Should England even bother with Rooney?

[Syteanric 1]

this isnt a thread saying Rooney is a bad player, or that Holt or anyone else should be selected in his place.This is just my opinion on why England should perhaps leave Wayne at home.For a start - the facts... Wayne Rooney hasn''t scored at an international tournament since he scored vs Croatia in Euro 2004, qualification goals have come agains the likes of Serbia, Lichtenstein, Andorra etc and in friendlies... but when it comes to the crunch and England need him the most Wayne Rooney has been found lacking.go back over the years and England have always had a striker who has stepped up when it mattered the most. Shearer in 2000, Sheringham in 1996, Linekar and Beardsley in the early 90''s and Keegan before that... players who not only took their country to the big tournaments but gave them a dam good chance of winning it.then theres the strike partners... for arguements sake say Bobby Zamora is in the squad and comes good, he scores one against France to become the media darling, scores another against Sweden with Andy Carroll also netting in the game... only to be shoe horned out by Rooney because he is the "name" striker... The media will influence this decision... what message does that give to the rest of players that? that its a "thanks but no thanks" that they are there simply to do a job and be given short shrift?also, Rooneys suspension.... it could be all over by the time the Ukraine game rolls around with England playing for nothing more than pride... it would matter little if Rooney scored one goal or 10 goals if England were already out.Most on here will say he is the best player... he HAS to go..... he Might even come good... but Might isnt good enough for England.By the time the world cup rolls around it could be 12 years since Wayne Rooneys last tournament goal.. how many chances would rooney have got if the players above were in their prime?Thanks Wayne, stock up on the crisps and beers for the summer.... pity the England Management arent brave enough...

[Aggy 944]

Hmm. But we''ve not really had anyone scoring prolifically at tournaments either. Nobody is as good as Rooney.

"Might" isn''t good enough for England, but then you''d have to say "might" about every other one of England''s forwards. If Rooney is unlikely to come good, after being the top English scorer in the country this season, then why do you think others are more likely to come good?

If, to use your example, Zamora and Carroll both played and scored a few in the games that Rooney is suspended, then you can still start with Zamora and Carroll. But it''s nice to know that you''ve got a world class player like Rooney sitting on your bench.

I''d rather have him on the bench behind strikers who are scoring for fun, than sitting at home watching other strikers fail miserably.

[NWC 318]

Exactly.Couldn''t agree more.Ill disciplined in position, and the players around him aren''t good enough, so you mostly end up with no striker or anyone to fill the hole.But never mind, we''ll have stewart downing, lampost and gerrard bombing on................Jesus wept!![:^)]

[Jacko 0]

Thing is Jas if you don''t take Rooney who will end up going. Probably one of the usual suspects like Crouch or Defoe. To be honest those two aren''t going to get you deep into a tournament for me. Whereas Rooney potentially might. I would rather gamble on someone I know could potentially come good in a tournament situation despite his modest record so far than play it conservative with someone who I know isn''t good enough. But I agree with you if we hit form in the opening two games that is a different argument altogether. The unity and balance of the side should that happen cannot be jeopardised and he should be left on the bench.

[pete_norw 0]

I think by the time Rooney is able to play we will be all ready to come home we are in for a bashing, nothing more to add, except   I hope Ruddy don''t play it will shatter his confidence,

[GJP 79]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]
For a start - the facts... Wayne Rooney hasn''t scored at an international tournament since he scored vs Croatia in Euro 2004,  but when it comes to the crunch and England need him the most Wayne Rooney has been found lacking.
[/quote]

As usual it has been overlooked that Rooney has had fitness or injury problems going into tournaments and was never likely to be able to perform to anything like his best.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]
For a start - the facts... Wayne Rooney hasn''t scored at an international tournament since he scored vs Croatia in Euro 2004,  but when it comes to the crunch and England need him the most Wayne Rooney has been found lacking.
[/quote]

As usual it has been overlooked that Rooney has had fitness or injury problems going into tournaments and was never likely to be able to perform to anything like his best.

[/quote]

I dont think there''s any doubt that Rooney is one of our best strikers, however he has to be one of the most overated players i have ever seen. As a country we always have to champion someone, but i wouldnt see him anywhere near the top 10 players in the world, which we are pretty much always led to believe he is.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="NWC"]Exactly.Couldn''t agree more.Ill disciplined in position, and the players around him aren''t good enough, so you mostly end up with no striker or anyone to fill the hole.But never mind, we''ll have stewart downing, lampost and gerrard bombing on................Jesus wept!![:^)][/quote]I''d suggest that in terms of position there is very little between Wayne Rooney and Grant Holt, who is often found tackling back on the edge of his own penalty area.But where Holt has "a great work ethic", Rooney is "ill disciplined".  Okay.Downing is sh*t though.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Rooney owes England. The problem is he hasn''t got enough brains to realise it.**

 

** That penalty give awy in Russia. and this current banning to give but two examples.

 

The problem is, we need him. Unfortunately. There is no alternative. Unfortunately. We are likely to be even more crap without him. Unfortunately.

[NWC 318]

I take your point, but when Holt does that we have another striker and/or Wes playing so there is always forward options. England often try to play the 1/3 up front with the 2 wide guys getting forward, but they are normally so consumed with stopping the oposition full backs that it very rarely happens. I''m not saying that England have nobody like Wes either - its just they choose not to play with an out and out attacking midfielder (over cautious = boring to watch!).I have often said that the attacking midfielder with a free role should be played by Rooney. It would be the perfect position for his talent as it will allow him to get in the game more and stop his frustration, and also give the team attacking options if Rooney is tracking back tackling which he likes to do (admittedly often with varying results) when there is another striker on the pitch.yeah after all that, Downing is sh*t !!!

[Cambridgeyellow 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="NWC"]Exactly.
Couldn''t agree more.
Ill disciplined in position, and the players around him aren''t good enough, so you mostly end up with no striker or anyone to fill the hole.

But never mind, we''ll have stewart downing, lampost and gerrard bombing on................Jesus wept!![:^)]
[/quote]

I''d suggest that in terms of position there is very little between Wayne Rooney and Grant Holt, who is often found tackling back on the edge of his own penalty area.

But where Holt has "a great work ethic", Rooney is "ill disciplined".  Okay.

Downing is sh*t though.

[/quote]

Lol didnt Holt win the worst discipline again this year for fouls committed and didnt Rooney get just 1 yellow card all season. Rooney is the best player in England you would really take Holt instead of Rooney ?? And you are saying Hodgson should go lol Take Holt yes but in place of Rooney ? Messi rarely is seen in his own half he must be really s**t

[NWC 318]

[quote user="Cambridgeyellow"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="NWC"]Exactly.Couldn''t agree more.Ill disciplined in position, and the players around him aren''t good enough, so you mostly end up with no striker or anyone to fill the hole.But never mind, we''ll have stewart downing, lampost and gerrard bombing on................Jesus wept!![:^)][/quote]I''d suggest that in terms of position there is very little between Wayne Rooney and Grant Holt, who is often found tackling back on the edge of his own penalty area.But where Holt has "a great work ethic", Rooney is "ill disciplined".  Okay.Downing is sh*t though.[/quote]

Lol didnt Holt win the worst discipline again this year for fouls committed and didnt Rooney get just 1 yellow card all season. Rooney is the best player in England you would really take Holt instead of Rooney ?? And you are saying Hodgson should go lol Take Holt yes but in place of Rooney ? Messi rarely is seen in his own half he must be really s**t

[/quote]

Yes, discipline is just about yellow and red cards...............................And a football team is just about good players..................................

[Largey24 0]

Rooney and Hart are arguably our only top world class players...that''s why he is in the squad.

[Syteanric 1]

Wouldn''t a world class player be up to tournament standard?

[Firedawg 3]

Agree jas, surely strikers should be rated on goals scored and I reckon crouch is miles ahead of rooney on that one. A lot of it is media hype and people (thick people) believe what is written in the tabloids. More than one mate at work has said Holt has no finesse and is an '' old fashioned centre forward '' whatever that is. When I ask if they have ever seen him play they say '' well no but I read it in the sun '' says it all really. Morons. rooney will do nothing this tournament same as all the other guaranteed. What have we ever won with the old guard - F*ck all and sadly we never will.

[Indy 3,477]

Rooney is no doubt the most overraited English player ever!

Fantastic player for Man U, who have a team filled with quality players who can feed him  and create the space needed for Rooney to score.

In an England side which plays against week internatrional side again he looks good, but put him up against the best in the world internationally and the additional pressure of tournament football he''s never shown anything! He is not and never will be in the same bracket as Kaka, Messi, Ronaldo to name the best layers in the world.

Rooney has never changed a game, made the difference to drive the England side to win.

Being banned for the first two games and being available for the Ukrain only, should have made it easy for any manager to leave him at home!

Wellbeck is an utter joke call up, Carroll is questionable and I''m not one for calling for Holt to go, it''s a huge step up, but no doubt Holt should have been included as should have Crouch in the two warm up games, for no other reason that should Carroll pick up an injury at least the two player will still be match fit and focused.

The other point I would like to make is Roy''s reference to Ruddy being no.3 keeper, behind Green, REALLY, you must be joking, from my West Ham mate, said over Christmas Green was lucky there wasn''t another good keeper behind him, as his form was very poor.

Crouch for his scoring record and Carroll on his day is a handful with Theo and Chambers running the wings would have scared the **** out of most defeners, but what do I know!