0 0 Posted August 30, 2010 Well I posted this in "other football" but 2 posters said I should post it in here as no one looks in there! Got it in email from FSF yesturday.A message from the Football Supporters Federation. The new coalition government has pledged to scrap unnecessary and “nannying” laws. We believe that the ban on standing at football grounds in the top two divisions is just this. In England and Wales, you can stand in rugby grounds, at Speedway events, at Horse racing events, even lower league football grounds. We don’t believe the top football clubs should be singled out and treated differently. If you agree you can now say so on the Governments new “Your Freedom” website, by visiting http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/cutting-business-and-third-sector-reg... Please support our motion and (especially important) add some brief comments. You need to register to do so, but it takes literally two minutes and would help our campaign massively. Bear in mind that for the first time we have a party in government (the Lib Dems) who support Safe Standing as official party policy, so the Your Freedom website gives us a great opportunity to press our case. If our motion becomes one of the most popular, then this greatly helps our aim to turn that support into government policy. We need YOUR support for this to happen. --- The FSF is an organisation run by fans for fans. We advise and represent supporters on a range of issues. You can find out more about us at: http://www.fsf.org.uk/about-the-fsf.php) and hopefully you will also decide to join us, completely free of charge, at http://www.fsf.org.uk/join.php) If you have any questions about this or anything to do with the Football Supporters Federation Safe Standing campaign please get in touch with chris.nash@fsf.org.uk or stuart.wood@fsf.org.uk – the campaign co-ordinators. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 30, 2010 If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boyo 0 Posted August 30, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"]If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it.[/quote]And neither can a lot of other clubs, which is why I''m out! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Walking Man 13 Posted August 30, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"]If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it.[/quote]It''s not about saying you have to have terracing back but more of givng the clubs the opportunity to decide for themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 30, 2010 [quote user="The Walking Man "][quote user="TIL 1010"] If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it.[/quote]It''s not about saying you have to have terracing back but more of givng the clubs the opportunity to decide for themselves. [/quote]I agree but the bottom line is the financial implications of it and no club could afford to do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Posted August 30, 2010 Tilly just because a club can''t afford it in a years time if the law is revoked doesn''t mean they can''t afford it in the future. It gives clubs the option.I would love to see a terraced Lower Barclay and go in there for games.Davo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 0 Posted August 30, 2010 [quote user="Davo"]Tilly just because a club can''t afford it in a years time if the law is revoked doesn''t mean they can''t afford it in the future. It gives clubs the option.I would love to see a terraced Lower Barclay and go in there for games.Davo[/quote]exactly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 30, 2010 [quote user="the king"][quote user="Davo"]Tilly just because a club can''t afford it in a years time if the law is revoked doesn''t mean they can''t afford it in the future. It gives clubs the option. I would love to see a terraced Lower Barclay and go in there for games. Davo[/quote]exactly.[/quote]I would also in an ideal world be happy to see the return of safe standing areas but guys it just is not going to happen unless you can see football sorting itself out financially.The only way it will happen will be when clubs move to new grounds and terracing is built from day one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Posted August 31, 2010 Agreed Tilly but surely that is no reason to oppose such a law? It''s not mandatory it just opens up options for clubs.Davo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Depraved 0 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="the king"][quote user="Davo"]Tilly just because a club can''t afford it in a years time if the law is revoked doesn''t mean they can''t afford it in the future. It gives clubs the option. I would love to see a terraced Lower Barclay and go in there for games. Davo[/quote]exactly.[/quote]I would also in an ideal world be happy to see the return of safe standing areas but guys it just is not going to happen unless you can see football sorting itself out financially.The only way it will happen will be when clubs move to new grounds and terracing is built from day one.[/quote]This is so Monty Python, they are wanting a vote on the "right" to have safe standing, not to actually enforce it. So get past the "No one can afford it" and think more of having the freedom of choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJJJ 0 Posted August 31, 2010 Brilliant idea if you ask me, finance permitting. Of course, money will be needed to take out the seats, install safe standing areas and barriers. But on the other hand, this will allow more people into the same space, and since terracing adds to the atmosphere I''d be willing to say more casual fans and those without season tickets would want to make more games for the added atmosphere. And since more people could occupy the same area, we may even see a reduction in ticket prices (hopefully!) and the club could still take in more cash. Many people have been discussing cheaper tickets too, so its good all round it seems.Then again, I know nothing about how much any of this would cost, or exactly how many more people could be fitted into a standing area rather than a seated one, so apologies if everything I''ve said is horribly wrong! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syteanric 1 Posted August 31, 2010 its been debated for years. if it hasnt happened by now i doubt it ever will Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzTattooedsean 0 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="JJJJ"]Brilliant idea if you ask me, finance permitting. Of course, money will be needed to take out the seats, install safe standing areas and barriers. But on the other hand, this will allow more people into the same space, and since terracing adds to the atmosphere I''d be willing to say more casual fans and those without season tickets would want to make more games for the added atmosphere. And since more people could occupy the same area, we may even see a reduction in ticket prices (hopefully!) and the club could still take in more cash. Many people have been discussing cheaper tickets too, so its good all round it seems.Then again, I know nothing about how much any of this would cost, or exactly how many more people could be fitted into a standing area rather than a seated one, so apologies if everything I''ve said is horribly wrong![/quote]It definitely helps with ticket costs in the Bundesliga. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="Davo"]Agreed Tilly but surely that is no reason to oppose such a law? It''s not mandatory it just opens up options for clubs. Davo[/quote]Davo where have i said i oppose it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davo 0 Posted August 31, 2010 Apologies Tilly. I got the impression that your were against the idea as a whole. I guess I misread what you said.Davo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="the king"][quote user="Davo"]Tilly just because a club can''t afford it in a years time if the law is revoked doesn''t mean they can''t afford it in the future. It gives clubs the option. I would love to see a terraced Lower Barclay and go in there for games. Davo[/quote]exactly.[/quote]I would also in an ideal world be happy to see the return of safe standing areas but guys it just is not going to happen unless you can see football sorting itself out financially.The only way it will happen will be when clubs move to new grounds and terracing is built from day one.[/quote]So I take it nCIsA won''t be promoting a "Seats Out" campaign anytime in the near future[:^)][:O][;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"] [quote user="the king"][quote user="Davo"]Tilly just because a club can''t afford it in a years time if the law is revoked doesn''t mean they can''t afford it in the future. It gives clubs the option. I would love to see a terraced Lower Barclay and go in there for games. Davo[/quote]exactly.[/quote]I would also in an ideal world be happy to see the return of safe standing areas but guys it just is not going to happen unless you can see football sorting itself out financially.The only way it will happen will be when clubs move to new grounds and terracing is built from day one.[/quote]So I take it nCIsA won''t be promoting a "Seats Out" campaign anytime in the near future[:^)][:O][;)]There you go yet again stirring the pot Nutty. Now for the umpteenth time TIL 1010 posts the views on here of John Tilson not NCISA.One day you will grasp that i am sure.Anything official from NCISA( which acts as a democracy) will be published on our website.I am sure your lapdog will be along shortly with his touch of sarcasm about NCISA. [/quote] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted August 31, 2010 Alright moody!! I was only sayin''! [:''(]So I take it Til 1010 won''t be promoting a seats out campaign anytime in the near future[:|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"]Now for the umpteenth time TIL 1010 posts the views on here of John Tilson not NCISA.[/quote]All of which begs the question......If your views are consistently at odds with those of NCISA, why are you involved with this organisation?[:^)]And who''s views are you expressing when the papers quote John Tilson, chairman of NCISA?[^o)][+o(][;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 4,350 Posted August 31, 2010 Plod-baiting aside, it''s difficult to see who could possibly object to this.It takes about a minute to register on the site and add your support. Please do it. Removal of terracing was a disaster for English football and there is a growing body of opinion in favour of bringing it back.The fact that there would be difficulties with it is no reason to oppose it outright. Come on Tilly and Boyo, get behind us.Here''s the link again. http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/cutting-business-and-third-sector-regulations/remove-requirement-for-top-level-football-grounds-to-be-all-seated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Now for the umpteenth time TIL 1010 posts the views on here of John Tilson not NCISA.[/quote]All of which begs the question......If your views are consistently at odds with those of NCISA, why are you involved with this organisation?[:^)]And who''s views are you expressing when the papers quote John Tilson, chairman of NCISA?[^o)][+o(][;)][/quote]When i am quoted in the papers i have consulted with my fellow officers of the committee so maybe i should give them a bell before i answer your posts.Sits back and wonders which one of the twins will answer first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="Robert N. LiM"]Plod-baiting aside, it''s difficult to see who could possibly object to this.It takes about a minute to register on the site and add your support. Please do it. Removal of terracing was a disaster for English football and there is a growing body of opinion in favour of bringing it back.The fact that there would be difficulties with it is no reason to oppose it outright. Come on Tilly and Boyo, get behind us.Here''s the link again. http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/cutting-business-and-third-sector-regulations/remove-requirement-for-top-level-football-grounds-to-be-all-seated[/quote]I tell you what Robert i will get behind it if you can get the two fence sitting numptys to give thier views first.The trouble will then be that if i go on the link as John Tilson Nutless and his Lapdog will see it as official NCISA policy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"]When i am quoted in the papers i have consulted with my fellow officers of the committee so maybe i should give them a bell before i answer your posts.[/quote]As you are the Top Cat in the organisation, which one is Officer Dibble?[^o)]I''m guessing it''s either Tangy or the Butler! [:D][;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="Robert N. LiM"] Plod-baiting aside, it''s difficult to see who could possibly object to this.It takes about a minute to register on the site and add your support. Please do it. Removal of terracing was a disaster for English football and there is a growing body of opinion in favour of bringing it back.The fact that there would be difficulties with it is no reason to oppose it outright. Come on Tilly and Boyo, get behind us.Here''s the link again. http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/cutting-business-and-third-sector-regulations/remove-requirement-for-top-level-football-grounds-to-be-all-seated[/quote]I tell you what Robert i will get behind it if you can get the two fence sitting numptys to give thier views first.The trouble will then be that if i go on the link as John Tilson Nutless and his Lapdog will see it as official NCISA policy.[/quote]You really don''t wanna go there Tilly old boy. The last poster to call me nutless has a yellow streak the size of your ego[:O]I was just ''avin'' a laugh! Typical that an out campaign that could get my support doesn''t interest Til 1010 or nCIsA [:|]But joking aside I don''t know where I stand (or sit) on this. I don''t think I''ve ever stood in a designated safe standing area. I have stood on terraces all over the country including Wembley but they were never designated as safe. I think to form a real opinion we''d have to stand in one wouldn''t we? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,535 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="TIL 1010"]When i am quoted in the papers i have consulted with my fellow officers of the committee so maybe i should give them a bell before i answer your posts.[/quote]As you are the Top Cat in the organisation, which one is Officer Dibble?[^o)]I''m guessing it''s either Tangy or the Butler! [:D][;)][/quote]That cat didn''t seem to mind being in a bin. Can''t understand what all the fuss was about last week...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Drinkell 50 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"]If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it.[/quote]Would the extra numbers in the ground, - assuming these would be the case - not cover these costs over the course of a season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,746 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="The Great Drinkell"][quote user="TIL 1010"] If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it.[/quote]Would the extra numbers in the ground, - assuming these would be the case - not cover these costs over the course of a season?[/quote]Just to pluck some figures from the air.........Rip out say 4,000 seats at £25 each a match and replace it with a safe standing area for 6,000 maybe at £15 a ticket so it looks like a loss per game of £10,000 to me.However someone will come up with another cofiguration i am sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I am a Banana 0 Posted August 31, 2010 [quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="The Great Drinkell"][quote user="TIL 1010"] If this law was revoked the question i ask is that with every club in the country up to its ears in debt where would the finance come from to replace seats with safe standing areas? It is not just a case of ripping out the seats so people can stand,it would require new deeper steps and the installation of barriers.It can be done and i am not saying for a minute that i would be against it but certainly from a selfish Norwich City perspective it is a non starter as we simply could not afford to do it.[/quote]Would the extra numbers in the ground, - assuming these would be the case - not cover these costs over the course of a season?[/quote]Just to pluck some figures from the air.........Rip out say 4,000 seats at £25 each a match and replace it with a safe standing area for 6,000 maybe at £15 a ticket so it looks like a loss per game of £10,000 to me.However someone will come up with another cofiguration i am sure.[/quote]Bet they wont as it is too late [;)]Maybe they would charge the same, then the club would MAKE money [y] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry 0 Posted September 1, 2010 I don''t see why certain areas of the ground can''t be designated as standing areas but you still pay for your seat and leave the seats in place, at Carrow Road we could easily have the Lower Barclay and Lower N&P as standing areas without affecting the view of people who want to sit and would probably create a better atmosphere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzTattooedsean 0 Posted September 1, 2010 [quote user="Harry"]I don''t see why certain areas of the ground can''t be designated as standing areas but you still pay for your seat and leave the seats in place, at Carrow Road we could easily have the Lower Barclay and Lower N&P as standing areas without affecting the view of people who want to sit and would probably create a better atmosphere.[/quote]they do that with the American MLS squad from Seattle who has as close to a European like atmosphere at their matches. The sections for the more "hardcore" supporters is well advertised that most, if not all, people will be standing so supporters that want to sit know not to get a ticket there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites