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First Wizard

Sorry, but we must spend big!.

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[quote]Wiz, Quote:- "You always advocated we could never afford or indeed risk getting Green , didn''t you, Hmm." Sorry mate, don''t understand, did you mean someone else perhaps ?[/quote]

Blast me Jim, I must be going senile. I meant to say Hucks!.  

Memo to self: Read before posting, and never post in anger!.

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[quote]I''m sorry Wiz but I think you are very wrong in your beliefs that you have to spend that much to get quality. Only Ashton cost more than £1m in our squad, yet he isn''t our only good player (although h...[/quote]

Putney: I''ll say this as plain as I can. I''ve never mentioned a figure of 9 million, others have, I have not!.

IMO Worthy, will only buy 2 players at most. the rest, if any, will be Bosmans and free''s.

2 x players at 1.5 million each, equals 3 million.

Is that clear?.

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Wizard: You''re discounting my argument why exactly?

It wouldn''t be because my points raised throughout this thread destroy your entire argument, would it? Oh no, ''course not...

You haven''t actually challenged any of my points, on any level, instead pointing out that I used the word ''if'' a massive TWO times in one post...which was nice of you, though completely and utterly irrelevant.

Once again, is the reason why you can''t challenge the counterarguments made by myself, and many others in this thread (Clacton Canary, Andrew Nickerson, David T, Putney Canary, Yankee Canary) ...is the reason you cannot do this because your argument is totally flawed? Lacking logic, any sense of what''s really going on within the world of football...and completely devoid of evidence of a well thought out point?

I think we all know the answer...

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[quote]Wizard: You''re discounting my argument why exactly? It wouldn''t be because my points raised throughout this thread destroy your entire argument, would it? Oh no, ''course not... You haven''t actually ...[/quote]

If you''d just listen to yourself Campbell, that''s precisely why I don''t bother replying to your arguments.

Time and time again, you set yourself up as moderator, judge and hangman to other posters, who, in the past, have shown you up, or made you look silly (death threats indeed!).

I could (but I''m not childish enough) quote other posters who have agreed with me on this thread, or indeed many other threads, in an effort to back me up, or reinforce my arguement, as you just have!.

But, I go it alone, I always will. I don''t need other posters to back my arguments up!.

I still say we must spend big, and if you like, I''ll adjust that and say, spend it on at least two quality defenders, but I won''t budge any further though.

Its just that with you, the argument will be all one sided.

And guess what?, I can''t be bothered!.  

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Wiz that is clear now, you don''t expect each player brought in to cost £1.5m, you expect some to be frees. However I''m not sure though whether you think spending £3m on 2 class players and getting 4 other players on a free would be a good thing or not. I''m not at all clear any more on what point you are trying to make!

I would personally be delighted if we spent £3m in this way, but the main thing is that the 6 or so players we bring in are;

- better than the players going

- capable of playing at Premiership level

Do you agree with what I am saying?

If you are arguing that the 4 free players would be ''monkeys'' because we are paying ''peanuts'', I totally disagree with you for the reasons previously stated.

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[quote]Wiz that is clear now, you don''t expect each player brought in to cost £1.5m, you expect some to be frees. However I''m not sure though whether you think spending £3m on 2 class players and getting 4 o...[/quote]

And that''s you''re right to disagree Putney.

Personally, given a choice, I would love Damien and Greeno to stay (still might) but I''m doubtful on that!.

I agree with you that the phrase ''pay peanuts'' is unfair at times, and yes, you can pick up real quality bargains (Damo again) but in general terms, yes, I think the premise holds true.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one

But is this why Ashton is our best player maybe?.

We need at least two quality defenders, they IMO, will cost big money!.

Other than that, I can agree with all you say. Your polite and well put, reasonable argument was a refreshing joy to read mate.

See posters, wasn''t hard was it!.

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In these days you cannot conclude that a free transfer or Bosman signing is any less capable as a player than one commanding a fee. If I remember correctly Sol Campbell left Spurs on a Bosman and Ashley Cole may well do the same from Arsenal next summer

If a fee is payable then the size of that fee is some guide to the player''s ability, although some players can do very well at some clubs in certain styles of play and fail completely at a supposedly similar club.

What we need is two or three capable defenders who are proven upper Championship class and better than what we have at the moment, plus two midfielders- one holder in the Mick McGuire/Peter Mendham mode to replace Gary Holt who in my opinion looked to be suffering in our promotion season let alone this one just gone, and a playmaker in the Ian Crook mould. We probably need a right midfielder if Matt Jonsson is moved as cover up front for Leon and Deano.

We don''t necessarily need to spend BIG, but we do need to spend well, either on transfer fees or on wages and more probably a balance of both. I want players who are hungry to play for this club, who will come here with a view to a long term stay and who will be totally committed to our cause. These will be hard to find and a big transfer fee does not guarantee they will have those attributes (although it will help if they have those attributes and command a fee because they are b****y  good!!!)

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[quote]Andrew: Fair points, but I would counter that with the fact that Parkin is untried at Championship level, he would be a gamble. And I would expect him to choose the binners ahead of us anyway!. Why, ...[/quote]

Roundabout argument, though, wouldn''t you say?

"We need to spend big" is your point. Now, however, you''re saying, "sign Bosmans". So, we''re supposed to spend big, but sign Bosmans as well? I can see your reasoning, but you did say nothing about Bosmans in your previous posts.

Yes, Jarrett is a bosman. If we are to be believed, we''re also chasing Ritchie Partridge, who is also a bosman. Now, you have made it quite clear about your opinion of Mr Partridge. You''d rather not. So, you''d rather see us spend another £1.5mil on a right winger?

Then we need a right back. Maybe two. And Worthy''s chasing a striker. Bare minimum, four players.

£1.5mil x 4 = £6mil - Roughly the fee we spent on transfer fees last season.

I cannot think of two right backs, a right winger and a striker who are realistic signings, who would cost us £1.5mil. We simply do not need to spend this sort of money. Further, we do not have this sort of money to spend.

It''s all about being realistic. Realistically, we need six players in. Realistically, some of those are going to be bosmans, some of which are going to command a transfer fee. I''d love to see us splash the cash on great players, but it''s cash we really don''t have, and to be honest I can''t think of any single player in this division who could command such a fee. Ryan Taylor is rumoured to have a £1.2mil figure slapped on him, Kris Commons £700k, Sam Parkin £700k.

As for Sam Parkin, I think it''s fair to say that Ashton was untried at Premiership level when we bought him. Look at him now.

A strike record of 1 in 2 is very impressive, and anyone with that level of scoring is fully welcome by me!

Good argument

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[quote]Roundabout argument, though, wouldn''t you say? "We need to spend big" is your point. Now, however, you''re saying, "sign Bosmans". So, we''re supposed to spend big, but sign Bosmans as well? I can see ...[/quote]

For crying out loud Andrew!. I did not, repeat NOT advocate Bosmans, I clearly said I expect Worthy will go for Bosmans, there is a difference!.

Now you say I have a bad opinion of Partridge too. Jeez, I don''t remember that one either.

Maybe I''ve slagged off the Queen as well, who knows?.

Nor did I say spend 1.5 on 4 players, I said x 2.

By all means, have a go at me mate for something I''ve said, but don''t make it up, then blame me!.

I hear there are vacancies at Eastenders for scriptwriters, you''d do well there!.

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Having been away I have read this thread with growing amusement. 

My view remains that we have the nucleus of a squad that can push for automatic promotion now but lacks the strength in depth that would gives us all more confidence.  The key areas we MUST strengthen are

  • a new right back (2 if Thomas leaves)
  • a replacement for Sven (Jarvis MUST be given his chance & developed during the season BUT he is too inexperienced for NCFC to rely on should he be injured.
  • a back up midfield - competition & cover for Hux, Jonson Safri and Francis are needed (and the best news is that Jarrett is the first of these.

To compete in this league we do not need multi million £ players - you need a competitve nature in defence and midfield and flair up front.   We have the core players who, if they remain fit, can deliver us promotion - name a more threatening attacking side than our Hux and Ashton - there isnt one.

As I feel our first choice team is good enough why would I spend a fortune on a squad player?  Our squad is stronger now than our promotion ending side.  We got out of this league without £1.5m signing(s) relying on hard working team work and a side focussed on winning games and we can do so again.

Save our cash for buying premier class players when we need them, back in the prem, not in the fizzy pop league.

Besides any player worth over a million will have lower league prem sides sniffing around them - gabbidon, jagielka etc etc - and we would lose out in that sort of competition. 

 OTBC

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[quote]For crying out loud Andrew!. I did not, repeat NOT advocate Bosmans, I clearly said I expect Worthy will go for Bosmans, there is a difference!. Now you say I have a bad opinion of Partridge to...[/quote]

I''m sorry Wiz, I assumed you''d realise that my last argument was an attempt to drag us from your opinions (as accurate an opinion as yours is) to what we know.

Let''s recap. We know Worthy is chasing 6 people. We think of these 6, two targets are bosman signings, Ritchie Partridge and Jason Jarrett.

That reasonably means we can expect 4 people with fees attached.

Now, we return to your opinion. This means you expect the board to cough up £1.5mil for each of these four players? £6mil? That, for me, raises two primary questions;

  • Where do we get this £6mil from?
  • What do we spend it on?

For some, £6mil is not alot. For us, it''s alot of money. We did not spend £6mil in the Prem, let alone in the Championship!

We can''t afford £1.5mil for each player to take us up. Heck, I wouldn''t be suprised we even ended up spending that sort of money on all of our players.

Second, there is no need to spend that sort of money to take us up. Yes, I conceed, maybe spending the cash is a necessary task if we are to survive in the Prem, but we are not in the Prem, and we have no divine right to automatic promotion next season either. Thinking that way will lead to failure next season.

We can get quality players for this division at far lower prices than £1.5mil per person. Sam Parkin is a decent example of this, as cited previously.

My argument, which you have ignored, is that there is no need to spend this sort of money on quality players for this division.

Right now we know we need six players, only one of which is filled. It''s alright saying spend £1.5mil per player on two players, but how do you intend to fill the other three vacant positions (now that Jarrett is a certainty).

As for Ritchie Partridge, you started a whole thread against him. "Partridge??.....No thanks" quoting his record of 4 goals in 31 appearences as a reasoning to liken him to Mark Rivers. http://new.pinkun.com/forums/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=328&MessageID=194778. Perhaps your memory is failing you, as well as your powers of reason?

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[quote]I''m sorry Wiz, I assumed you''d realise that my last argument was an attempt to drag us from your opinions (as accurate an opinion as yours is) to what we know. Let''s recap. We know Worthy is chasing ...[/quote]

I concede the Partridge issue Andrew, you are of course right.

However, I clearly said 1.5 million on 2 (TWO) quality defenders, where did this damn 4 you keep banging on about come from.

But, NOT ONE of you have addressed my original argument, about building a squad which is capable of STAYING in the premiership!.

All of you latch on to one sentence you dislike , and then you ignore the rest of the post.

Until you can read it properly, we''ll be here all day, Four of you, one in particular, think its clever and amusing to ridicule me, well, I''m telling you now, its bloody hurtful at times!.

If that was your aim, well done.

And no, its not the same as me having a ''pop'' at players, because with some of you, its got personal, and that''s tragic!.

Still, onwards and upwards!.

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[quote]I concede the Partridge issue Andrew, you are of course right. However, I clearly said 1.5 million on 2 (TWO) quality defenders, where did this damn 4 you keep banging on about come from. But, NOT O...[/quote]

Noooo!!  Is the Wiz being held at sword point again by that darstardly pirate?

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[quote]I concede the Partridge issue Andrew, you are of course right. However, I clearly said 1.5 million on 2 (TWO) quality defenders, where did this damn 4 you keep banging on about come from. But, NOT O...[/quote]

Shiver me bulwarks!, tis bluster''s gone far enough, me hearties.

The wizard has been called away, and he won''t be returning in a hurry!.

But being wise, he''s asked me to take over at the helm. Yes, I know I''m more laid back than him, even boring some say!, but I''m not ready for Davy Jones locker just yet!.

I''ve far too much Pirating to do for that. But I must say I agree to some degree with him here.

Although I believe Worthy is the man to really be the best judge in this matter. After all, he knows for sure how much we have got to spend, yes?.

Confused? you will be!.  

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