Embarrassing Performance today

[Yobocop 1,105]

Took me a while to get that JF but I actually agree with you, I think when you say ''Man City flops'' you mean someone like Roque Santa Cruz don''t you?

But Man City despite all their team work and togetherness this season have had a ridiculous amount of money to spend whereas Norwich have done it on a relative shoe string!

[im spartacus canary 0]

i agree with the OP it was a poor effort... we never got off the bus , crofts offers nothing at this level , there was no outlet and if morrison did get the ball the nearest team mate was miles away if you are going to get beat it may as well be with all guns blazing than just sitting back waiting for our fate OTBC

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]

It''s Hobson''s Choice isn''t it. Play defence vs attack and lose one goal in a half or play more expansively and let in four goals in a half but get one back?

 

It isn''t that simple, of course. It''s one thing to defend but with no out options at all it just becomes a matter of time before you conceed.

 

If you consistently give the ball away when coming out of defence the result is the same.

 

If you defend too deep, ditto.

 

So, despite our work-rate and the superior opposition we gave ourselves too much to do defensively; we gave the ball away because we played two defensive midfielders who can only play it short; we dropped too deep; our goal-keeper failed to step up to the occasion and we made clangers.

 

This definately was NOT the best we can do; no where near.

 

I fail to see how Surman or Crofts gets in ahead of Fox and John Ruddy''s handling, decision making and especially his speed off the line are no where near Premier League standards. I remember a young goal-keeper many years ago playing a blinder at home to Newcastle and we won 2 - 1. I suggest Rudd be given his chance - he did alright against West Brom; he has character and confidence and he kicks better than Ruddy who needs to be dropped to recover himself.

 

I didn''t rate the performance against QPR and said the win shouldn''t be allowed to mask the poor play; we got away with it. To send a team out with no creative players and one up front shows a lack of confidence in the defence and just encourages the opposition.

 

I can see what Paul Lambert was trying to do today and even if we had lost 3 - 1 it would have looked a good result but we seriously need to freshen up that defence and ask more questions of the opposition.

 

Steve Morison was man of the match for Norwich and deserved a goal for all his hard work. The fact is, he has the lowest pass completion rate of any player in the Premier league which says more about his colleagues and the system than him.

[/quote]

 

---

 

Andy Marshall''s first full game after Gunn''s injury, I think, Rudolph. I was at that game, and it was an exceptional performance. And Marshall was indeed a fine shot-stopper. I remember a save from Dion Dublin in an FA Cup game at Coventry that was truly breathtaking. But - like Ruddy - a line keeper. A reaction keeper. And you have nailed down Ruddy''s deficiencies. Give him a shot to save and he is OK. But it is the thinking stuff that goes on before the shot that really matters - decision-making/judgment/positional sense. And there he is seriously lacking. And if he hasn''t got that crucial side of the game right by now, after nearly 200 first-team starts, I''m not sure he ever will.

 

Having said that, it would be a brave move to bring in Rudd. I know we are starting to get quite a long list of positions to fill/strengthen in January, but an experienced keeper always looked like a good idea, and seems even better now.

[JF 694]

Yeah Cruz or Jo or even players like Wright Phillips ect.

[Mister Chops 7]

We''ve conceded less than Man Utd did at Man City, less than Arsenal did at Man Utd and as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea.  I can live with that.

[First Wizard 0]

For the OP.

 

Predictable,  and only on the Pink Un responce, we still faired better than Manure .....get over it..

[Yobocop 1,105]

Just reading through a few other posts, I think there is one or two people on this message board who won''t be happy until we lose 9 or 10 nil because we''ve been too adventurous against a top top side..

Those who have a problem with our current position in the league (that is what counts at the end of the day) please reply in less than 300 characters as to how it could be any better...

[CantonsHero 0]

I''d much rather we played badly today that next week.

At the end of the day, today we ended up staying in the same place as last week (something which is likely to stay the same) and we dropped one point on the relegation zone. All after the hardest game of the season.

I''d take that!

[Hard Cell 0]

Rock the Boat....perfect name for a scummer and shit stirrer.  Got the reaction you wanted while your team continue their own good fortunes.Losing at Man City while scum lose at home to Watford.  Considering where our respective Boards, Management, Supporters, and Finances are I''ll take the defeat and look forward to the upcoming visit of Newcastle with optimism while your lot travel to a two thirds empty windswept Oakwell live for the Country to witness another example of your free flowing football.  Similar to that shown at London Road perhaps? 

[Alejandra 0]

the only embarrising thing ive noticed is how quickly the fans turn against their team on here, 1 loss against the best team in England and it''s all doom and gloom and relegation talk lol.

[Yobocop 1,105]

[quote user="Alejandra"]the only embarrising thing ive noticed is how quickly the fans turn against their team on here, 1 loss against the best team in England and it''s all doom and gloom and relegation talk lol.

[/quote]

couldn''t agree more, how did your boyfriend play today?? I honestly don''t know because I didn''t watch or listen to the game because of work!

[Alejandra 0]

[quote user="Give Peas a Chance "][quote user="Alejandra"]the only embarrising thing ive noticed is how quickly the fans turn against their team on here, 1 loss against the best team in England and it''s all doom and gloom and relegation talk lol.

[/quote]

couldn''t agree more, how did your boyfriend play today?? I honestly don''t know because I didn''t watch or listen to the game because of work![/quote]Ha, i wish [:$]

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]We''ve conceded less than Man Utd did at Man City, less than Arsenal did at Man Utd and as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea.  I can live with that.
[/quote]

Just for historical accuracy Chops, I think you meant to say as many as Chelsea did at home to Arsenal.

[Aggy 766]

The opening post is clearly a massive over-reaction, but I would probably agree with Rudolph a bit further along that there is a possibility that some of you are equally as far out the other way.

To be honest, I was hoping for anything less than 6-1 today. Got a Man Utd housemate, so I''ve still got that to fire back at him this evening.

It''s hard to pick apart today''s performance, because they are a side who can make anyone look like amateurs no their day. But yet again there were a few things that probably shouldn''t have happened - even against a side like Man City - that we can pick up on, and should be criticising. If we don''t pick up on those sorts of things, then we''re never going to sort them out and improve.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]We''ve conceded less than Man Utd did at Man City, less than Arsenal did at Man Utd and as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea.  I can live with that.[/quote]

Just for historical accuracy Chops, I think you meant to say as many as Chelsea did at home to Arsenal.

[/quote]Just for clarity, it was Chelsea 3 - Arsenal 5, so I think I meant to say what I said.  Thanks though. [Y]

[Buncey 1]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]We were going to get a thumping at some point.Chelsea 3 - 1 NCFCMan U 2 - 0 NCFCLiverpool 1 - 1 NCFCMan C 5 - 1 NCFCFrankly, I''d have taken that before the season started.[/quote]I would have taken that and furthermore, would have taken gleefully the performances, in 3 of those games we could well have taken all the points!To add to some of the other points.A team without Fox and Hoolahan is doomed from the start.Morison is completely isolated upfront on his own, and if any of the metrics that can examine team performance can agree on one thing then it the pass completion of your strikers is vital. Please help him out Lambert!I am reluctant to criticise Ruddy, we all knew we were getting a cheap and serviceable keeper when we got him. If you want quality you often have to pay for it (as we a saw today). Ruddy has his limits and we need to assess, very soon, whether those limits are good enough. I for one am most critical about his kicking of which he is nervous (and thus far too often is too deep to help the defence) and a frustrating inability to start our attacks. That said, get a "kicking" keeper at your peril (Vorm, De Gea). Today''s performance by Krul only helped highlight the gap in ability and the importance of a good keeper. Newcastle lasted until the final 10 in the Chelsea game, and unfortunately Ruddy did not do the same for us today.Finally let''s be clear, it is a sad fact to concede but Man City are in a completely different league to us. Not to mention the ludicrous sums of money they have spent on signing players, this is a club that recently released the information that they wrote off some £30million in players last year, only 4 times the money we were able to spend in total this season. We will get some beatings this season, but I am so thankful, that under Lambert, these are so few and far between and that they result in threads like this!!!

[smooth 114]

I agree with Canton... rather this week than next.

 

I''ll say it again, out of 10 games we would lose 9 of those against man city. Today could have been that one time, but wasn''t.

 

Personally I am not looking at the chelsea, arsenal, man u, man city, liverpool games as pivotal to our season. These are games that the players and lambert can test themselves. We all know Terry, Carragher will remember Holt for the return legs at carrow road. The games that matter are against every other team (maybe include tottenham in the list above, in fact I think they are the other team that could put a similar scoreline to todays out of all of them), hence next weekend against a newcastle team that I think have over-achieved and will have little blip is a key game ot get our performance right and we will change our tactics.

 

Todays result was littered with a few errors, the first goal we had men in the box and hoolahoops little cameo on the sideline when he did not need to do it all, Ruddy and the defence from a free kick. We have spoken about these errors and concentration needed many many times. With our team we will have these mistakes, we know January will come and I hope senior players can come in to a few positions. But we have a run against teams that on our day can get points regularly. Other results went our way today so that is fine.

 

Am I right, I heard Pardew mention that his centre halves were brought off against chelsea. Is this true? If so were they injuries that could help us by having both out of the line-up. For me I was not bothered today, we could compete and lose 3-1, today we were outclassed and 2 late goals flattered the score line, but we were outclassed by a team that could be in the top two domestic clubs in the world.

 

The game against newcastle is important and I feel they have done what I thought, become a little unstuck, trying to find their early form and wondering is that really the standard that they should set always, or are they no doubting that they just had a good start. Possibly two defenders injured, or maybe not, but if so then again problems for them next week.

 

Bring on next saturday. The team however do have to step up but again I would think we will have a different line up and a few different players. I think 2 upfront will start against newcastle.

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

It''s been clear for me, for ages we should play two up top. A lot of people were saying we should stick with 451 because its the system that got us wins. Sorry but I understand Lambert going with one up top for games against the big boys but at home against teams around us we should be starting two. It''s madness to think otherwise even at this level. We have to take the game to the other team. Holt and morison with Wes possibly pulling the strings just behind is enough to give any team a headache

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]We''ve conceded less than Man Utd did at Man City, less than Arsenal did at Man Utd and as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea.  I can live with that.
[/quote]

Just for historical accuracy Chops, I think you meant to say as many as Chelsea did at home to Arsenal.

[/quote]

Just for clarity, it was Chelsea 3 - Arsenal 5, so I think I meant to say what I said.  Thanks though. [Y]


[/quote]

 

Then what you said was incorrect. You indicated Norwich conceeded as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea. Arsenal only conceeded three at Chelsea. Just trying to help.

[YankeeCanary 0]

Just like my spelling of "conceeded" is also incorrect.

[Shack Attack 0]

[quote user="Bryangunnshairline"] Sorry but I understand Lambert going with one up top for games against the big boys but at home against teams around us we should be starting two. It''s madness to think otherwise even at this level. [/quote]Why is it ''madness'' to play one up front? 4-5-1 (or any variant of it) is not a defensive system in itself and it is the players you pick in that system that define how ambitious it is. There are problems in our team regardless of which system we play and what is clear is that although 4-5-1 removes some of the issues that affect us in  4-4-2 it also poses new problems. Neither system works well enough that the manager is confident enough to keep playing it on a regular basis but it would be madness to write off 4-5-1 as a means of winning points this season.

[Yellow Rages 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rages"]

I know you are not suppost to mention any negatives about our performances on this board but I do think that we did lay down and accept our fate a bit in the second half. Something we''ve not seen so far this season but deny it all you want, it did happen today. The gulf in class is obvious and something we can do nothing about but I''m sure Lambert will not be happy with the way we folded.

[/quote]

Right, just watched the game again on MOTD and sure enough just to confirm my initial thoughts, we gave in. Thought I''d have another look just incase I was caught up in the moment but no. Good example was Hoolihan strolling back after loosing the ball whilst TWO man city players ran past him for the 5th goal. Didn''t even bother to track either of them.

I know I''m not supposed to pick up on anything our players do wrong and I''m sure I''ll be told I''m,casting doom, saying we''ll get relegated, a fair weather fan, fickle and all the other gut reactive nonsence that comes out when someone dares pick up on an area we need to improve on but as sure as Petr Czech wears a gimp mask now, we gave in today. Face it, understand it, move on. OTBC.

[ZLF 275]

451 has worked far more effectively for us this season as we play a 4-2-3-1. today it was more a true 4-5-1 leaving morison isolated. 4-4-2 has not been good.

What is more madness is starting the game without our only players in the middle who can tackle and pass - Fox & Hoolahan. The game passes crofts by too often and the cross from fox for morisons was excellent. In too many games fox has more successful tackles than the supposed enforcers of croft or BJ.

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

[quote user="Shack Attack"][quote user="Bryangunnshairline"] Sorry but I understand Lambert going with one up top for games against the big boys but at home against teams around us we should be starting two. It''s madness to think otherwise even at this level. [/quote]Why is it ''madness'' to play one up front? 4-5-1 (or any variant of it) is not a defensive system in itself and it is the players you pick in that system that define how ambitious it is. There are problems in our team regardless of which system we play and what is clear is that although 4-5-1 removes some of the issues that affect us in  4-4-2 it also poses new problems. Neither system works well enough that the manager is confident enough to keep playing it on a regular basis but it would be madness to write off 4-5-1 as a means of winning points this season.[/quote]

[greenwichcanary 0]

Too be honest people critisising the team and accusing them of not turing up is ridiculous. They have spent god knows how much more on their team than us and sonsidering they have pretty much easily beaten every team that they have played at home this season so I wassnt expecting much.Although the team selection was slightly wrong, dont see why Fox diddnt play, can understand hoolahan maybe not playing as could give the ball away in dangerous positions, but I really diddnt see why Surman played, honestly had to remind myself he was actually playing a few times during the game, really diddnt do anything for me

[Bryangunnshairline 0]

I''m not shocked shackattack that you say that , your clearly a 451 fan or anti Holt.starter. 451 Morrison gets isolated. His first touch is not clever but his strength and head are top class.451 for us is negative does not work . We leave morison.isolated. Holt offers so much, as does Wes. at home we need hurt teams and go at them... Holt and morison would.be a nightmare to defend against . Me personally I''m a Holt fan yes but want the beat for city and Holt offers so.much. if he didn''t then.I would talking differently....

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Sir Humphrey Appleby"][quote user="cityangel"]

Out come the moaners, [:$]

[/quote]Sorry to correct you CA but he isn''t a moaner, he is a Binner! Seven wins on the bounce and they are still more concerned with us, amazing.[/quote]This.Look at the user name, look at the fact he only ever starts ridiculously controversial threads slating the team, it doesn''t take a genius to work out what he''s about.He''s about losing 7 games on the bounce, obviously!We did try to tell the scummers that Jewell loves a good spanking...

[Herb 0]

[quote user="Yellow Rages"][quote user="Yellow Rages"]

I know you are not suppost to mention any negatives about our performances on this board but I do think that we did lay down and accept our fate a bit in the second half. Something we''ve not seen so far this season but deny it all you want, it did happen today. The gulf in class is obvious and something we can do nothing about but I''m sure Lambert will not be happy with the way we folded.

[/quote]

Right, just watched the game again on MOTD and sure enough just to confirm my initial thoughts, we gave in. Thought I''d have another look just incase I was caught up in the moment but no. Good example was Hoolihan strolling back after loosing the ball whilst TWO man city players ran past him for the 5th goal. Didn''t even bother to track either of them.

I know I''m not supposed to pick up on anything our players do wrong and I''m sure I''ll be told I''m,casting doom, saying we''ll get relegated, a fair weather fan, fickle and all the other gut reactive nonsence that comes out when someone dares pick up on an area we need to improve on but as sure as Petr Czech wears a gimp mask now, we gave in today. Face it, understand it, move on. OTBC.

[/quote]Get a grip. A few minutes of highlights on MOTD does not sum up a game. 2 of the goals were mistakes. We were well beaten by a very good Man City side. What part of that are you having trouble coming to terms with?

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

[quote user="Herb"][quote user="Yellow Rages"][quote user="Yellow Rages"]

I know you are not suppost to mention any negatives about our performances on this board but I do think that we did lay down and accept our fate a bit in the second half. Something we''ve not seen so far this season but deny it all you want, it did happen today. The gulf in class is obvious and something we can do nothing about but I''m sure Lambert will not be happy with the way we folded.

[/quote]

Right, just watched the game again on MOTD and sure enough just to confirm my initial thoughts, we gave in. Thought I''d have another look just incase I was caught up in the moment but no. Good example was Hoolihan strolling back after loosing the ball whilst TWO man city players ran past him for the 5th goal. Didn''t even bother to track either of them.

I know I''m not supposed to pick up on anything our players do wrong and I''m sure I''ll be told I''m,casting doom, saying we''ll get relegated, a fair weather fan, fickle and all the other gut reactive nonsence that comes out when someone dares pick up on an area we need to improve on but as sure as Petr Czech wears a gimp mask now, we gave in today. Face it, understand it, move on. OTBC.

[/quote]

Get a grip. A few minutes of highlights on MOTD does not sum up a game. 2 of the goals were mistakes. We were well beaten by a very good Man City side. What part of that are you having trouble coming to terms with?
[/quote]

We''ve now played the traditional ''big five'' and of those we put in good performances against all except Man City. Even against Arsenal where the difference in class was obvious we put up a good show. Against United and Chelsea we gained plaudits from the press and commentators. The Liverpool game we battled fora well-deserved point. So this is how we have done against all those teams with money to burn. But on Saturday many of the players didn''t turn up. I can accept a 5-1 thumping if we put in a shift, but we didn''t and I doubt whether Lambert will be as accepting of that performance as some of the people on this board.

 

If it was a one-off then okay, weforget it and move on. But we''v seen below-par performances for several weeks now and that has to be considered a trend. It needs addressing quickly or we''re in for a long, hard winter. 

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="Mister Chops"]We''ve conceded less than Man Utd did at Man City, less than Arsenal did at Man Utd and as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea.  I can live with that.[/quote]

Just for historical accuracy Chops, I think you meant to say as many as Chelsea did at home to Arsenal.

[/quote]Just for clarity, it was Chelsea 3 - Arsenal 5, so I think I meant to say what I said.  Thanks though. [Y]

[/quote]

 

Then what you said was incorrect. You indicated Norwich conceeded as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea. Arsenal only conceeded three at Chelsea. Just trying to help.

[/quote]I''m sorry if you didn''t understand my original post.  Let me clarify what I meant.  The word you were failing to contextualise was "at", so I''ve simplified it for you.We''ve conceded less than Man Utd did at Man City - we conceded 5 at Etihad, they conceded 6Less than Arsenal did at Man Utd - we conceded 2 at Old Trafford, they conceded 8 and as many as Arsenal did at Chelsea - we conceded 3 at Stamford Bridge and so did they.

Trust this is now clear and we can move forwards together in comradely brotherhood with our red pens left to one side.