are people falling for the board's plan?

[DGC 0]

Well, it seems Bryan Gunn is in the spotlight at the minute, i hear people are slating him for this, but have you considered he may be being pushed into the spotlight by his superiors? Could Delia and Co. be working their masterplan to direct the bullets Gunn''s way? I think it could certainly be construed that way. The Gunn bashers (whether they want him as manager or not) should, i think, do their best to ignore the manager situation and use this unique window of opportunity to rid NCFC of the real core of the problem once and for all. I mean, what happens if they pull out a semi-inspiring management choice only for it to fail in a years time? What happens after the honeymoon period of a new manager Answer: square one, and boy is that a familiar and unhelpful place for us. I truly believe the manager situation should be the least of our concerns right now, that will take care of itself once the board are taken care of. It certainly shouldn''t be the main topic of debate at NCISA''s meeting as seems to be suggested (note to NCISA). The problems are seated way way deeper and concentrating on whether Gunny should stay or go is only playing straight into the board''s hands in my opinion.

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="DGC"]Well, it seems Bryan Gunn is in the spotlight at the minute, i hear people are slating him for this, but have you considered he may be being pushed into the spotlight by his superiors? Could Delia and Co. be working their masterplan to direct the bullets Gunn''s way? I think it could certainly be construed that way.

The Gunn bashers (whether they want him as manager or not) should, i think, do their best to ignore the manager situation and use this unique window of opportunity to rid NCFC of the real core of the problem once and for all. I mean, what happens if they pull out a semi-inspiring management choice only for it to fail in a years time? What happens after the honeymoon period of a new manager Answer: square one, and boy is that a familiar and unhelpful place for us.

I truly believe the manager situation should be the least of our concerns right now, that will take care of itself once the board are taken care of. It certainly shouldn''t be the main topic of debate at NCISA''s meeting as seems to be suggested (note to NCISA). The problems are seated way way deeper and concentrating on whether Gunny should stay or go is only playing straight into the board''s hands in my opinion.


[/quote]

I know where you''re coming from, DGC - but the reason people are so preoccupied with the Gunn issue is, in my opinion, whether he stays or goes will say everything about whether there really will be changes. If new blood comes into the boardroom, and that new blood is responsible for searching for a proper manager, that has to be a good thing - but if they just appoint Gunn regardless... Even then, getting the right manager will be no guarantee of success at all: something is rotten in the state of Norwich City, and we all remember what happened with Martin O''Neill under Chase. All the deeper rooted issues would still apply - but appointing the right manager would at least represent a start.

[Clever Farke 75]

[quote user="DGC"]Well, it seems Bryan Gunn is in the spotlight at the minute, i hear people are slating him for this, but have you considered he may be being pushed into the spotlight by his superiors? Could Delia and Co. be working their masterplan to direct the bullets Gunn''s way? I think it could certainly be construed that way.

The Gunn bashers (whether they want him as manager or not) should, i think, do their best to ignore the manager situation and use this unique window of opportunity to rid NCFC of the real core of the problem once and for all. I mean, what happens if they pull out a semi-inspiring management choice only for it to fail in a years time? What happens after the honeymoon period of a new manager Answer: square one, and boy is that a familiar and unhelpful place for us.

I truly believe the manager situation should be the least of our concerns right now, that will take care of itself once the board are taken care of. It certainly shouldn''t be the main topic of debate at NCISA''s meeting as seems to be suggested (note to NCISA). The problems are seated way way deeper and concentrating on whether Gunny should stay or go is only playing straight into the board''s hands in my opinion.


[/quote]

Couldn''t agree more, Gunny is out hung out there to take the flak (and he''s pretty damn good at it) and buy them some time. To do what exactly, is anyones guess.

[DGC 0]

But as the Martin O''Neill case proved. If you don''t sort those deeper rooted issues, it won''t matter if you have Bryan Gunn or Alex Ferguson as manager, we''ll remain on the road to failure. The only real solution is to hit the root cause of the problem and only the problem as only then will we stand a chance of turning a corner. Other wise we''ll remain in a viscous cycle that keeps going round and round and round. By focussing on the manager situation all we''re doing is giving the board an easy ride. They''ll end up giving a quick fix, a picifier if you look before normal business resumes once the hysteria dies down. Like i said above, the current situation is a unique window of opportunity which needs to act as a catalyst. Waste it and we''ll be stuck how we are for a few more years.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Not me, my attention is firmly on the important issue of the day, namely when the club are going to replace my old, jaded, faded seat with a brand new, shiny, yellow one!!

[thebigfeller 200]

[quote user="DGC"]But as the Martin O''Neill case proved. If you don''t sort those deeper rooted issues, it won''t matter if you have Bryan Gunn or Alex Ferguson as manager, we''ll remain on the road to failure. The only real solution is to hit the root cause of the problem and only the problem as only then will we stand a chance of turning a corner. Other wise we''ll remain in a viscous cycle that keeps going round and round and round.

By focussing on the manager situation all we''re doing is giving the board an easy ride. They''ll end up giving a quick fix, a picifier if you look before normal business resumes once the hysteria dies down.

Like i said above, the current situation is a unique window of opportunity which needs to act as a catalyst. Waste it and we''ll be stuck how we are for a few more years.
[/quote]

I don''t disagree at all - but leaving Gunn in charge is a recipe for disaster. I highly doubt the board are clever enough to have planned all this: they''re too incompetent to be that macchiavellian! But you''re absolutely right about the deeper rooted problems: it''s up to all of us to hold them to account and remain focused on what the real problem is. And that''s the directors of the club.

[Chunky Norwich 0]

I can see where you''re coming from with that logic but I don''t think so. Every time Gunn is wheeled out or a rumour does the rounds, the conversation inevitably steers around to the board being inept, Doncaster needing a pay-out, ''the cook'' being forced out etc

[DGC 0]

Exactly, but i fear this is going whip up into some kind of scapegoat Gunn frenzy and thus allow the real culprits to slip the hook. By the way i''m undecided on Gunn, in fact i haven''t given it much thought at all yet as my anger and disappointment hasn''t moved beyond the board since the Charlton debacle and i''m not sure it even will. As i said before, for as long as we have the current board in place i really don''t think who sits in the dugout will make any difference.

[Time to go Delia 0]

I dont think Gunns any kind of scapegoat in fact i firmly believe hes already been told he will be manager next season , and my opinion is i would rather have a proper manager in the dugout . Would be nice to have new owners and a new Board to go with that new manager i must admit but i just dont see that happening.

[Mello Yello 2,573]

The entire focus should be centered on the board - and particularly the Chief Executive.

To be target fixated on Bryan Gunn, whilst those who are ultimately responsible for our downward spiral - surround themselves with some kind of romulan cloaking device and as the norm, will choose to remain mute and ride out the raging fire - until the heat dissipates and some other unfortunate takes the flak - and the rap.

Then, they''ll arise - and spew forth the usual pompous and patronising platitudes.....

 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Not the entire focus, there should be a little focus saved for the important issue of my old, jaded, faded, off white seat.....

[NMTD 0]

You are so right. The manager is one question, but the board and ownership of the club are far far more important at the present time.

[First Wizard 0]

If Gunn can''t stand the heat................

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Yo Wiz, do you think the club should replace my old, jaded, faded seat?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Yo Wiz, do you think the club should replace my old, jaded, faded seat?[/quote]

Of course they should SOB.......its a County disgrace that seat![:@]

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,223]

Cheers Wiz, and I hope our faded, jaded club returns to its former glory, sooner rather than later.

[gazzathegreat 0]

DGC, don''t worry, Gunn (or any of the previous managers) won''t be the main topic of conversation at the meeting on Thursday. I think we are all well versed in the board and their not so cunning little plans.

IF the board remain in their present set up with the present flabby thinking and disastrous financial policies, we could have Sir Alex in charge and he''d make no difference.

[Grando 336]

All the seats should be replaced.

With terracing! Now we''re in the 3rd Division aren''t we allowed!?

[Badger 0]

[quote user="DGC"]But as the Martin O''Neill case proved. If you don''t sort those deeper rooted issues, it won''t matter if you have Bryan Gunn or Alex Ferguson as manager, we''ll remain on the road to failure. The only real solution is to hit the root cause of the problem and only the problem as only then will we stand a chance of turning a corner. [/quote]I don''t want to alienate you but do you think that we addressed the deeper rooted issue following MON?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="gazzathegreat"]DGC, don''t worry, Gunn (or any of the previous managers) won''t be the main topic of conversation at the meeting on Thursday. I think we are all well versed in the board and their not so cunning little plans. IF the board remain in their present set up with the present flabby thinking and disastrous financial policies, we could have Sir Alex in charge and he''d make no difference.[/quote]

That''s fair enough Gazza but surely the performance of the football team and football managers is what we should be focussing on. It''s something we all have in common. We all go for the football and it''s been awful. In the end whatever way you spin it the board are accountable for that. Getting sidetracked into something we don''t really understand is not playing to our strengths. We are football fans. Many posters on this board never post about football, they are into the politics and finances. But we don''t pay our money for that. We go to games and buy our tickets for football. The reason we got relegated was that the footballers, that the board together with their last 3 appointed managers, assembled before us were not good enough to keep us in the Championship.

 

[bloodwagon 0]

Just going on the title.........

 

I dont think the board has a plan !!!!!!!!!

I think they are playing it day by day

[Paperclip 0]

I suspect the board will just ignore the fans who are steadfastly opposed to Gunny and give him the job anyway. They have previous here for taking the unpopular option, such as appointing Hamilton and publicly backing Worthington just as the Worthy Out campaign was beginning to start up for example.It wouldn''t be a big surprise to see one of either Munby or Doomycaster fall on their sword to appease the fans baying for blood though and the Wynn-Jones will claim it as a fresh start for the Club when in reality, until they dilute their shareholding, nothing they do will make any difference whatsoever because they have the final say.

[Paperclip 0]

I meant to add they have the final say on everything at the Club, regardless of whoever joins the board or replaces ND. Ultimately D & M have to look at creating new shareholding or disposing of a portion of theirs because clearly, there is a need for new voices in the boardroom who will be prepared to inject a sense of reality into the cosy group of 5 we have in there now who appear to live in their own little world, where everything is rosy and lovely and the fans are the 12th man. Well that was until those nasty loan players got us relegated though but don''t worry everyone, our management team of legends will put everything right next season and everyone will love Delia once more. The scary thing is that I''m probably not too far from the truth by saying that!

[Smudger 0]

[quote user="DGC"]Exactly, but i fear this is going whip up into some kind of scapegoat Gunn frenzy and thus allow the real culprits to slip the hook.

By the way i''m undecided on Gunn, in fact i haven''t given it much thought at all yet as my anger and disappointment hasn''t moved beyond the board since the Charlton debacle and i''m not sure it even will.

As i said before, for as long as we have the current board in place i really don''t think who sits in the dugout will make any difference.
[/quote]

Very True DGC... [Y]

My suggestion (as poor a manager that I think he is) is that they stick with Gunny or promote Chippy or Butterworth and have them take charge of the team on a Caretaker basis only until fresh blood is brought in to the Boardroom.

Otherwise should that new manager be appointed then NCFC will probably be paying another manager off within the next year also.

This does not mean that those in charge and Gunny himself should not be made aware that the job he has done so far is simply not good enough and that given fresh investment that he would be one of the first out the door should he not drastically improve.

[Captain Holt 580]

[quote user="Smudger"]

[quote user="DGC"]Exactly, but i fear this is going whip up into some kind of scapegoat Gunn frenzy and thus allow the real culprits to slip the hook. By the way i''m undecided on Gunn, in fact i haven''t given it much thought at all yet as my anger and disappointment hasn''t moved beyond the board since the Charlton debacle and i''m not sure it even will. As i said before, for as long as we have the current board in place i really don''t think who sits in the dugout will make any difference.[/quote]

Very True DGC... [Y]

My suggestion (as poor a manager that I think he is) is that they stick with Gunny or promote Chippy or Butterworth and have them take charge of the team on a Caretaker basis only until fresh blood is brought in to the Boardroom.

Otherwise should that new manager be appointed then NCFC will probably be paying another manager off within the next year also.

This does not mean that those in charge and Gunny himself should not be made aware that the job he has done so far is simply not good enough and that given fresh investment that he would be one of the first out the door should he not drastically improve.

[/quote]I agree Smudge. I think we''ll be stuck with what we''ve got until The board has gone, purely because Gunn is the cheap option (Surely the board aren''t as stupid to believe that he has actually done a good job?). At least now, more and more fans are standing up and being counted in regards to demanding change (although in fairness the 2 protest''s haven''t been very sucessul numbers-wise), but it''s a shame that it has taken this long for a lot of us to realise it. If new investment/owners aren''t found, then I feel there is only one way we are heading, and that ain''t up

[gazzathegreat 0]

Nutty, if we, as messageboard posters, fans, or those going to the meeting on Thursday focus on the manager it''s a bit like treating the symptoms of a disease without finding out what caused the malaise in the first place. (You must forgive me the medical stuff, it''s my job!!).

Just how many managers do we have to go through before we realise that they are merely a bit part of the problem? Of course what they do is more obvious and immediate than those behind them, but the cause of our problems is the board.

Manager after manager failing - why? Not all down to team selections is it? Tactics, insufficient motivation? All these play a part, but look at the track record of the past few years. Depending on how far you want to go back, it''s not good is it?

A catalogue of errors by the board have led us to where we are. Bad planning (by that I mean little or no planning), a small or non existent skill set for the task of running a football club. Attitude towards the fans, and then of course the have they/have they not been looking for investment? How much do you list as you dig deeper.

Yes we all go to football, and it''s been awful. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to go to a match and not even think about anything but what I saw on the pitch. IF there are fans that do that, well good luck to them. I tend to think most of us going on Thursday, and other concerned fans who can''t make it want some answers from the board and to see that they will develop new strategies and not just go back to their old ways (while patronising the fans in the process).

We, as fans, cannot let them do this. Of all the troubles which have come our way there is one, and only one constant in all of it, and that is the board.

Sidetracked into something we don''t understand, well sorry Nutty, I have to disagree on that, it''s blindingly obvious the five people in charge haven''t a clue what they are doing - do they possess the necessary skills anymore than any of us?

I think you will find there is a massive understanding of not just the state of the football, but the state of the club and how it''s run. Of those 25,000 and more fans, don''t you suppose just a few are Company Directors, Solicitors, Accountants, those who work in the media, Public Relations and lots more. I think we understand only too well that the board are not only incompetent and not fit to run our club, but that we have to do something to address where our club is going.

While we can only gaze in envy and wonder just how 20 clubs finished above us in the league and how they managed it, we have to focus entirely on why we didn''t and the reasons why. No we don''t pay our money to delve into the finances or politics of the club, but damn them, they are hugely significant and the reason why we can''t focus on just the football.

[gazzathegreat 0]

Two great posts Paperclip and sadly you are not too far from the truth.

[ZLF 335]

There ius no poor old bryan in this;  he has the job he wanted.  My issues are clearly twofold

1. Gunny has proved that he is poor at picking a team that wins, tactically inept,  poor at recruiting suitable players and unable to motivate players - in other words he is not up to the job that he wanted for a long while and chose to apply for and accept.  No poor bryan - he got what he wanted but aint up to the task.  Replace him and now
2. The board in appointing him made the worst error of judgement in their tenure,  failing to learn from the mistake of Peter Grants appoint ment that experince was needed and Roeders appointment that working on a tight budget and of this league was essential, or recognise that avoiding relegation was not going to be found in an unqualified inexperienced PR guru/scout who has a fans passion for the club.  The only decent part of this appointment was short term contract;  waive that by giving Gunn the job full time, which would speak volumes about their inability to recognise or learn from mistakes, and my assessment on their judgement is complete.

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Totally agree with Zipper and I would add that we should be concentrating on the football mistakes since the sacking of Nigel Worthington. I am quite happy to list them for those who haven''t noticed amongst the other stuff we get caught up in.

 

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Not me, my attention is firmly on the important issue of the day, namely when the club are going to replace my old, jaded, faded seat with a brand new, shiny, yellow one!![/quote]

Could you not render it useless at a match next season, by jumping up and down on it, taking out your frustrations on yet another match we''ve thrown away? Failing that, you could accidentally set light to it!