When will the Doc get full respect?

[Yellowfuture 71]

[quote user="jammis"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

I''m surpised it''s only 7 years until he thinks we''ll be an established PL team, given the depths we''ve reached it could quite easily be a lot longer.

[/quote]

 

 

Established, what does that mean exactly?  

[The gut 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"][quote user="jammis"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

I''m surpised it''s only 7 years until he thinks we''ll be an established PL team, given the depths we''ve reached it could quite easily be a lot longer.

[/quote]

 

 

Established, what does that mean exactly?  

[/quote]

No wonder you''re not excited about the 7 year plan.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"][quote user="jammis"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

I''m surpised it''s only 7 years until he thinks we''ll be an established PL team, given the depths we''ve reached it could quite easily be a lot longer.

[/quote]

 

 

Established, what does that mean exactly?  

[/quote]

Does it matter?

The key part is Premier League.

I''d be happy with "Sh*t Premier League team"

[First Wizard 0]

At long, long last, Doc finally has my respect.

[The gut 0]

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"][quote user="jammis"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

I''m surpised it''s only 7 years until he thinks we''ll be an established PL team, given the depths we''ve reached it could quite easily be a lot longer.

[/quote]

 

 

Established, what does that mean exactly?  

[/quote]

Does it matter?

The key part is Premier League.

I''d be happy with "Sh*t Premier League team"

[/quote]

Yes

Not exactly

Dear o dear

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="jammis"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

Two years to get out of this league.  Two years to get out of the Championship

Two years to consolidate in the Premiership

And in year 7 we are serious competitors at the top level.

If you are not excited by that then you really are even less aware of the realities of this club and football.

It will take time to build a sustainable Prem team.  Any body with a passing acquaintance with the real world knows that.  There is no point getting promoted to come down again.  We did that and it stinks. 

The only way for this club to progress is securely and with consolidation.

Get real for God''s sake

[/quote]

Well if they can''t get us out of this Mickey Mouse League at the first attempt how long do you think they will get next season considering that most of our best players will be off during the summer?

It''s you who needs a reality check... we have something good going for us as a club at the moment... in football and life you need to grab such chances with both hands, unless of course you are one of the lucky few who are spoilt with untold riches and get pretty much everything their own way.

The moment this club tsarts moving in the worng direction again Lambert will proabably get a better offer and we will be scratching around for a few years trying to find somebody to fill his boots.  I wonder if McNally has facillitated this in to his 7 year plan already or if he feels that the club will keep to it''s current rate of progress so far and keep all onboard happy?

[/quote]

These are maximum time limits Smudger, of course we should be out of this league in less than two years, as McNally and the rest of the board hope. And it is looking likely it''ll happen.Which would mean two years in the Championship before hopefully making the step up to the PL.

Stop being argumentative for the sake of it, realise where we are and how long it''ll take to get to where we want to be.

Do you honestly think three years to PL football is really that long? It sounds sensible to me.

[/quote]You don''t say?  I would really be pissing my pants if they were minimum time limits! [:P]Why doesn''t McNally just give us what he sees as the best case scenario and what he believes we can achieve instead of this nonsense?  There really is no need to worry about the restless natives in Norfolk Mr McNally!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="jammis"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="CambridgeCanary"][quote user="Smudger"][quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I`m impressed with McNally but cant really get too excited about a Seven Year plan!

[/quote]

Same here... sorry but if takes 7 years for McNally to establish us in the Premiership then that does nothing to excite me about his credentials to lead us there!

I expect a club of our size to be challenging for a play-off spot next season in the Championship if promoted.  A top half finish with a serious promotion push the following year at the very least.

[/quote]

Two years to get out of this league.  Two years to get out of the Championship

Two years to consolidate in the Premiership

And in year 7 we are serious competitors at the top level.

If you are not excited by that then you really are even less aware of the realities of this club and football.

It will take time to build a sustainable Prem team.  Any body with a passing acquaintance with the real world knows that.  There is no point getting promoted to come down again.  We did that and it stinks. 

The only way for this club to progress is securely and with consolidation.

Get real for God''s sake

[/quote]

Well if they can''t get us out of this Mickey Mouse League at the first attempt how long do you think they will get next season considering that most of our best players will be off during the summer?

It''s you who needs a reality check... we have something good going for us as a club at the moment... in football and life you need to grab such chances with both hands, unless of course you are one of the lucky few who are spoilt with untold riches and get pretty much everything their own way.

The moment this club tsarts moving in the worng direction again Lambert will proabably get a better offer and we will be scratching around for a few years trying to find somebody to fill his boots.  I wonder if McNally has facillitated this in to his 7 year plan already or if he feels that the club will keep to it''s current rate of progress so far and keep all onboard happy?

[/quote]

These are maximum time limits Smudger, of course we should be out of this league in less than two years, as McNally and the rest of the board hope. And it is looking likely it''ll happen.Which would mean two years in the Championship before hopefully making the step up to the PL.

Stop being argumentative for the sake of it, realise where we are and how long it''ll take to get to where we want to be.

Do you honestly think three years to PL football is really that long? It sounds sensible to me.

[/quote]So which is it then?  3 years, 7 years or even longer?Is it the word ESTABLISHED that you are struggling with?What is an established Premier League Club?  One that has stayed up for one season, two seasons, three seasons?I am afraid that McNally has taken a leaf out of Doomy''s book which he borrowed from Gordon Brown on this one!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I think the two years to get out of this league is misleading.

In reality we HAD to do it in one or face a meltdown, especially in losing the players able to save us from years of mediocrity.

[grantroederdisaster 0]

I think he probably never will with some but theirs is still a lot of fans who have the correct opinin of the Doc which is that hes been one of our best in recent years!

Over 200 games most of which have been good games!

Cost £750,000 so has been good value for money so owes us nowt!

One of only a handful of players from last seasons shower of sh*te that can hold their head up high and say they were worth their team place and performed well!

Every manager from Worthy up to Lambert have picked him regularly more than not so that gives some indication of what professionals think of him!

The facts add up to what I say about the Doc and those who say the Docs no good haven''t got a clue!

[Houston Canary 0]

Where were the other teams when he was available during contract hold outs and earlier this season when Lambert told him he was free to go? Did they miss something about what a magnificent affect he has on teams, too?

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]Where were the other teams when he was available during contract hold outs and earlier this season when Lambert told him he was free to go? Did they miss something about what a magnificent affect he has on teams, too?[/quote]

Houston - out of curiosity, what is your vendetta against The Doc based on exactly? How many times have you seen him live this season? Not on edited highlights, but live? Be interested in your answer, as I am sure you are not gonna live up to the typical stereotype of the kind of American that is an expert on overseas matters that they have no experience of....

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I think the problem people like Houston have is that they see mainly goal highlights as opposed to general play where defenders do good work.

When you see us conceed you will see Doc and others looking upset and therefore gain a certain impression of these players and often it is not their individual error.

As for Doc moving on it takes three elements to make a move and maybe he is happy in Norfolk.

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Dicky"][quote user="Houston Canary"]Where were the other teams when he was available during contract hold outs and earlier this season when Lambert told him he was free to go? Did they miss something about what a magnificent affect he has on teams, too?[/quote] Houston - out of curiosity, what is your vendetta against The Doc based on exactly? How many times have you seen him live this season? Not on edited highlights, but live? Be interested in your answer, as I am sure you are not gonna live up to the typical stereotype of the kind of American that is an expert on overseas matters that they have no experience of....[/quote]

Dicky, [8]You don''t know what you''re doin[8]

[Houston Canary 0]

I''ve seen Doherty play lots of times live on TV and a few times at Carrow Road. You don''t have to watch him 200 times to form a legitimate opinion of him. I also read game reports and comments by people.

I have no vendetta against him, but I find it curious how NCFC fans or a certain mindset always seem to glom onto one not-very-good player and treat him like he is a god while being overly critical of the few real stars we have. I have been fascinated,amused and confused by this loser mentality. Have you read the comments in this and other threads about how he is awesome, covering for a crap midfield while surrounded by crap defenders for the last several years?

I find it odd nobody else seems amazed that the only managers in England who rate him were all NCFC managers. What an amazing coinkydink. He''s had contract hold outs and was told by Lambert to find a new home, and yet here he still is. Are all the other managers in the country fools? They could have had him for nothing!

He''s having a good year, post benching, but he is not "all that".

Oh, and seeing people get so bent out of shape about comments that suggest he is not the best ever is kind of amusing, especially when they keep avoiding the issues other people bring up about his affect on the team, his inability to turn against speed, and the lack of interest in him from other teams when he is available.

I''ve only seen 1 game this year, the pounding we got to bounce us out of the League Cup, but I do know he is playing well since returning to the team. Why don''t you attack me for that last statement?

[Graham Humphrey 13]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I have no vendetta against him, but I find it curious how NCFC fans or a certain mindset always seem to glom onto one not-very-good player and treat him like he is a god while being overly critical of the few real stars we have... have you read the comments in this and other threads about how he is awesome[/quote]If any of this was actually true then I might find it curious too.

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I''ve seen Doherty play lots of times live on TV and a few times at Carrow Road. You don''t have to watch him 200 times to form a legitimate opinion of him. I also read game reports and comments by people. I have no vendetta against him, but I find it curious how NCFC fans or a certain mindset always seem to glom onto one not-very-good player and treat him like he is a god while being overly critical of the few real stars we have. I have been fascinated,amused and confused by this loser mentality. Have you read the comments in this and other threads about how he is awesome, covering for a crap midfield while surrounded by crap defenders for the last several years? I find it odd nobody else seems amazed that the only managers in England who rate him were all NCFC managers. What an amazing coinkydink. He''s had contract hold outs and was told by Lambert to find a new home, and yet here he still is. Are all the other managers in the country fools? They could have had him for nothing! He''s having a good year, post benching, but he is not "all that". Oh, and seeing people get so bent out of shape about comments that suggest he is not the best ever is kind of amusing, especially when they keep avoiding the issues other people bring up about his affect on the team, his inability to turn against speed, and the lack of interest in him from other teams when he is available. I''ve only seen 1 game this year, the pounding we got to bounce us out of the League Cup, but I do know he is playing well since returning to the team. Why don''t you attack me for that last statement?[/quote]

So, you have seen him ONCE this year and that wasn''t even live (where you get to see a lot more of the off the ball contributions players make) and yet you feel able to slate him time and time again.  Objective criticism or vendetta, know what I think.

[Canary Man of Kent 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]I''ve seen Doherty play lots of times live on TV and a few times at Carrow Road. You don''t have to watch him 200 times to form a legitimate opinion of him. I also read game reports and comments by people. I have no vendetta against him, but I find it curious how NCFC fans or a certain mindset always seem to glom onto one not-very-good player and treat him like he is a god while being overly critical of the few real stars we have. I have been fascinated,amused and confused by this loser mentality. Have you read the comments in this and other threads about how he is awesome, covering for a crap midfield while surrounded by crap defenders for the last several years? I find it odd nobody else seems amazed that the only managers in England who rate him were all NCFC managers. What an amazing coinkydink. He''s had contract hold outs and was told by Lambert to find a new home, and yet here he still is. Are all the other managers in the country fools? They could have had him for nothing! He''s having a good year, post benching, but he is not "all that". Oh, and seeing people get so bent out of shape about comments that suggest he is not the best ever is kind of amusing, especially when they keep avoiding the issues other people bring up about his affect on the team, his inability to turn against speed, and the lack of interest in him from other teams when he is available. I''ve only seen 1 game this year, the pounding we got to bounce us out of the League Cup, but I do know he is playing well since returning to the team. Why don''t you attack me for that last statement?[/quote]

Pot.....Kettle?

[Houston Canary 0]

Pot kettle? Huh???

Once again, he has been available a few times since he got here and NOBODY PICKED HIM UP. Are there only 4 managers in England who think he is worth having on the team, and all of them managed for Norwich?

Lambert didn''t want him, Roeder told him to sign by June 30 or pizz off. During that time, where were the other teams you all think he could play for?

I''ve said he''s playing well this year and I base that mostly on what I read from fans and reporters. If you think I can only have a worthywhile opinion of him by watching 200 games, then you need to ignore almost everyone else who writes about how he is the glue that holds the team together, how he covered for a lousy midfield and defense by doing 8 jobs at once while they all stumbled around lost and confused.

Why didn''t Leeds or Charlton or Blackpool or Liverpool sign him when he was available? he''s just not THAT good.

[morty 0]

Lol, I like how you reply to the posts that you feel you can answer, and ignore others.Anyhoo, the prize for the most dull thread that has gone full circle and still not established any facts goes to...........

[Canary Man of Kent 0]

I''m saying that I think the following statement, "I find it curious how NCFC fans or a certain mindset always seem to glom onto one not-very-good player and treat him like he is a god while being overly critical of the few real stars we have" to be a little bit hypocritical.

You''re yet to really back up your arguments with examples which give credence to your claims, it seems to simply be a case of you making your mind up on him and not being swayed at all by the fact that he''s been very good this season. Which is surely the most relevant factor when considering his utitlity to the club?

I think you''ll find that there is more to signing a player than just deciding you want him. Other factors being money, clubs prospects, facilities, how much the player wants to leave, the area etc.

So I don''t think your argument that Liverpool didn''t want him adds any weight whatsoever. Unless you work for the club, how on earth do you know who did or didn''t come in for him?

[Graham Humphrey 13]

Also if nobody wanted him, then surely we could have offered him a one-year deal (or even pay-as-you-play) on drastically cut wages, and said "this is the best offer you''re gonna get... take it or leave it". Instead we offered him a two-year deal, on (presumably) decent wages. Now I know we''ve had some incredibly incompetent people involved in the running of this club but surely nobody would be that stupid?

[Jack Flash 13]

re......Lambert didn''t want him...

Now therein lies the answer - Lambert didn''t want hin briefly, until he saw what Doc can deliver. And changed his mind very very quickly. Lambert is, as we all agree, a very astute tactician and football man, so if he thinks Doc is a good player, that''ll do for me. What say you, Houston Canary?

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

Houston doesn''t seem the type to agree to disagree; everyone else has to agree with hi or they are wrong.

Typical bloody teacher!

[Canary Man of Kent 0]

What gets me though, is that he doesn''t seem to actually substantiate his point with any facts or examples.

So, until he does I shalln''t bother replying to him. I''m more than happy to have a constructive discussion of what Doc brings to the team, but what''s the point when you just get replies filled with waffle about how Liverpool didn''t want him.

[Houston Canary 0]

Waffle? Are you kidding me? It is a great example of the point I have been failing to penetrate your skulls, that Doherty is not all that good. Nobody wanted him, and the best you can come up with is that it takes more than 1 thing to happen for a transfer to occur. One of the things that did NOT heppen was any other team showing interest in him.

I don''t answer every comment, morty, because uinlike you, I do have a life beyond Gary Doherty.

Simon wants constructive comments, but he seems happy with the ridiculous explanations of Doherty being the only player on the team putting forth any effort, covering for the entire midfield and defense while still holding his own valiently at CB. That is cartoonish at best.

Here''s how we can agree to disagree. You guys think he is God''s gift to NCFC and I don''t. You think if it was not for him, we''d be at the bottom of League 1, but I don''t. You guys think he is admired across the country but other teams haven''t had the funds to get him, but I don''t. From all accounts, he has been playing well at this level since returning to the line up,which happened only because of injury to another player, not Lambert suddenly realizing all of your descriptions of Doherty were accurate. He''s scoring like crazy now which is great, but would have been so much greater if it happened in previous years when he was still awesome. If this was last season, he''d probably be out leading scorer.

[morty 0]

[IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/duty_calls.png[/IMG]

[The gut 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]Waffle? Are you kidding me? It is a great example of the point I have been failing to penetrate your skulls, that Doherty is not all that good. Nobody wanted him, and the best you can come up with is that it takes more than 1 thing to happen for a transfer to occur. One of the things that did NOT heppen was any other team showing interest in him. I don''t answer every comment, morty, because uinlike you, I do have a life beyond Gary Doherty. Simon wants constructive comments, but he seems happy with the ridiculous explanations of Doherty being the only player on the team putting forth any effort, covering for the entire midfield and defense while still holding his own valiently at CB. That is cartoonish at best. Here''s how we can agree to disagree. You guys think he is God''s gift to NCFC and I don''t. You think if it was not for him, we''d be at the bottom of League 1, but I don''t. You guys think he is admired across the country but other teams haven''t had the funds to get him, but I don''t. From all accounts, he has been playing well at this level since returning to the line up,which happened only because of injury to another player, not Lambert suddenly realizing all of your descriptions of Doherty were accurate. He''s scoring like crazy now which is great, but would have been so much greater if it happened in previous years when he was still awesome. If this was last season, he''d probably be out leading scorer.[/quote]

it must be the lingo

[Canary Man of Kent 0]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]Waffle? Are you kidding me? It is a great example of the point I have been failing to penetrate your skulls, that Doherty is not all that good. Nobody wanted him, and the best you can come up with is that it takes more than 1 thing to happen for a transfer to occur. One of the things that did NOT heppen was any other team showing interest in him. I don''t answer every comment, morty, because uinlike you, I do have a life beyond Gary Doherty.

Simon wants constructive comments, but he seems happy with the ridiculous explanations of Doherty being the only player on the team putting forth any effort, covering for the entire midfield and defense while still holding his own valiently at CB. That is cartoonish at best.

Here''s how we can agree to disagree. You guys think he is God''s gift to NCFC and I don''t. You think if it was not for him, we''d be at the bottom of League 1, but I don''t. You guys think he is admired across the country but other teams haven''t had the funds to get him, but I don''t. From all accounts, he has been playing well at this level since returning to the line up,which happened only because of injury to another player, not Lambert suddenly realizing all of your descriptions of Doherty were accurate. He''s scoring like crazy now which is great, but would have been so much greater if it happened in previous years when he was still awesome. If this was last season, he''d probably be out leading scorer.[/quote]

I didn''t actually express an opinion on the Doc, I simply pointed out that your argument that there weren''t other clubs wanting to sign him and this means he isn''t very good couldn''t be substantiated and is hugely simplistic.

Your whole post comes across as the rambling of a lunatic to be frank. I can''t see what comments you''re drawing on to reach the conclusion that we all think "he is admired across the country" and that he is "the only player on the team putting forth any effort, covering for the entire midfield and defense [sic] while still holding his own valiently at CB." Things like this lead me to call your posts waffle and unsubstantiated.

I don''t really understand why we can''t all just enjoy the fact that without doubt he is playing well this season, if he doesn''t play well next season we can deal with that then. I think the original poster''s point is really that people should stop judging him on performances last season where the whole team was poor. I can''t see why that is unreasonable.

[Houston Canary 0]

Simon, when I respond to these lunatic fantasy comments, I often combine them so there may be some mixing of who each paragraph is directed to. Thus the confusion on the oara you hi-lited.

I agree fully with your last para. That is what got me started. Here is a thread started by someone who thinks Doherty has been the victim of hate threads all year long but there have not been any in months. Even his detractors say he is playnig well since returning to the team, but the ones who wear blinders make up ridiculous stories about how awesome he is. Then you come on here and demand only that I somehow provide proof for things I write, which I have done as best I can (okay, you tell me what teams were swarming around trying to sign Doherty on the various occasions he was available, since it will be easier for you to prove a positive than me a negative).

[Dicky 0]

Houston, you have a problem....