When will the Doc get full respect?

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]Very funny, Chops. You get my point. Morty, I didn''t ask how many wars you attended. Also, Morty, I didn''t mean to say YOU in particular put Doherty on a pedestal. I was speaking in generalities there, the editorial "you" so to speak. Today is the day to judge Doherty, this according to RuPhuck. Let''s hope he keeps up his good form. And HAW HAW to ManUre getting thumped![/quote]

Miracles do happen!

You did!!!

Mumbo jumbo for bollox!

 

[Houston Canary 0]

the gut, you simple minded browser! I asked morty how many wars he had FOUGHT IN, not attended. It appears he used the word "attended" to try to trick me but he only managed to trick you.

You then try to ride that crippled horse into your last point about bollox, but it fails because you cannot discount what I originally wrote with anything other than "mumbo jumbo".

This comment is 100% directed towards you, though, gut, so the "you" really means you.

What an pinhead!

[Houston Canary 0]

the gut, you simple minded browser! I asked morty how many wars he had FOUGHT IN, not attended. It appears he used the word "attended" to try to trick me but he only managed to trick you.

You then try to ride that crippled horse into your last point about bollox, but it fails because you cannot discount what I originally wrote with anything other than "mumbo jumbo".

This comment is 100% directed towards you, though, gut, so the "you" really means you.

What a pinhead!

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="I.S."]Oh give it a rest, you muppet.[/quote]Maybe you should start taking you''re own advice...[quote]Slate Doc if you want[/quote]Happy to[quote]I''ll repeat again, the game against Southampton was just like a repeat of last season. The centre backs got zero protection from a terrible pair of fullbacks, and a non-existent midfield, and were made to look stupid. From the front, through to the back today, nobody maintained possession. By all means pretend that the centre-backs are the root cause of the problem, but anyone who knows their salt will realise that you could have put Terry and Ferdinand in our defence today, and we would still have conceded at least two goals. We miss Drury massively IMO.[/quote]Dear god, you really do need to go to Specsavers.Neither Doherty or Nelson played well today (in fact we were crap in general), but Doherty at times was non-existent in his tackling and it wasn''t the full backs fault, for those not able to see the full game, the highlights on the Football League Show do nothing to further his cause as it clearly shows him being highly ineffective on a number of their attacks and regulalrly leaving men until too late, a prime example being their second goal - who was he marking????Nelson was arguably the worse of the two, but how Doherty can be defended for his shift today is beyond me.Also, it''s more difficult to give support from the midfield to the defence when you''ve just lost your holding midfielder and need to still be attacking for an equalizer to at least earn a point...The centre backs are not the only culprits, but to excuse their poor performance as being purely the fault of the midfield is laughable. Extra support or not, neither of our centre backs played well and were exposed for the highly limited players they are.I''m not even going to comment on your Terry and Ferdinand point, because it isn''t a point, and the mere suggestion is beyond laughable to a whole new level of insanity.The fact is that neither of our centre halves today are good enough for the Championship, which is why people want Askou and Whitbread to be put in. We''ve arguably not seen enough of either to judge correctly, and certainly not as a partnership, but from what I have seen, I''d take them every day over Doherty and Nelson.But hey, you keep blaming the midfield if you want - instead of accepting and realising the limitations Doherty and Nelson possess..

[morty 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]the gut, you simple minded browser! I asked morty how many wars he had FOUGHT IN, not attended. It appears he used the word "attended" to try to trick me but he only managed to trick you.

You then try to ride that crippled horse into your last point about bollox, but it fails because you cannot discount what I originally wrote with anything other than "mumbo jumbo".

This comment is 100% directed towards you, though, gut, so the "you" really means you.

What a pinhead![/quote]Ah right, so you meant actual hand to hand combat, well that wasn''t my job. I phrased it as attended for this reason but still have the medals to prove it.Oh, and you really are a bell-end by the way.Have a nice day.[:)]

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]
The fact is that neither of our centre halves today are good enough for the Championship,

But hey, you keep blaming the midfield if you want - instead of accepting and realising the limitations Doherty and Nelson possess..
[/quote]

Firstly - amusing use of the word "fact"

Secondly - if you can''t appreciate that our defence was over worked as a result of our midfield being outfought and dominated and that, in particular, our left side was exploited far too easily then your "facts" are even less worth taking any notice of.

I guess this is what my friend means when he says Norwich fans can be morons.

Lappin and Rose couldn''t cope with the attacks on their side of the pitch, our front 2 did stuff all from start to finish and never looked like scoring a goal and our vital holding midfielder was sent off....so...taking all of that into account... let''s pick out and blame the centrebacks (because we''ve got a vendetta against them).

[Beauseant 0]

I thought Doc was one of our better players yesterday.

[Dicky 0]

Houston, how many games have you seen The Doc play live? Be interested to know.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Dicky"]Houston, how many games have you seen The Doc play live? Be interested to know.[/quote]I have asked him that and mysteriously received no reply.[:)]

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Dicky"]Houston, how many games have you seen The Doc play live? Be interested to know.[/quote]I have asked him that and mysteriously received no reply.[:)][/quote]

Bet it''s less than a handful. Come on Houston, don''t shy away.... We all know this, and we all know you spout on about The Doc without having seen much of him, but come on let us know just how few times you have seen him LIVE.

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]the gut, you simple minded browser! I asked morty how many wars he had FOUGHT IN, not attended. It appears he used the word "attended" to try to trick me but he only managed to trick you. You then try to ride that crippled horse into your last point about bollox, but it fails because you cannot discount what I originally wrote with anything other than "mumbo jumbo". This comment is 100% directed towards you, though, gut, so the "you" really means you. What an pinhead![/quote]

I wasn''t tricked, I spotted the difference at the time (and guessed you''d use the literall difference to your advantage, I have noted your style) but consider it irrelevant in the context of having an opinion of war. Attending or fighting is a very fine line which enables those who have done either to have valid opinions. Not that it matters because it is only a ridiculous comparison that you have drawn on to validate you having an opinion on something you really haven''t been a part of. Another assumption on your part without little evidence.

I cannot discount anything you write Houston because most geniunely and sincerely I can hardly work out what the f u c k you are waffling on about. I find the vast majority of your arguments nothing more than twisted and exaggerated quotes shuffled into daft, inapplicable and confusing metaphors, which you have kindly provided a brief example of. In short best described to the common working man like myself as mumbo jumbo bollox.

If anything I have a bit of a fat head, smart arse.

 

 

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Have you ever posted about any other subject other than Doc? Your obsession is a little unhealthy I have to say.[/quote]

 

Doc and Nelson were very poor today, particularly in the first half, the score could  easily have been 5 nil. We looked disorganised at the back, the marking was awfull with the usual selection of poor clearances. We do not have a defence that would be effective in the Championship, we do give the opposition lots of chances and the fact we dont concede more is due the poor quality of the  finishing and not our own ability.

[/quote]Sounds to me like he may well not of done?TFIY seems to have a very good grasp of the current goings on at Carrow Road (well with regards to what is happening on the pitch anyhow) if his recent postings are anything to go by.So if TFIY suggests that the Doc did not have a good game then I would be inclined to believe him right now.[/quote]

Doherty didn''t play too bad he was mediocre which was on par with the best of our team. We were poor, very poor, Holt, C Martin, Lappin, R Martin, & Rose all anonymous and Nelson the worst performance (anyone hear Simon on canary call couldn''t understand why he was subbed, Neill explained and he still couldn''t uderstand). Lets be honest Smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear.

[/quote]Not at all, but TFIY seems to have a very good understanding on what would improve our starting 11 at the moment in my opinion.To be fair even you appear to be staring to notice that Lappin and Nelson''s performances have not been up to all that.TFIY has talked more sense than most on here with regards to team affairs recenlty in my opinion.  If he had of said the Doc played well then I would of believed that.  He has said that the Doc was poor yesterday and any facts that you can get from the TV and press reports seem to confirm that.  He gave away the freekick which led to Lambert''s freekick against the bar and did not pick up Barnard for Southampton''s first goal.  Then Llanna turned him inside out before clipping it off our post twice when Nelson was not even on the pitch.

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]The fact is that neither of our centre halves today are good enough for the Championship, But hey, you keep blaming the midfield if you want - instead of accepting and realising the limitations Doherty and Nelson possess..[/quote]

Firstly - amusing use of the word "fact"

Secondly - if you can''t appreciate that our defence was over worked as a result of our midfield being outfought and dominated and that, in particular, our left side was exploited far too easily then your "facts" are even less worth taking any notice of.

I guess this is what my friend means when he says Norwich fans can be morons.

Lappin and Rose couldn''t cope with the attacks on their side of the pitch, our front 2 did stuff all from start to finish and never looked like scoring a goal and our vital holding midfielder was sent off....so...taking all of that into account... let''s pick out and blame the centrebacks (because we''ve got a vendetta against them).

[/quote]How come our defence can never keep a clean sheet when they are over worked, despite having a fantastic young goalkeeper behind them???

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Have you ever posted about any other subject other than Doc? Your obsession is a little unhealthy I have to say.
[/quote]

 

Doc and Nelson were very poor today, particularly in the first half, the score could  easily have been 5 nil. We looked disorganised at the back, the marking was awfull with the usual selection of poor clearances. We do not have a defence that would be effective in the Championship, we do give the opposition lots of chances and the fact we dont concede more is due the poor quality of the  finishing and not our own ability.

[/quote]

Sounds to me like he may well not of done?

TFIY seems to have a very good grasp of the current goings on at Carrow Road (well with regards to what is happening on the pitch anyhow) if his recent postings are anything to go by.

So if TFIY suggests that the Doc did not have a good game then I would be inclined to believe him right now.
[/quote]

Doherty didn''t play too bad he was mediocre which was on par with the best of our team. We were poor, very poor, Holt, C Martin, Lappin, R Martin, & Rose all anonymous and Nelson the worst performance (anyone hear Simon on canary call couldn''t understand why he was subbed, Neill explained and he still couldn''t uderstand). Lets be honest Smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear.

[/quote]

Not at all, but TFIY seems to have a very good understanding on what would improve our starting 11 at the moment in my opinion.

To be fair even you appear to be staring to notice that Lappin and Nelson''s performances have not been up to all that.

TFIY has talked more sense than most on here with regards to team affairs recenlty in my opinion.  If he had of said the Doc played well then I would of believed that.  He has said that the Doc was poor yesterday and any facts that you can get from the TV and press reports seem to confirm that.  He gave away the freekick which led to Lambert''s freekick against the bar and did not pick up Barnard for Southampton''s first goal.  Then Llanna turned him inside out before clipping it off our post twice when Nelson was not even on the pitch.
[/quote]

To be fair even I may have been one of the first to notice or even predict it. Don''t confuse defending what I consider to be unreasonable criticism with not understanding a players ability and contribution. And what''s all this "not at all" nonsense. I''m not making an opinion on the accuracy of any of TFIY''s posts. Lets be honest smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear. Lets be honest smudger[;)]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Have you ever posted about any other subject other than Doc? Your obsession is a little unhealthy I have to say.[/quote]

 

Doc and Nelson were very poor today, particularly in the first half, the score could  easily have been 5 nil. We looked disorganised at the back, the marking was awfull with the usual selection of poor clearances. We do not have a defence that would be effective in the Championship, we do give the opposition lots of chances and the fact we dont concede more is due the poor quality of the  finishing and not our own ability.

[/quote]Sounds to me like he may well not of done?TFIY seems to have a very good grasp of the current goings on at Carrow Road (well with regards to what is happening on the pitch anyhow) if his recent postings are anything to go by.So if TFIY suggests that the Doc did not have a good game then I would be inclined to believe him right now.[/quote]

Doherty didn''t play too bad he was mediocre which was on par with the best of our team. We were poor, very poor, Holt, C Martin, Lappin, R Martin, & Rose all anonymous and Nelson the worst performance (anyone hear Simon on canary call couldn''t understand why he was subbed, Neill explained and he still couldn''t uderstand). Lets be honest Smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear.

[/quote]Not at all, but TFIY seems to have a very good understanding on what would improve our starting 11 at the moment in my opinion.To be fair even you appear to be staring to notice that Lappin and Nelson''s performances have not been up to all that.TFIY has talked more sense than most on here with regards to team affairs recenlty in my opinion.  If he had of said the Doc played well then I would of believed that.  He has said that the Doc was poor yesterday and any facts that you can get from the TV and press reports seem to confirm that.  He gave away the freekick which led to Lambert''s freekick against the bar and did not pick up Barnard for Southampton''s first goal.  Then Llanna turned him inside out before clipping it off our post twice when Nelson was not even on the pitch.[/quote]

To be fair even I may have been one of the first to notice or even predict it. Don''t confuse defending what I consider to be unreasonable criticism with not understanding a players ability and contribution. And what''s all this "not at all" nonsense. I''m not making an opinion on the accuracy of any of TFIY''s posts. Lets be honest smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear. Lets be honest smudger[;)]

[/quote]If you were "one of the first on here to notice or even predict it" then why are you so eager to stand in defence of any criticism aimed at the Doc?We have all admitted that he has done very well since Lambert dropped him earlier this season, but many of us feel that we have stronger centre-backs in the squad if we are able to get them fully fit.  We also feel that Doherty is not good enough for anything other than a team which will struggle in the Championship or a team in the 3rd tier.PS - do you believe that Doherty could of done better yesterday?  He certainly could on the first Southampton goal and somebody above seems to be suggesting that he could on their 2nd as well.  This is not to mention that Llanna was simply toying with him after we went down to 10 men.

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Smudger"][quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Have you ever posted about any other subject other than Doc? Your obsession is a little unhealthy I have to say.
[/quote]

 

Doc and Nelson were very poor today, particularly in the first half, the score could  easily have been 5 nil. We looked disorganised at the back, the marking was awfull with the usual selection of poor clearances. We do not have a defence that would be effective in the Championship, we do give the opposition lots of chances and the fact we dont concede more is due the poor quality of the  finishing and not our own ability.

[/quote]

Sounds to me like he may well not of done?

TFIY seems to have a very good grasp of the current goings on at Carrow Road (well with regards to what is happening on the pitch anyhow) if his recent postings are anything to go by.

So if TFIY suggests that the Doc did not have a good game then I would be inclined to believe him right now.
[/quote]

Doherty didn''t play too bad he was mediocre which was on par with the best of our team. We were poor, very poor, Holt, C Martin, Lappin, R Martin, & Rose all anonymous and Nelson the worst performance (anyone hear Simon on canary call couldn''t understand why he was subbed, Neill explained and he still couldn''t uderstand). Lets be honest Smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear.

[/quote]

Not at all, but TFIY seems to have a very good understanding on what would improve our starting 11 at the moment in my opinion.

To be fair even you appear to be staring to notice that Lappin and Nelson''s performances have not been up to all that.

TFIY has talked more sense than most on here with regards to team affairs recenlty in my opinion.  If he had of said the Doc played well then I would of believed that.  He has said that the Doc was poor yesterday and any facts that you can get from the TV and press reports seem to confirm that.  He gave away the freekick which led to Lambert''s freekick against the bar and did not pick up Barnard for Southampton''s first goal.  Then Llanna turned him inside out before clipping it off our post twice when Nelson was not even on the pitch.
[/quote]

To be fair even I may have been one of the first to notice or even predict it. Don''t confuse defending what I consider to be unreasonable criticism with not understanding a players ability and contribution. And what''s all this "not at all" nonsense. I''m not making an opinion on the accuracy of any of TFIY''s posts. Lets be honest smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear. Lets be honest smudger[;)]

[/quote]

If you were "one of the first on here to notice or even predict it" then why are you so eager to stand in defence of any criticism aimed at the Doc?

We have all admitted that he has done very well since Lambert dropped him earlier this season, but many of us feel that we have stronger centre-backs in the squad if we are able to get them fully fit.  We also feel that Doherty is not good enough for anything other than a team which will struggle in the Championship or a team in the 3rd tier.

PS - do you believe that Doherty could of done better yesterday?  He certainly could on the first Southampton goal and somebody above seems to be suggesting that he could on their 2nd as well.  This is not to mention that Llanna was simply toying with him after we went down to 10 men.
[/quote]

Whoah there smudger you''re mixing some statements there, my notice/predict comment was in reply to your previous post regarding Nelson and Lappin.

My defence of the Doc (and others) stems from the "unreasonable" criticism.

You will see from an earlier post I said something along the lines of Doherty was mediocre yesterday, you can assume that I think he could have done better. However, in my opinion, his peformance was in the top 5 of those playing for us yesterday.

 

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="The gut"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

[quote user="Graham Humphrey"]Have you ever posted about any other subject other than Doc? Your obsession is a little unhealthy I have to say.[/quote]

 

Doc and Nelson were very poor today, particularly in the first half, the score could  easily have been 5 nil. We looked disorganised at the back, the marking was awfull with the usual selection of poor clearances. We do not have a defence that would be effective in the Championship, we do give the opposition lots of chances and the fact we dont concede more is due the poor quality of the  finishing and not our own ability.

[/quote]Sounds to me like he may well not of done?TFIY seems to have a very good grasp of the current goings on at Carrow Road (well with regards to what is happening on the pitch anyhow) if his recent postings are anything to go by.So if TFIY suggests that the Doc did not have a good game then I would be inclined to believe him right now.[/quote]

Doherty didn''t play too bad he was mediocre which was on par with the best of our team. We were poor, very poor, Holt, C Martin, Lappin, R Martin, & Rose all anonymous and Nelson the worst performance (anyone hear Simon on canary call couldn''t understand why he was subbed, Neill explained and he still couldn''t uderstand). Lets be honest Smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear.

[/quote]Not at all, but TFIY seems to have a very good understanding on what would improve our starting 11 at the moment in my opinion.To be fair even you appear to be staring to notice that Lappin and Nelson''s performances have not been up to all that.TFIY has talked more sense than most on here with regards to team affairs recenlty in my opinion.  If he had of said the Doc played well then I would of believed that.  He has said that the Doc was poor yesterday and any facts that you can get from the TV and press reports seem to confirm that.  He gave away the freekick which led to Lambert''s freekick against the bar and did not pick up Barnard for Southampton''s first goal.  Then Llanna turned him inside out before clipping it off our post twice when Nelson was not even on the pitch.[/quote]

To be fair even I may have been one of the first to notice or even predict it. Don''t confuse defending what I consider to be unreasonable criticism with not understanding a players ability and contribution. And what''s all this "not at all" nonsense. I''m not making an opinion on the accuracy of any of TFIY''s posts. Lets be honest smudger you are always inclined to believe anyone who says something similar to what you want to hear. Lets be honest smudger[;)]

[/quote]If you were "one of the first on here to notice or even predict it" then why are you so eager to stand in defence of any criticism aimed at the Doc?We have all admitted that he has done very well since Lambert dropped him earlier this season, but many of us feel that we have stronger centre-backs in the squad if we are able to get them fully fit.  We also feel that Doherty is not good enough for anything other than a team which will struggle in the Championship or a team in the 3rd tier.PS - do you believe that Doherty could of done better yesterday?  He certainly could on the first Southampton goal and somebody above seems to be suggesting that he could on their 2nd as well.  This is not to mention that Llanna was simply toying with him after we went down to 10 men.[/quote]

Whoah there smudger you''re mixing some statements there, my notice/predict comment was in reply to your previous post regarding Nelson and Lappin.

My defence of the Doc (and others) stems from the "unreasonable" criticism.

You will see from an earlier post I said something along the lines of Doherty was mediocre yesterday, you can assume that I think he could have done better. However, in my opinion, his peformance was in the top 5 of those playing for us yesterday.

 

[/quote]

So a centre half who was at fault for the first goal and maybe the 2nd, before getting turned inside out by Llanna prior to him clipping it against our post twice had a mediocre game?If that is the case then I hope I never see him have a really poor game for us!Why do you feel that Nelson was much worse than him?  Yes by all accounts he put the ball in to the stands when unchallenged several times.  Not pretty I will admit, but first and foremost each of these players is a centre half and the most important aspect of their games is to keep the defence in position, make tackles and win things in the air.  Playing a bit of football comes second when playing in such a position surely?Nelson appears to of done the basics ok yesterday.  The goals yesterday came from other peoples errors.  Maybe you should change your campaign with regards to unfair criticism of Nelson???

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]



So a centre half who was at fault for the first goal and maybe the 2nd, before getting turned inside out by Llanna prior to him clipping it against our post twice had a mediocre game?

If that is the case then I hope I never see him have a really poor game for us!

Why do you feel that Nelson was much worse than him?  Yes by all accounts he put the ball in to the stands when unchallenged several times.  Not pretty I will admit, but first and foremost each of these players is a centre half and the most important aspect of their games is to keep the defence in position, make tackles and win things in the air.  Playing a bit of football comes second when playing in such a position surely?

Nelson appears to of done the basics ok yesterday.  The goals yesterday came from other peoples errors.  Maybe you should change your campaign with regards to unfair criticism of Nelson???
[/quote]

What the fark are you on smudger, are you looking for a fight? He may or may not be at fault for the first goal, I can''t say for certain at the moment, he wasn''t for the second. If he was at fault for the first it doesn''t mean he can''t have a mediocre game in the same way as if he''d have scored an goal he could still have gone on to play a great game. Nelson was worse because (and he wasn''t the only one, but was the worst) he gave away possession needlessly consistantly. I consider this to be one of the basics in any level of football the quality of which is relevant to the standard at which you play. I would say that the biggest contribution to our defeat yesterday was the amount of times we gave the ball away so cheaply. I think you will find smudger I have already defended the unfair criticism of Nelson previously and I believe it was from you. Now you be careful, you''ve started to display some Houstonisms and it''s spoiling the beauty and character of your arguments. 

[The gut 0]

[quote user="The gut"]

[quote user="Smudger"]



So a centre half who was at fault for the first goal and maybe the 2nd, before getting turned inside out by Llanna prior to him clipping it against our post twice had a mediocre game?

If that is the case then I hope I never see him have a really poor game for us!

Why do you feel that Nelson was much worse than him?  Yes by all accounts he put the ball in to the stands when unchallenged several times.  Not pretty I will admit, but first and foremost each of these players is a centre half and the most important aspect of their games is to keep the defence in position, make tackles and win things in the air.  Playing a bit of football comes second when playing in such a position surely?

Nelson appears to of done the basics ok yesterday.  The goals yesterday came from other peoples errors.  Maybe you should change your campaign with regards to unfair criticism of Nelson???
[/quote]

What the fark are you on smudger, are you looking for a fight? He may or may not be at fault for the first goal, I can''t say for certain at the moment, he wasn''t for the second. If he was at fault for the first it doesn''t mean he can''t have a mediocre game in the same way as if he''d have scored an own goal he could still have gone on to play a great game. Nelson was worse because (and he wasn''t the only one, but was the worst) he gave away possession needlessly consistantly. I consider this to be one of the basics in any level of football the quality of which is relevant to the standard at which you play. I would say that the biggest contribution to our defeat yesterday was the amount of times we gave the ball away so cheaply. I think you will find smudger I have already defended the unfair criticism of Nelson previously and I believe it was from you. Now you be careful, you''ve started to display some Houstonisms and it''s spoiling the beauty and character of your arguments. 

[/quote]

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="The gut"]

[quote user="Smudger"]So a centre half who was at fault for the first goal and maybe the 2nd, before getting turned inside out by Llanna prior to him clipping it against our post twice had a mediocre game?If that is the case then I hope I never see him have a really poor game for us!Why do you feel that Nelson was much worse than him?  Yes by all accounts he put the ball in to the stands when unchallenged several times.  Not pretty I will admit, but first and foremost each of these players is a centre half and the most important aspect of their games is to keep the defence in position, make tackles and win things in the air.  Playing a bit of football comes second when playing in such a position surely?Nelson appears to of done the basics ok yesterday.  The goals yesterday came from other peoples errors.  Maybe you should change your campaign with regards to unfair criticism of Nelson???[/quote]

What the fark are you on smudger, are you looking for a fight? He may or may not be at fault for the first goal, I can''t say for certain at the moment, he wasn''t for the second. If he was at fault for the first it doesn''t mean he can''t have a mediocre game in the same way as if he''d have scored an goal he could still have gone on to play a great game. Nelson was worse because (and he wasn''t the only one, but was the worst) he gave away possession needlessly consistantly. I consider this to be one of the basics in any level of football the quality of which is relevant to the standard at which you play. I would say that the biggest contribution to our defeat yesterday was the amount of times we gave the ball away so cheaply. I think you will find smudger I have already defended the unfair criticism of Nelson previously and I believe it was from you. Now you be careful, you''ve started to display some Houstonisms and it''s spoiling the beauty and character of your arguments. 

[/quote]lol... Just getting to explain your reasoning a little better.  I undertsand where you are coming from now!  [;)]I must say that I was unaware that the second goal was Doherty''s fault, but will take another look at it after a couple of posters have claimed that it may of been.  Doherty certainly made a couple of errors on the 1st goal however and Llanna certainly had some joy taking the mickey out of once we went to 3 at the back after Nelson''s was withdrawn from the action.I was not at the game so can''t comment anymore than that, but it seems that mdiocre is the best you could describe Doherty''s performance as on Saturday.  I see where you are coming from with the Nelson giving the ball away, but I think that it is a defenders job to defend first and foremost.  The way they bring the ball out of defence is also important and we all know that Nelson has much room for improvement in that department.It seems that many more people were knocking Nelson than Doherty yesterday though, with several suggesting that Doherty was in the running for man of the match.  From the limited evidence I have seen I would suggest this is being very kind to Doherty.I will check out the 2nd goal again.  If he is at fault for that one then I would go as far to say as he had a stinker and that is from just seeing the few minutes that they put on the Football League Show.

[Guest]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="I.S."]Oh give it a rest, you muppet.[/quote]Maybe you should start taking you''re own advice...[quote]Slate Doc if you want[/quote]Happy to[quote]I''ll repeat again, the game against Southampton was just like a repeat of last season. The centre backs got zero protection from a terrible pair of fullbacks, and a non-existent midfield, and were made to look stupid. From the front, through to the back today, nobody maintained possession. By all means pretend that the centre-backs are the root cause of the problem, but anyone who knows their salt will realise that you could have put Terry and Ferdinand in our defence today, and we would still have conceded at least two goals. We miss Drury massively IMO.[/quote]Dear god, you really do need to go to Specsavers.Neither Doherty or Nelson played well today (in fact we were crap in general), but Doherty at times was non-existent in his tackling and it wasn''t the full backs fault, for those not able to see the full game, the highlights on the Football League Show do nothing to further his cause as it clearly shows him being highly ineffective on a number of their attacks and regulalrly leaving men until too late, a prime example being their second goal - who was he marking????[/quote]Their second goal, once we were down to ten men and 3 defenders, and Southampton had hit us on the break you mean? And you''re going to judge him on this difficult situation and one match, as opposed to the numerous clean sheets he helped maintain in our massive unbeaten run? Still, I seem to recall you giving him adequate credit for this and not just popping up to have a moan once the defence (and the entire team) have had a poor game?[quote user="Indy Bones"]Nelson was arguably the worse of the two, but how Doherty can be defended for his shift today is beyond me.[/quote]Not sure who''s defending him, unless you mean me objecting to the fact that you think Doherty and Nelson were purely at fault for the result against the Saints? I don''t think anybody can say he played well that match; mediocre at best, but let''s keep things in perspective. We had been mostly solid for many matches (keeping 8+ clean sheets), up until Drury was injured in fact. If you honestly believe that replacing Doherty would have changed things on Saturday, then I think you are seriously blinkered with your irrational dislike of him. Let''s be honest, this has nothing to do with the team''s performance on Saturday, and everything to do with the fact you have a personal dislike of Doherty.[quote user="Indy Bones"]Also, it''s more difficult to give support from the midfield to the defence when you''ve just lost your holding midfielder and need to still be attacking for an equalizer to at least earn a point...[/quote]Yes, and it''s also more difficult for the back four to defend against a very good attack when they are suddenly a back three. Especially when your one remaining CB is being thrown forward to help try and get that equaliser, but still, I wouldn''t want you to have to be reasonable and rational, so just forget I mentioned that. But let''s not forget Doherty has scored several vital goals this season - take those out of the team and I don''t think we would even be top 2 at the moment.[quote user="Indy Bones"]The centre backs are not the only culprits, but to excuse their poor performance as being purely the fault of the midfield is laughable. Extra support or not, neither of our centre backs played well and were exposed for the highly limited players they are.I''m not even going to comment on your Terry and Ferdinand point, because it isn''t a point, and the mere suggestion is beyond laughable to a whole new level of insanity.[/quote]Good, I''m glad we agree that the centre backs were not entirely at fault. When did I say it was purely the fault of the midfield - are the full backs not also part of the defence? Did I not say that the entire team failed to maintain possession? Try reading the entire post before going off on another mindless tirade against Doc/Nelson - or perhaps it''s you who needs a quick trip to a well known opticians? I''m sure Nelson actually managed more shots on target all game than Holt, yet I don''t see you criticising him for an anonymous display. Nelson is a decent League One CB, Doherty is a decent Championship CB IMO - I''m certainly not denying or unaccepting of the fact that they have limitations as players, but so do the rest of our squad - that''s why we are a League One team. To single out those two after Saturday''s match is laughable and ignorant.[quote user="Indy Bones"]The fact is that neither of our centre halves today are good enough for the Championship, which is why people want Askou and Whitbread to be put in. We''ve arguably not seen enough of either to judge correctly, and certainly not as a partnership, but from what I have seen, I''d take them every day over Doherty and Nelson.But hey, you keep blaming the midfield if you want - instead of accepting and realising the limitations Doherty and Nelson possess..[/quote]I like Whitbread, and think he will be a good player for us now and in the Championship. I think the same about Doherty - both have played at that level before. However, all I have seen from Whitbread this season is some not particularly impressive cameos, one of which involved him somehow avoiding a sending off at his old club. He might well turn out to be a quality player, but I have seen more than enough from Doherty this season to realise he has been by far our best centre back, both defensively and offensively, and I would prefer to judge on performances rather than some ridiculous dislike of a player. If you would honestly take Whitbread over Doherty based on what you''ve seen of the both this season, then I think it''s not just your eyes that need testing.

[tom1902 0]

the question is

when will the `doc` get full respect

answer

when he starts putting in reliable performances every week.

when he starts playing well.

when he stops making every defender he plays with look as poor as him(to name Davenport, Shackell, Pearce, Murray,Nelson, Whitbread Stefanovic, Askou and Kennedy)

and finally when he stops making game changing mistakes(against colchester, sunderland, leeds, southampton, carlisle, and now southampton again) and all this is in a ```good season``` in division 3

so there you have it in my opinion- an opinion which i have a right to share `the doc` dose not get `full respect` because -for me -he has cost us far too much to receive it

[The gut 0]

[quote user="tom1902"]the question is when will the `doc` get full respect answer when he starts putting in reliable performances every week. when he starts playing well. when he stops making every defender he plays with look as poor as him(to name Davenport, Shackell, Pearce, Murray,Nelson, Whitbread Stefanovic, Askou and Kennedy) and finally when he stops making game changing mistakes(against colchester, sunderland, leeds, southampton, carlisle, and now southampton again) and all this is in a ```good season``` in division 3 so there you have it in my opinion- an opinion which i have a right to share `the doc` dose not get `full respect` because -for me -he has cost us far too much to receive it[/quote]

 

This is the best one yet! Whether I agree with the rest of the post or not is another matter, surely you can''t be blaming him for....... no, no you just can''t be serious. Even the biggest Doc haters that could ever exist can''t really believe this. I''ve read it about 8 times now looking for a hidden wink or something. Is Jeremy Beadle gonna jump out from behind the sofa to anyone who replies to this? Or has Smudger got his own wind up show now and he''s gonna appear with his new catchprase "I''ve never met him before, but I know him to be an accurate poster so I''m inclined to believe this comment". Please let it be smudger [;)]

[tom1902 0]

Are you saying that the name defenders are all bad then?

I belive that the doc is the common denominator in all of our recent defencive disasters

I agree this may be a tad harsh but it is an opinion shared by many.

If he starts to win me over I will publically apologise for my slating of one of our clubs longest serving players butcuntil he wins me over my opinion will not change.

[The gut 0]

Maybe I haven''t given this enough thought. You''ve made me think a little deeper tom........I''m pretty sure he was in the team when the recession started, maybe he''s got a lot more to answer for than I realised. Smudger come out come out wherever you are.

[tom1902 0]

I''m sorry are you changing the subject.

I''ve stated my arguement so it''s only right that you state yours, in defence of the doc I presume

might I add I don''t hate the guy I''m just not his biggest fan

[The gut 0]

[quote user="tom1902"]I''m sorry are you changing the subject. I''ve stated my arguement so it''s only right that you state yours, in defence of the doc I presume might I add I don''t hate the guy I''m just not his biggest fan[/quote]

I don''t want to be dismissive tom, but if you read the whole thread I think you''ll find my argument. I''m not changing the subject, I just can''t take that sentence I highlighted earlier seriously, has smudger sponsored you tonight? He''s not his biggest fan either. Safe to say tom I don''t agree with you but at least I can understand your argument( I know Houston is not involved) and I do respect your opinion.

[tom1902 0]

Thank you

and I respect yours

[Smudger 0]

Surprise, Surprise the Doc and Nelson F**K it up yet again!No surprise to see that the attack came down our left hand side too.I thought it was McNamee who couldn''t defend?  Well we seem to have been pretty solid down the right hand side going forwards and defending so far tonight!

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="Smudger"]Surprise, Surprise the Doc and Nelson F**K it up yet again!No surprise to see that the attack came down our left hand side too.I thought it was McNamee who couldn''t defend?  Well we seem to have been pretty solid down the right hand side going forwards and defending so far tonight![/quote]Im guessing your taking this off the radio and your not at the game right? (Not having a go, Ive got neither so havent got a clue whos had the better of the half, whos playing well etc)