A message of thanks to Norwich fans

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="paul moy"][quote user="iwansnorwich"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="iwansnorwich"][quote user="paul moy"]

[quote user="iwansnorwich"][quote user="Thirsty Lizard"]Branston - I really find it odd when people say that Man Utd "haven''t bought the title." David de Gea - £19 million, Rio Ferdinand £30 million, Wayne Rooney £27 million, Ashley Young £20 million, Michael Carrick £16 million, Chris Smalling £10 million, Antonio Valencia £16 million, Phil Jones £16 million, Dimitar Berbatov £30 million, Nani £15 million, plus the ''smaller'' fees of about £7 million paid for Evra, Vidic and Hernandez etc,etc. They "haven''t bought the title". Really???[/quote] But that money was earned by Manchester United through success. Much like we''ve signed Ryan Bennett in January through earning Premier League money through success of the club. Man City didn''t earn their money, they were handed it by some Arab Sheikh. Very odd post Thirsty Lizard.[/quote]

 

How they got the money is irrelevant, they still spent multi-millions buying their titles. To compare our purchasing Ryan Bennett for ''peanuts'' to buying Wayne Rooney for 26m or Rio Ferdinand for 30m is surely a joke.   

[/quote] Just because Bennett cost £3m and Ferdinand £30m is irrelevant. The principle is the same. What you''re saying is if we win the league next year we''ll have bought it, because our players cost transfer fees. Think about what you''re saying.[/quote]

Ah, so we are buying the title because we are signing players.  I think you''re missing the point somewhat.  

 

[/quote] I''ve missed the point? "Ah, so we are buying the title because we are signing players. " That is exactly what YOU claimed in reference to Man Utd. I gave the example of our squad because though it cost less, the cost is irrelevant here. If I''m missing the point please explain, but it looks to me like you''re out of your depth.[/quote]

Buying established world class players for world record transfer fees such as Rooney and Ferdinand to win titles is is effectively ''buying'' titles. I hardly would class Ryan Bennett as an established world class player, so yes, you are missing the point and by a very wide margin !!!!  

[/quote]Neither Rooney nor Ferdinand were "world record transfer fees".The only English world record transfer fee was Alan Shearer, from Newcastle to Blackburn.  I think you would probably agree that Blackburn Rovers bought a title in the 1990s, much as Man City are trying to do this year.   The reason I have respect for Man U, and want them to win the title, is that Ferguson signs players and then gets them to play in the Man Utd way as long term signings.  I couldn''t give a sh*t about Man City, they are a plastic team full of mercenaries (Tevez walked out on the club 6 months ago but is now back, how does that work?) and deserve to win f**k all.

[The Gruffalo 0]

Perhaps we should go back to playing in League 1 as we just bought our way out of it, perhaps that would make the jealous hypocritical lot amongst us NCFC fans happy?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]Perhaps we should go back to playing in League 1 as we just bought our way out of it, perhaps that would make the jealous hypocritical lot amongst us NCFC fans happy?[/quote]I''m not sure that Tudur-Jones, Gill, Whaley, McVeigh could really be described as "buying our way" out of League One.

[Show Me What You Gooot! 0]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]Perhaps we should go back to playing in League 1 as we just bought our way out of it, perhaps that would make the jealous hypocritical lot amongst us NCFC fans happy?[/quote]

 

We hardly bought our way out of league 1 in the equivalent manner that Man City and Chelsea have bought their rapid rise to success in the premiership/champions league.

[The Gruffalo 0]

We spent more than anyone that season, the only teams who came close to matching our spending were Leeds and Southampton.

We also spent more than most in the Championship last season and have spent more than all of the teams who will be relegated this season (unless QPR or Villa go down(.

There has always been a direct correlation between money spent and league position, with a few teams performing over and above the levels expected of them and a few teams unable to reach the levels expected of them each season.

I am surprised that any long term fan of NCFC is unable to realise this. It is not just a pattern which is prevelant in the Premier League, but throughout world football at every level almost to a varying degree.

[The Gruffalo 0]

I think the fans of Brentford, Walsall, Hartlepool, Wycombe, Yeovil , Carlisle, Colchester or even Huddersfield would have a slightly different opinion to you on that matter.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]I think the fans of Brentford, Walsall, Hartlepool, Wycombe, Yeovil , Carlisle, Colchester or even Huddersfield would have a slightly different opinion to you on that matter.[/quote]That''s fair enough, but I don''t give a sh*t what they think.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]

There has always been a direct correlation between money spent and league position, with a few teams performing over and above the levels expected of them and a few teams unable to reach the levels expected of them each season.[/quote]Evidence and sources please.

[Firedawg 3]

Oh please, Of course money talks and imagine ( God forbid ) Ipsh*t were like manure rubbing our noses in it year after year and then along came a rich benefactor and offered up millions of pounds to try and catch them up we would say '' No thanks we prefer to work our way up over the next twenty years, we don''t want a quick fix to catch ipsh*t '' ! Absolute joke and whilst I think chelski are taking the wrong route changing managers every two weeks i think if man city stick with mancini they will win in the next couple of years. Also success breeds success and if man city win it a couple of times then their fan base will grow worldwide.

[Buncey 1]

Gruffalo. You have mistaken money spent on transfers to wages. Wages and league position have a correlation. (For your information Mr. Chops, Stefan Szymanski.) Even still there were notable outliers in his research at the time (namely Man City and Newcastle).Another point that needs to be made is that Norwich had to improve a championship squad to a premierleague squad. Bolton, Wolves, Blackburn etc. did not have to make such investment. Despite this I''m still unconvinced we have significantly outspent them, Wolves for example spent some £8m on Roger Johnson and Jamie O''Hara alone this summer. A similar point must be made for our step from league 1 to the championship. It is too simplistic to point at transfer fees and just take the numbers and not explore the reasons underneath them.

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Paint Me Yellow"]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]Perhaps we should go back to playing in League 1 as we just bought our way out of it, perhaps that would make the jealous hypocritical lot amongst us NCFC fans happy?[/quote]

 

We hardly bought our way out of league 1 in the equivalent manner that Man City and Chelsea have bought their rapid rise to success in the premiership/champions league.

[/quote]

The principles the same if we spent way above the average that others had spent in that league in that same season. I''ve no problem with accepting that if that was the case. The fact is that Manure, Man City and Chelsea have been by far the major spenders in the Prem in recent years and Man City are the only ones that have failed so far out of the spendthrifts to ''buy'' the title. It won''t be long before they succeed though.

[The Gruffalo 0]

Have I really Fellas, so who spent more than us in League 1 then?How many teams spent more than us in the Championship last season and can you name them?

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]Have I really Fellas, so who spent more than us in League 1 then?How many teams spent more than us in the Championship last season and can you name them?[/quote]This is why you are such a lame poster.  You come out with a sweeping statement ("correlation between money spent and league position"), don''t back it up when asked to, and then when challenged on it you ask the challenger to prove you wrong rather than quote your sources/evidence which would prove you right.

[First Wazzock 902]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]Have I really Fellas, so who spent more than us in League 1 then?

How many teams spent more than us in the Championship last season and can you name them?
[/quote]

Thought you were supposed to be answering his question Bly, sorry Guff.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="The Gruffalo"]I think the fans of Brentford, Walsall, Hartlepool, Wycombe, Yeovil , Carlisle, Colchester or even Huddersfield would have a slightly different opinion to you on that matter.[/quote]That''s fair enough, but I don''t give a sh*t what they think.[/quote]I am sure that Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool and other sets of Premier League fans do not really care that Norwich City fans say that they have bought success either, as long as it is not done in some of the antagonistic ways which caused some minor trouble around the City after yesterdays match.Fair play to all of the other teams fans that many NCFC fans barracked in League 1, who could not compete with us financially yet still took the way that we bought success in that league in good faith.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

Wages is a far more reliable model than transfer fees Smudgallo. There is a correlation between wages and league position. I should imagine we had one of the highest if not the highest wage bills in league one.

 

 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="The Gruffalo"]I think the fans of Brentford, Walsall, Hartlepool, Wycombe, Yeovil , Carlisle, Colchester or even Huddersfield would have a slightly different opinion to you on that matter.[/quote]That''s fair enough, but I don''t give a sh*t what they think.[/quote]I am sure that Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool and other sets of Premier League fans do not really care that Norwich City fans say that they have bought success either, as long as it is not done in some of the antagonistic ways which caused some minor trouble around the City after yesterdays match.Fair play to all of the other teams fans that many NCFC fans barracked in League 1, who could not compete with us financially yet still took the way that we bought success in that league in good faith.[/quote]We spent lots of money in our League One season because we had about six players left after Munby/Doncaster/Roeder''s "smarter than the rest " policy raped our club and left us without a pot to p*ss in.  We were so bad, even the Doc got to stay.  You cannot compare signing Tudur-Jones, Gill, Whaley etc just to give us a half-decent squad of professional footballers to buying Nasri, Aguero, Tevez, Johnson, Toure, Kompany, Clichy for massive amounts of money.  Well, you can compare it, but it will make you look like a tool.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Wages is a far more reliable model than transfer fees Smudgallo. There is a correlation between wages and league position. I should imagine we had one of the highest if not the highest wage bills in league one.

 [/quote]

I would imagine that wage bill was in place from the start of the season.  Didn''t look like it on Day 1 though, did it?  Maybe there''s more to success than paying lots of money in wages.  Leeds United should know a bit about that.

[Buncey 1]

Shouldn''t have wasted my time. Mr. chops et. al you should look into soccernomics and winners and losers if the economics of football interest you.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="The Gruffalo"]Have I really Fellas, so who spent more than us in League 1 then?How many teams spent more than us in the Championship last season and can you name them?[/quote]This is why you are such a lame poster.  You come out with a sweeping statement ("correlation between money spent and league position"), don''t back it up when asked to, and then when challenged on it you ask the challenger to prove you wrong rather than quote your sources/evidence which would prove you right.[/quote]When I post evidence it is twisted to suit ones own agenda usually.If you asked nicely I would look for that link for you, but I am not researching and presenting the evdience for you. If you wish to prove what I say incorrect then you can provide evidence to say why it is incorrect.I will tell you that The Sun newspaper were way off beam with what they had to say about how much we had spent in yesterdays paper, as we have spent more on Ryan Bennett, Howson and Pilkington alone than what they gave us credit for.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="The Gruffalo"]Have I really Fellas, so who spent more than us in League 1 then?How many teams spent more than us in the Championship last season and can you name them?[/quote]This is why you are such a lame poster.  You come out with a sweeping statement ("correlation between money spent and league position"), don''t back it up when asked to, and then when challenged on it you ask the challenger to prove you wrong rather than quote your sources/evidence which would prove you right.[/quote]When I post evidence it is twisted to suit ones own agenda usually.If you asked nicely I would look for that link for you, but I am not researching and presenting the evdience for you. If you wish to prove what I say incorrect then you can provide evidence to say why it is incorrect.[/quote]That only works if I care about your opinion, which I don''t.  I''m happy to carry on believing you have a chip on your shoulder and are presenting opinion as fact, but feel free to prove me wrong by quoting your sources.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Wages is a far more reliable model than transfer fees Smudgallo. There is a correlation between wages and league position. I should imagine we had one of the highest if not the highest wage bills in league one.

 

 

[/quote]Yes and we also spent more in transfer fees than any team in League 1.The only teams close to matching us that season were Leeds and Southampton. No surprise to see that both of those teams have won promotion from that league and had an attempt at another promotion after that. Maybe Southampton will be successful with their attempt at back to back promotions, although I know you wouldn''t like that very much would you.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I was with you, Mr. Chops, right up to the moment you made a snide remark about ''The Doc.''

[nutty nigel 7,537]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

Wages is a far more reliable model than transfer fees Smudgallo. There is a correlation between wages and league position. I should imagine we had one of the highest if not the highest wage bills in league one.

 

 

[/quote]

Yes and we also spent more in transfer fees than any team in League 1.

The only teams close to matching us that season were Leeds and Southampton. No surprise to see that both of those teams have won promotion from that league and had an attempt at another promotion after that. Maybe Southampton will be successful with their attempt at back to back promotions, although I know you wouldn''t like that very much would you.
[/quote]

 

Wages is a far more reliable yardstick for league position than transfer fees Smudgallo. Fellas even gave you a link.

 

 

[The Gruffalo 0]

We spent approx £1.2 million on transfer fees during our season in League 1, approx £4.4 million last season and just over £13 million this season. Any doubters that we have not significantly invested in our playing squad to achieve success over other teams in League 1, Championship and bottom half of the Prem here is your link http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/norwich-city/transfers/verein_1123_2009.html you go ahead and research it in depth for yourselves.You may then see what hypocrites you are for being envious of teams buying success in the Premier League.Football success is dictated by money, even in the lower reaches of the football pyramid. Yes good management is also required, but without spending considerable money at whatever level you are at, then you will do extremely well to compete at the top of that league for any length of time.

[nutty nigel 7,537]

But which is the most reliable model for predicting leagues positions. Is it transfer fees or wages?

 

 

[The Gruffalo 0]

I still guess that we spent more than most teams in our promotion season from League 1. We had quite a few free transfers and undisclosed ones that year. Leeds may have possibly spent less than us, but Southampton and Huddersfield may have spent more.What is for sure is that the majority of that league are unable to compete with our finances if they are spent correctly.QPR and Middlesborough spent more than us in our season in the Championship. We spent more than Swansea both this season and last season, although they spent more than us while they were in the Championship and we were in League 1. We also spent more than Leeds, Cardiff and Reading during our Championship season and every other team with the exception of Leicester and Hull who spent a similar amount to us.Along with Swansea, we have this season spent more than WBA, Wigan and Wolves. Aston Villa and Blackburn have spent slightly more than us on transfer fees this season, but I feel that they are also worth a mention as they have actually made a significant profit on their transfer dealings this year, so it could be considered that both teams are not as strong as last season.So from this it appears that transfer expenditure does have a significant impact upon the success of a team and it possibly is just as big an impact on the likelihood of a teams chances of success as players wages might be.Now Mister Chops and Nutty Nigel, where is your evidence to pick holes in my theory?

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]We spent more than anyone that season [IN LEAGUE ONE] the only teams who came close to matching our spending were Leeds and Southampton.

[/quote]

 

Now I am getting very confused. We were supposedly on the brink of administration and yet outspent every other team in the division. Heck, if I didn''t know better I would say that seemed like hard evidence that someone like, say, for the sake of argument, our owners, had put millions of pounds into the club.[;)]

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

http://transferpriceindex.com/2011/01/comparing-econometric-models-of-the-english-premier-league-reconciling-the-tpi-and-soccernomics-data-sets-2/

 

[/quote]That link looks like a load of mumbo jumbo to me. Where is your evidence that players wages have more correlation with the success of a team than transfer fee expenditure does?I think that transfer fee expenditure, wages paid by a club and success go pretty much hand in hand.

[The Gruffalo 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="The Gruffalo"]We spent more than anyone that season [IN LEAGUE ONE] the only teams who came close to matching our spending were Leeds and Southampton.[/quote]

 

Now I am getting very confused. We were supposedly on the brink of administration and yet outspent every other team in the division. Heck, if I didn''t know better I would say that seemed like hard evidence that someone like, say, for the sake of argument, our owners, had put millions of pounds into the club.[;)]

[/quote]Yes they did, or at least Foulger did and so did many of of our fans.Are you trying to tell me that I am wrong and that we didn''t spend more than nearly every team in League 1 while we were in it?