best in the league...If not, both Ward and Gallacher are decent at this level.

Solid defence: At this level, yes...Helveg  Doherty  Shackell Drury

Workman-like Midfield: Yes, Safri and Jonson plus one other Worthington will get in...this player will be an athlete, and therefore complete this part of the equation.

Creative genius: Yes, Darren Huckerby in the left-ish role...At this level, Huckerby can do it better than anyone.

Goal scorer: Yes, Dean Ashton...best striker in the league, with Leon chipping in with a fair few too.

So there we have it...

Now, this doesn''t account for injuries and the like, but to build a squad around what we already have here to have sufficient cover for injuries and that is still good enough to take us up will mega money at all.

We cannot afford to buy (nor could we attract) players that are good enough to keep us up should we go up, it''s a gradual process and we will get there, just wont happen overnight.

If we were to go up, then, and only then would we see the quality signings that cost decent money...Fleming, Holt, Jonson, Helveg, Brennan, Charlton would all leave should we go back up and quality players would come in. First priority is to get there,(Premiership) and I''m sure we will, and then you''ll see the ambition of this football club.

[Northern Canary 0]

i agree, but only if we can afford to. Its not only good for promotion but survival the next year. Holding onto players is just as good as spending big IMO. However, i think Wiz is spot on assuming we can afford to spend big

[Alex Harvey-Jones 0]

I agree Campbell! Why spend big now when if what we''ve got (+ a few new signings) can get us up??

[Alex Harvey-Jones 0]

It would be good if we could produce some quality home grown players too! The academy set up is in place - lets see some results. It used to work well - Eadie, Bellamy, O''Neill, Green to name a few! The best way to get quality cheaply - produce it yourself!!

[Salopian 1]

Well relatively big!Now that we are in the championship, any premiership team is more attractive to players, and we are up against a few teams who have spent or will spend more than us. Our squad is not good enough and not deep enough to guarantee us even a play-off place. I think that some posting here and elsewhere is over-confident, that we have only to turn up and promotion is certain.We may have a good strike force, barring injury, but what sort of service will they get? Above all how good will the defence be? We no longer have the presence of Malky, and we do have a slow and rather careless Fleming, and no right back?As the man said, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Any reasonable Bosman players will be snapped up by the Premiership or others, we may even rank behind Coventry! You can''t find half a team, (and we could lose as many as nine players from the squad in the end) from Bosmans, especially as many have already signed elsewhere.What can we do?Try to get some on loan? - certainly not nine.Raid the lower leagues for promising material - but they don''t come cheap these days, and we could be saddling ourselves with future discards.Splash money on one or two good purchases, who ought to be good now and in the premiership, and try to fill the other places with "adequate" players?We need several players. Injuries last season found out our small squad, and they could again if we do not have enough cover. We can only hope that Worthy and Co. have something up their sleeves. Rushing round at the end in desperation did not do much a year ago. The signs are not good, but let us hope.....

[DTT 0]

dont agree at all wiz. the team we have now is a lot better than the team that blitzed the championship last season.

we have a strike force that every championship team can only dream of. how many other clubs would kill for huckerby, ashton and mckenzie up front? we have a powerful strike force that will run rings around a championship defence. dont forget our defence last season was incredibly solid. and fleming was easily one of the players of the season... sure he''s not that cracky in the prem, but dont have short memories people, he''s still capable at championship level, and doc will thrive at that level, also a future captain in shackell will keep the best championhship strikers in his back pocket. drury has long proved he''s capable at left back. the main hole that may need to be filled is right back, especially so if helveg leaves, as we need a right back and a backup ideally. as for the midfield, safri has proved himself, holt is a usefull player at champ level, hucks can play left midfield if necessary, although id prefer to see him in a free role. i think the team we have could honestly get us back up. all id like to see is a couple of midfielders, maybe a centre mid if francis leaves, and a right winger. left wing can be filled by brennan, or maybe another player brought in.

we dont need to spend big at all... theres a lot of players about on frees, especially older ex prem players who would cope fine with the championship, and would probably thrive on some last glory before retirement a few years later.

remember... a relativly tight budget got us promoted, and then a slightly bigger budget got us some good prem class quality, some shrewd signings here and there could easily give us a damn good chance. we''ve got a good team, a team that most champ clubs would kill for. dont let the prem obscure your views. remember everyone talking about how much of a massive jump it is between prem and champ.... well, we proved our quality in the prem in the end, and apart from the final game, proved we had what it took to survive. now, logically, we''re taking a massive step down in quality, and also going down with an awesome strike force, and a more than adequate midfield and defence.

[smooth 114]

it is simple

we don''t go up next season our best assetts will move on... but hux will always stay

ashton, mckenzie and green will leave next summe rif we don''t go up

i would want assurances that we were building and were ready to invest

i think two class players and then a few young freebies and a good loan can make our squad ideal... as if we have injuries we have average replacements... and won''t be in the play off posn.s

quite simply... jagielka, blake... ostemobor and grant/cahill from villa... and then any others but the first three are critical... quality that can play in the prem. so won''t be outplayed like many of our players this season

[TheMarshmallowMan 0]

[quote]250K! Andrew. I had in mind 1.5 million pounds and upwards mate!. Perhaps the binners spending only 250k on a player, IS the reason that they didn''t go up, yes?. We''ve had this argument be...[/quote]

Wiz, Ipswich proved they could be promoted. Long before Currie arrived they were top, and looking set to cruise to the final whistle.

What cost Ipswich was an inability to maintain their momentum.

That''s not a problem here. Normally our momentum doesn''t begin until December

Seriously, what we need to do is keep the players we have here. As said in a post previous, we have all the elements needed to maintain a decent title challenge. What we lack is depth, and depth can be achieved without busting the banks, and creating a potential Leeds.

I''d like to continue to support Norwich, if you don''t mind, and not be forced to look elsewhere for my football!

[Robbo007 0]

I really cant see many teams who look better than us. Even our "weeker players" would get in most championship teams

[Tumbleweed 106]

I agree with Campbell that we have the nucleus of a side that can get us back and we need to top that up. Priorities would be a central midfielder, right winger and a centre back (possibly a right back if Helveg goes).

To fund this we must sell Francis. OK, we must get rid of Francis anyway, but we should use that cash to fund some top quality Championship talent but NOT the sort of player we will need in the Premiership.

In 2004-2004 it worked by spending when we were well set. We should do the same again. Some well placed signings/loans/Bosmans now and then a little splurge in January for a final push up the league. We MUST reserve a kitty for that final run.

When we are back in the Premiership, that is the time to tinker on a grander scale. And next time round Nigel must obtain players who do not need to "adapt" to life in England, and he must play them in their preferred positions.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Wait a second: Helveg was a free tranfer and his wages are surprisingly low...Huckerby was £750k, a bargain. Ashton was bought using Premiership money...and I''d just like to point out that we still ow...[/quote]

For goodness sake Campbell, yet again, you use IF''s, IF''s, and even more IF''s to support your arguments. I know you''re fond of that style of debate, and to be fair to you, others on this thread, have used it as well.

But please...no more IF''s!.

Then of course, we have the alarmist''s with their, ''City may cease to exist'' babble.

That will not happen, you know it, I know it and the club knows it!.

Just as in the Hucks saga, timid posters and some board members said we can''t afford him, we may go bust.

Hmm, right. And that''s my point!.

Trust me, IMO, the money is there.  

[Putney Canary 0]

Wiz, you are being unfair on Campbell. You used the IF word much more than he did, his IFs were about IF greeno leaves we already have good cover and IF we get promoted we will need to spend big to retain premiership status. I respectfully suggest you re-read his post.

Unfortunately clubs going bust is a real possibility, look at Cambridge right now. A lot of clubs have been kept going purely by fans'' donations, I don''t want to see Norwich in that category as I''m sure you don''t. If we had over-stretched in the Premiership, we would be having to sell Green, Francis and Ashton and promotion would be a thin hope for at least the next season. I''m glad we didn''t!

However I trust our board to open up what funds we can afford to spend. As you pointed out that is their track record, with Hucks and Ashton springing to mind. Its difficult for us fans to know what figures will be, and we need to remember its transfer fees PLUS wages. When you quote £1.5m and up, do you mean transfer fees only? What exactly do you mean by spend big?

I''m not an expert on ITFC finances, but weren''t they very stretched on wages with the likes of Counago still on Premiership level wages? Their gamble didn''t pay off, and it is doubtful they will be competitive next season. We should be with our current squad, and we will be stronger when the season starts.

We need to bring in at least 6 players, some of them will be free and some will cost money (though the ''free'' players might end up more expensive longer term because of wages). If the first to be signed is a ''free'' that will not be a negative thing at all.

[Campbell 0]

I still stand by everything I said in my post...and people who think we have to spend big haven''t said anything to change my mind. That''s the whole point of discussion; at least if you''re trying to make an initial point, or back up that point, try to do so with something logical or factual...it makes the whole process a lot more interesting and enjoyable in my opinion.

Like Putney Canary suggests 1st Wizard, read my posts properly before replying, and if you''re still not sure, re-read them until you do...it will save you looking clueless time after time...after time!

[YankeeCanary 0]

Campbell ( and others supporting his view ) is correct, of course. Wizard may be an entertaining old codger with his input or stirring the pot. Regardless of his motivation it should be clear to all and sundry that he has a child-like mind when it comes to money. He has absolutely no concept of where it comes from, what value is or how money is managed. That''s why he uses phrases like "we need to spend big" or derides others under the banner "we can''t afford Hucks brigade". What rational people were saying about the Huckerby acquisition is let the Norwich Board decide what they were prepared to spend or not spend. Of course, that''s still the case now with any current recruiting, but that does not sit well with Wizard because there is not a Board member anywhere that Wizard would trust, by his own admission. Last season Wizard had us selling Robert Green for 10 million pounds and not a penny less. That number was silly then and looks even sillier now. This season he''s telling Green to "sod off". Just mere examples of Wizard''s ineptness on how to manage a business or assets. It''s also why Wizard dabbles in the make believe of magic and crystal balls, an environment where all things are possible until, and IF ( could not resist inserting ), the dabbler finally wakes up and decides to join in the world of reality. I realize this is not likely for our Wizard friend so we will either have to humor or enter into mock debates with him.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Wiz, you are being unfair on Campbell. You used the IF word much more than he did, his IFs were about IF greeno leaves we already have good cover and IF we get promoted we will need to spend big to re...[/quote]

Putney: What I said was, that if we are serious about going up, and staying up, then we should consider at least spending 1.5 million, on transfer fee only, per player. Or to put it another way, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!.

Oh, by the way, if YOU reread my posts more carefully, you will notice that when I''ve used the word if, its used in a different context to the Campbell if. IF you get my drift.  

I won''t even discuss ITFC and their cash problems, its irreverent, just like them!.

Campbell: Why?. 

PS. Jason Jarrett has agreed term with City (Official Site) and will now sign on July the 1st, on a Bosmans, just as I predicted Campbell!.

Mind you, I think he will be a real asset to us.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]Campbell ( and others supporting his view ) is correct, of course. Wizard may be an entertaining old codger with his input or stirring the pot. Regardless of his motivation it should be clear to all a...[/quote]

Oh, you''re so clever Yankee!.

You always advocated we could never afford or indeed risk getting Green, didn''t you, Hmm.

And this cheap personal attack on me, is from a guy, who just written an ''open letter'' on these boards, to Green, effectively telling him, he''s bloody hopeless!.

Words like kettle, pot and black spring to mind Yankee, old chap!.

[Campbell 0]

Let''s dispell another myth:

Paying a ''decent'' fee for a player does not guarantee they will be a success in any way, shape or form...

• Ask Newcastle fans about Hugo Viana (£7m wasted)
• Ask Aston Villa fans about Bosko Balaban (£5.5m wasted)
• Ask Sunderland fans about Tore Andre Flo (£6m wasted)
• Ask Tottenham fans about Sergei Rebrov (£11m wasted)
• Ask Tottenham fans about Helder Postiga (£6m wasted)
• Ask Fulham fans about Steve Marlet (£11m wasted)
• Ask Newcastle fans about Marcelino (£6m wasted)
• Ask Arsenal fans about Francis Jeffers (£8m wasted)
• Ask Leeds United fans about Seth Johnson (£7m wasted)

If we can get a player worth £1m/2m/3m on a free transfer, does that make him not as good? Of course it doesn''t.

Whether we like it or not, you must run a football club like a business to survive...this means buying as cheap as possible, and selling as expensive as possible. You must remember that clubs want to sell for as much as they can, so the scope is there to be well and truly ripped off as a buying club...and as we have seen, getting ripped off can mean the end off the club in the mould that we know it.

I see no sense in arguing me must ''spend big'' when we can find the similar calibre of players (albeit not hyped in the tabloids as much or with the reputations other others) for a 1/10 of the cost.

Tonge for £1.8m or Jarrett on a free? Is there really that much difference between the two in terms of quality/potential to succeed at our club? For a difference of approximately £2m, there''s only one player I''d want to sign.

[TheMarshmallowMan 0]

[quote]Putney : What I said was, that if we are serious about going up, and staying up, then we should consider at least spending 1.5 million, on transfer fee only, per player. Or to put it another way, you ...[/quote]

£1.5m per player?? Worthington wants six players! Are you seriously suggesting our board should cough up £9m???

Wiz, your argument is farcical. You mix reality with blatent fantasy. We didn''t even spend £9mil in the Prem and here you are advocating spending that figure for a season in the Championship!

You can get good Championship standard players for decent prices. Sam Parkin, for instance. £700k for a player who''s scored 1 in 2 in League One for Swindon. Parkin represents a very class act for this division. Only something special warrants any extra cash being spent than £1mil.

There is no need to spend anywhere near £1.5mil per player. Besides, who would you honestly buy with £9mil? There isn''t a single realistic target in this division (ie no Peter Crouch, Andy Johnson etc) I would spend more than £1mil on. One of the division''s most rated talents, Danny Gabbidon, has been rated at £1.5mil only.

Seriously Wiz, I like arguments, debates, discussions as much as the next guy but this is pure nonsense!

[Gentleman Jim 0]

Wiz,

Quote:- "You always advocated we could never afford or indeed risk getting Green, didn''t you, Hmm."

Sorry mate, don''t understand, did you mean someone else perhaps ?

[Putney Canary 0]

I''m sorry Wiz but I think you are very wrong in your beliefs that you have to spend that much to get quality. Only Ashton cost more than £1m in our squad, yet he isn''t our only good player (although he is our best). Hucks, Francis (when he is on form), Safri, Helveg... are you saying they aren''t good enough for us because they were too cheap?

£9m spend over the summer is mid table Premiership level spending, it would be financial suicide for us to try and match Premiership teams spend wise. This isn''t timidity, teams have gone into administration trying. Half the teams in the football league have had serious financial crisis at some point which has jeopardised their future. Lets not go there again.

I do believe that Worthy and the board are aiming to get in players who are not only ''good enough for the championship'' but who will give us a realistic chance of staying up if we get promoted, which is what we all want. We should measure players brought in against that goal (are they good enough to achieve it) NOT how much they cost.

IF you are just being mischievous, I''m sure its a lot of fun but it doesn''t always help promote good debate. People on this board are getting entrenched into ''worthy in'' or ''worthy out'' camps and spend more time slinging abuse at each other than reasoned debate, it makes for very tedious reading.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote]£1.5m per player?? Worthington wants six players! Are you seriously suggesting our board should cough up £9m??? Wiz, your argument is farcical. You mix reality with blatent fantasy. We didn''t even...[/quote]

Andrew: Fair points, but I would counter that with the fact that Parkin is untried at Championship level, he would be a gamble. And I would expect him to choose the binners ahead of us anyway!.

Why, he''ll know he will be behind Leon and Deano, as first choice striker, whereas at Ipswich he''ll be their No.1.

My figure of 1.5 mil, was meant to be taken as a ball park figure, IMO, Worthy, despite what he says, will only bring in two players at most, which involve a transfer fee, That was my whole blooody argument, and you''ve just ignored that, why?. 

Jarrett by the way, is a Bosmans, yes?.   

2 players at 1.5, equals 3 million quid, does that sound like pure nonsense to you?.

I discount Yankee and Campbell''s arguments entirely, they both have other axes to grind IMO.

The misleading figure you quote, 9 million, is the only ''pure nonsense'' quote, I can see round here, I certainly never mentioned it!.