Not worried about the results, the formation however.........

[Sim086 0]

As the tittle suggests, I am very concerned by the 451 formation we seem to be deploying, I think it was obvious to all, with all the midfielders we have signed that it was going that way. I dont want to watch us playing boring football, with one up top, Espcially at home, It is also obvious that Holt can not play up front by himself.

 

As said not worried about results, pre-season means sweet FA, however if we continue to play 451 i think we could be in for a long long season.

[Canaries Utd 0]

I agree, i think when we went toe to toe with a number of teams playing 4-4-2 last season we were on a par with many of them.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,752]

I can''t believe that all those people that were calling for this formation would still be after today?. The club historically does not like one striker, the fans don''t and I don''t believe the players do,most in particular as you say Holt.

Today was a useful excerise in showing Hughton how NOT to play but therefore a wasted 90 minutes. Surely we havent signed Snodgrass for him to play where he did today?, we may aswell play a second striker with Holt if we''re going to do that?. Where on earth is Vaughan ,he looked sharp throughout pre-season but has gone missing since half time vs Ajax?

It''s always been my worst nightmare that we would have a manager that favours a lone striker, particularly in home matches, yes Lambert did it on occasions but knew when to and when to mix it up, I sincerely hope Hughton will be as flexible and this isn''t his default preferred option as I fear many blank scoresheets next season.

[Stowmarket Canary (not Delia) 0]

Totally agree!!! Far too negative! It looks ok on paper but in reality it just doesn''t work, we need to play two out an out strikers for me. When we play one up top whether it be Holt or Morison we just don''t get the support up to join them quick enough, so they become isolated and we don''t score!

[Militant Canary 0]

Ah, yes. The average Brits rudimentary grasp of football tactics- in other words, a bizarre obsession with the formation.

Don''t be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling. Certainly don''t be afraid to think a little deeper.

Can''t be arsed to explain myself further.

[ricardo 7,395]

Hughton''s formations already look a lot less adventurous than those we saw from Lambert.We may concede less but we certainly won''t score as many this season. How that affects results remains to be seen.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,752]

[quote user="Militant Canary"]Ah, yes. The average Brits rudimentary grasp of football tactics- in other words, a bizarre obsession with the formation. Don''t be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling. Certainly don''t be afraid to think a little deeper. Can''t be arsed to explain myself further.[/quote]

for those that can''t see a direct corralation between formations and goals scored and results.......I won''t explain any further either.

[Sim086 0]

[quote user="Militant Canary"]Ah, yes. The average Brits rudimentary grasp of football tactics- in other words, a bizarre obsession with the formation. Don''t be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling. Certainly don''t be afraid to think a little deeper. Can''t be arsed to explain myself further.[/quote]

I will ignore your sarcasm, however you do have a point, but the problem is we tried this formation with Holt and Morison last year, it just seems we do not have ther personel to make use of this formation. Holt is by far the best striker we have, but he cannot play with out another forward. You play your best players, to there strengths, 451 does not play to are players

[Phillip J Fry 0]

The problem with our 4-4-1-1 (not 4-5-1 as many say) comes down to one player who doesn''t perform his role properly, and that is Grant Holt. Let me explain. This is not a post saying Holt is sh!t and should be dropped, this is not a post attacking Holt''s ability, what I am saying that Holt is not the right kind of striker for Hughton''s 4-4-1-1. When Hughton has previously played 4-4-1-1 he has had a striker who remained central and forced the opponents defence back, allowing space to open up for the midfielders and the all important ''1'' in behind the striker, who then has plenty of space to operate in, so he can surge forward with the ball into attacking areas or he can dictate play to the striker or wide midfielders. Holt is not this kind of striker. Holt thrives on his movement off the ball, he likes to move to areas where he is dangerous, whether that is dropping deeper or moving out wide, it doesn''t matter Holt doesn''t like to stay central and force the defence back, that''s why he works best with a strike partner who does remain central (i.e. Morison, Vaughan, Jackson). So, Hughton''s 4-4-1-1 could work, but Holt would not be a starter in it, rather Morison or Vaughan would start and Holt would remain on the bench and be an important game changer for Norwich.  

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,752]

[quote user="Gareth"]The problem with our 4-4-1-1 (not 4-5-1 as many say) comes down to one player who doesn''t perform his role properly, and that is Grant Holt. Let me explain. This is not a post saying Holt is sh!t and should be dropped, this is not a post attacking Holt''s ability, what I am saying that Holt is not the right kind of striker for Hughton''s 4-4-1-1. When Hughton has previously played 4-4-1-1 he has had a striker who remained central and forced the opponents defence back, allowing space to open up for the midfielders and the all important ''1'' in behind the striker, who then has plenty of space to operate in, so he can surge forward with the ball into attacking areas or he can dictate play to the striker or wide midfielders. Holt is not this kind of striker. Holt thrives on his movement off the ball, he likes to move to areas where he is dangerous, whether that is dropping deeper or moving out wide, it doesn''t matter Holt doesn''t like to stay central and force the defence back, that''s why he works best with a strike partner who does remain central (i.e. Morison, Vaughan, Jackson). So, Hughton''s 4-4-1-1 could work, but Holt would not be a starter in it, rather Morison or Vaughan would start and Holt would remain on the bench and be an important game changer for Norwich.  [/quote]

Is it not best to set our team up to play to our best strikers strengths rather than his weaknessness?, surely you cant be suggesting that after the ordeal we''ve been through with Holt this summer we should then leave him on the bench?!?

 

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]Is it not best to set our team up to play to our best strikers strengths rather than his weaknessness?, surely you cant be suggesting that after the ordeal we''ve been through with Holt this summer we should then leave him on the bench?!?[/quote]

No, I''m saying that if Hughton wants to continue playing a 4-4-1-1, then he has to drop Holt. Whether or not I agree with such a sentiment is rather pointless. 

[lake district canary 0]

I still think people are trying to read too much into what City are trying to do pre-season.   Whatever happened today - and I wasn''t there - it was a friendly.   The opportunity to concentrate on specific areas - defence for instance.   If you concentate on specifics, you are not treating it as a match. You are treating it like a "practice".   Practice is something you do to help you when you get to the real thing.   Judge them on the ulham game - not on this one.

 

[Sim086 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

I still think people are trying to read too much into what City are trying to do pre-season.   Whatever happened today - and I wasn''t there - it was a friendly.   The opportunity to concentrate on specific areas - defence for instance.   If you concentate on specifics, you are not treating it as a match. You are treating it like a "practice".   Practice is something you do to help you when you get to the real thing.   Judge them on the ulham game - not on this one.

 

[/quote] But when you practice, isnt that what you are doing, preparing for the real thing?? I will eat my hat if we don''t play 451 next week at Fulham, I really hope we don''t know as I am meeting two of my fulham mates there and can''t handle another beating there, espcially if we play negative 451 or 4411 what ever you want to call it, its rubbish

[Bill 1,788]

I understand your point LDC but there might be a counter view that with this being the last game we should be using it to pull together everything rather than still be tweaking things.

 

The crucial test will be whether Hughton has been able to maintain that winning mentality that the Lambert era had. Formations and quality of players count for little if they are not giving it their all ... and a bit on top of that.

 

There hasn''t really been any wholesale changes, bar what might be considered natural wastage. There have been no players sold to bigger clubs. Players who have came in look equal to what has gone out so there should be little reason or excuse not the continue where we left off in May.

 

We shall see come next Saturday

 

 

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

Yeah, have to admit today was flat.Really left feeling quite down and very disapointed.Still, pre season I will hold judgement until we have a few actual games under our feet.

[Katie Borkins 1]

It could well work if we had more mobility in the "1" up top, which makes me think Morison should get a chance ahead of Holt.  I am relatively happy with Howson, Snodgrass, Bennett and Pilkington (assuming Johnson provides the midfield bite and defensive duty, and Howson plays box to box which leaves Snodgrass free to roam behind the "1") but I am not sure Holt has the capability to carry the entire front line himself.  I am also worried that now he has the 3 year deal he was blackmailing us over, he will not show his best form.

 

[Bill 1,788]

"in the "1" up top"

 

not quite the expression you would expect from someone of your  supposed ''age'' - do try to keep in character

 

 

[Canary02 IV 0]

Our results and performances haven''t been against Premiership opposition and that''s what the formation is designed for. European sides like Ajax and Monchengladbach are far more adept at facing this formation whereas our lads are getting used to playing it together so it''s no surprise that we''ve lost and looked nervy.

I''m not a huge fan of the formation personally, but it can work really well and still be attacking and effective if well executed (I just think it''s rarely executed that well).

The point is that we won''t be able to judge how effective it is until it''s been played against Premiership opposition.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="City1st"]

"in the "1" up top"

 

not quite the expression you would expect from someone of your  supposed ''age'' - do try to keep in character

[/quote]

I''ve been talking about the "1" up top ever since I took up darts.  The 1 is next to the 20, in case you weren''t aware, and therein lies a poetic metaphor - that in striving too hard for the greatest prize, one might fail and achieve nothing.  Let''s hope Houghton doesn''t make the same mistake with his darts, and by that I mean players, tactics and formations.

 

[Bury Yellow 2]

Bor Bor Bor (oh another Bor just for good measure) I would just love it for you to tell Holt what you think of him to his face.

Frankly your comments about him on these threads today have been a disgrace.

Holty is a good darts player perhaps you could arrange a match with him. he would enjoy that.

Just saying like......

[KeelansGlove 0]

Obviously some teams play this formation succesfully but i have not seen Norwich do it with any of the people in our squad apart from once or twice.

Didnt work with Morison wouldn''t work for for Jackson or Vaughan

[Clint 221]

I''ve not seen all of pre-season but as far as I can see....Ignoring the Hertha game, which I didn''t see......(but we scored twice playing 2 up front, I think).....We played 2 up front against Celtic, looked pretty good and won.  We played 2 up front in the first half against Ajax, looked pretty good and drawing 1 all at half time.Since then, we''ve gone for Holt up front on his own and not looked like scoring, against some pretty average opposition.I''m all for keeping it tight at the back but in a league where there''s so much quality, the opposition could easily score at any point, I would try and take the game to them and score ourselves!

[Redders Right Foot 22]

I say we do it spain style. 4-6-0.

or we can do it chelsea''s way.

9-0-1

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Across_The_Pond_Yellow"]I say we do it spain style. 4-6-0. or we can do it chelsea''s way. 9-0-1[/quote]

I always wanted us to do it the Hollo way. Better to lose 3-4 than 0-1 IMO.