one of two

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Desert Fox"]

Of the five Board members, two are a related party and two are employees. Hypothetically, if the two employees were to align themseslves with Foulger and out vote the Wynn-Jones, I would strongly wager that they would not be employees for much longer. So lets not pretend that the Board is a paragon of democracy.

[/quote]I can only think of one board member who is an employee, and that is Neil Doncaster.

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

xcityman you keep implying that it is AB and despite his disillusionment with the club, he would certainly not endorse several of your points.  So clarify or stop stirring.

[LQ 0]

xcityman, pleased as I am that you agree with my points could I ask that you don''t exaggerate for ''effect''?Things are bad enough around here without having to exaggerate anything, don''t you think?

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

Toms comments dont stack up, this is why we are in this position!! this blind support, of infrastructure and the board have let this continue for far to long!Yes we have 25000, but kids get in for 10 to 25 quid per season ticket, the fact is we never have any money to invest in the team,it seems all the money from gate receipts goes to paying for the loans, which our friends have converted into shares! which if doing well will pay for ever thing else........ there seems to be this trail of thought that if you have a nice ground you have made it!!!We are in a terrible state and close to administration.....and its blind fools like him who have got us into this mess!  enoughs enough.....stand united!

[LQ 0]

CanaryCharge, are you saying that season tickets are too cheap? I certainly think that, in fact when I was chatting about it with my Uncle the other day he point blank refused to believe how little we pay. In any league other than the Promised Land season ticket income is always going to be potentially the biggest money maker for any club. I can see the theory behind having a packed Carrow Road blasting down the oppositions fans but in reality I think our ticketing and concessions strategies have sold us short.

[Desert Fox 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

Of the five Board members, two are a related party and two are employees. Hypothetically, if the two employees were to align themseslves with Foulger and out vote the Wynn-Jones, I would strongly wager that they would not be employees for much longer. So lets not pretend that the Board is a paragon of democracy.

[/quote]

I can only think of one board member who is an employee, and that is Neil Doncaster.[/quote]

Purple Canary,

Ok I used the term employee loosely. Munby is virtually a non-shareholding chairman who is paid a fee. The point that I was making was that his appointment is based upon the consent of the majority shareholders rather than any sizeable shareholdinmg. Effectively he acts as if he is an employee.

Anyway, this doesnt change the points that I have made on this and many other threads.

1. The Board are clueless and the direction of their travel is soley dictated by the majority shareholder. Why do you think the Turners left. I assume Tom knows.

2. Our current position is not mainly due to a suceession of weak managers.

3. This site is riddled with employees or close asscoiastes of the club who are desperate to stem the tide of growing disgust against the mismanagement of this club. They hate this subject being debated.

I cant think of one redeeming feature of the muppets that run our club and frankly distrust the motives of anyone who comes on hear to speak up for them.

 

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

[quote user="LQ"]CanaryCharge, are you saying that season tickets are too cheap? I certainly think that, in fact when I was chatting about it with my Uncle the other day he point blank refused to believe how little we pay. In any league other than the Promised Land season ticket income is always going to be potentially the biggest money maker for any club. I can see the theory behind having a packed Carrow Road blasting down the oppositions fans but in reality I think our ticketing and concessions strategies have sold us short.

[/quote]yeap this is doomcasters plan, it is blind thinking we have made it due to 25000 being there, this why there are so many supporters of the board! in there eyes it is good regardless of what division we are in, it serves as a day out!you will see when you say some thing against the board on match day....... p.s i think the adult pricing is fine! lol

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

Of the five Board members, two are a related party and two are employees. Hypothetically, if the two employees were to align themseslves with Foulger and out vote the Wynn-Jones, I would strongly wager that they would not be employees for much longer. So lets not pretend that the Board is a paragon of democracy.

[/quote]I can only think of one board member who is an employee, and that is Neil Doncaster.[/quote]

Purple Canary,

Ok I used the term employee loosely. Munby is virtually a non-shareholding chairman who is paid a fee.

 

[/quote]No, you used it wrongly. And he is not paid a fee. His company is paid compensation for time he spends on NCFC business.

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

[quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

Of the five Board members, two are a related party and two are employees. Hypothetically, if the two employees were to align themseslves with Foulger and out vote the Wynn-Jones, I would strongly wager that they would not be employees for much longer. So lets not pretend that the Board is a paragon of democracy.

[/quote]I can only think of one board member who is an employee, and that is Neil Doncaster.[/quote]

Purple Canary,

Ok I used the term employee loosely. Munby is virtually a non-shareholding chairman who is paid a fee. The point that I was making was that his appointment is based upon the consent of the majority shareholders rather than any sizeable shareholdinmg. Effectively he acts as if he is an employee.

Anyway, this doesnt change the points that I have made on this and many other threads.

1. The Board are clueless and the direction of their travel is soley dictated by the majority shareholder. Why do you think the Turners left. I assume Tom knows.

2. Our current position is not mainly due to a suceession of weak managers.

3. This site is riddled with employees or close asscoiastes of the club who are desperate to stem the tide of growing disgust against the mismanagement of this club. They hate this subject being debated.

I cant think of one redeeming feature of the muppets that run our club and frankly distrust the motives of anyone who comes on hear to speak up for them.

 

[/quote]liking your posts desert fox!

[Mello Yello 2,293]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]

[quote user="xcityman"]How does delia use the club to promote her business? We cant argue with you on that point but why invest in a football club? why go on the pitch half cut and shout at the fans? why try and get on to the itfc board before norwich? simple, investment and not love for the club, investment in personal interests.[/quote]

Because Delia and her husband have no kids, her hubby is a Norwich fan and she had become one too, the club was in very serious trouble, and they thought they would help rather than stand by and let the club go bust. She went on the pitch because she wanted the team to do well and they needed all the support they could get. It was a mistake, but it showed that she cared and is genuine.

[/quote]

In my opinion, to those who slate Mr Cullum for supposedly holding out and biding his time in the hope of getting the club on the cheap - should think why Delia and MWJ didn''t make their move; when the protest against Robert Chase was gathering momentum - and the Stowmarket Two (although completely aware of the situation and unrest), didn''t actually move a muscle or declare their intentions - till Chase had departed.

Then, in they came.... 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="xcityman"]the man i talked to knows, he was a senior staff member in his department and dealt personally with all the directors[/quote]

Would he now be working at MK Dons with Andy Cullen?

[CANARY CHARGE 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="tom cavendish"]

[quote user="xcityman"]How does delia use the club to promote her business? We cant argue with you on that point but why invest in a football club? why go on the pitch half cut and shout at the fans? why try and get on to the itfc board before norwich? simple, investment and not love for the club, investment in personal interests.[/quote]

Because Delia and her husband have no kids, her hubby is a Norwich fan and she had become one too, the club was in very serious trouble, and they thought they would help rather than stand by and let the club go bust. She went on the pitch because she wanted the team to do well and they needed all the support they could get. It was a mistake, but it showed that she cared and is genuine.

[/quote]

In my opinion, to those who slate Mr Cullum for supposedly holding out and biding his time in the hope of getting the club on the cheap - should think why Delia and MWJ didn''t make their move; when the protest against Robert Chase was gathering momentum - and the Stowmarket Two (although completely aware of the situation and unrest), didn''t actually move a muscle or declare their intentions - till Chase had departed.

Then, in they came.... 

[/quote]People remember what they want!!!......the fact is no business man would buy something at a inflated price, and for people to say other wise is stupid!! 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Tom, in financial terms from the accounts nothing has been "given" to the club by Delia and MWJ- loans have been exchanged for shares.  Now, i trade in the stock market and am fully aware that share prices can go up or down and it`s possible to lose the lot- it`s the nature of the beast i`m afraid.  I have no experience in running football clubs at all but if i decided to become a majority shareholder at a club and cocked things up due to my own inexperience/inability, i wouldn`t blame everything else or expect people to support me out of loyalty/sentiment.  The idea is pathetic and smacks of the kind of sentimental woolly thinking which has lead to our clubs demise.

[/quote]

Delia had kindly not taken any interest due on the money she loaned to the club and people would only moan if the club had paid her back her millions in loans. Banks have withrawn many overdrafts to clubs that owe such money to other people, so Delia kindly converted her loans into shares to free up some more finance for the club to sign players.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Desert Fox"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Desert Fox"]

Of the five Board members, two are a related party and two are employees. Hypothetically, if the two employees were to align themseslves with Foulger and out vote the Wynn-Jones, I would strongly wager that they would not be employees for much longer. So lets not pretend that the Board is a paragon of democracy.

[/quote]

I can only think of one board member who is an employee, and that is Neil Doncaster.[/quote]

Purple Canary,

Ok I used the term employee loosely. Munby is virtually a non-shareholding chairman who is paid a fee.

 

[/quote]

No, you used it wrongly. And he is not paid a fee. His company is paid compensation for time he spends on NCFC business.[/quote]

RM owns "his" company so you are splitting hairs.

[. 0]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][quote user="tom cavendish"]

[quote user="xcityman"]How does delia use the club to promote her business? We cant argue with you on that point but why invest in a football club? why go on the pitch half cut and shout at the fans? why try and get on to the itfc board before norwich? simple, investment and not love for the club, investment in personal interests.[/quote]

Because Delia and her husband have no kids, her hubby is a Norwich fan and she had become one too, the club was in very serious trouble, and they thought they would help rather than stand by and let the club go bust. She went on the pitch because she wanted the team to do well and they needed all the support they could get. It was a mistake, but it showed that she cared and is genuine.

[/quote]

In my opinion, to those who slate Mr Cullum for supposedly holding out and biding his time in the hope of getting the club on the cheap - should think why Delia and MWJ didn''t make their move; when the protest against Robert Chase was gathering momentum - and the Stowmarket Two (although completely aware of the situation and unrest), didn''t actually move a muscle or declare their intentions - till Chase had departed.

Then, in they came.... 

[/quote]

Exactly.......

Only a fool would show his hand early which would cost him money. Peter Cullum is not that daft.

The sooner Smith packs her bags and leaves....the sooner the club can move forward.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Tom, in financial terms from the accounts nothing has been "given" to the club by Delia and MWJ- loans have been exchanged for shares.  Now, i trade in the stock market and am fully aware that share prices can go up or down and it`s possible to lose the lot- it`s the nature of the beast i`m afraid.  I have no experience in running football clubs at all but if i decided to become a majority shareholder at a club and cocked things up due to my own inexperience/inability, i wouldn`t blame everything else or expect people to support me out of loyalty/sentiment.  The idea is pathetic and smacks of the kind of sentimental woolly thinking which has lead to our clubs demise.

[/quote]

Delia had kindly not taken any interest due on the money she loaned to the club and people would only moan if the club had paid her back her millions in loans. Banks have withrawn many overdrafts to clubs that owe such money to other people, so Delia kindly converted her loans into shares to free up some more finance for the club to sign players.

[/quote]

Tom, funnily enough i don`t receive interest on money i`ve invested in shares either, but that`s my choice just as it was Delias.  Total non-argument....but i`m getting used to it.

I don`t see too many other clubs of a comparable stature worse off than us i`m afraid tom "withdrawn overdrafts" or not.  What does that tell you?

[Mello Yello 2,293]

We''ve done a Risedale''s ''Leeds''.....Except, instead of paying gargantuan amounts for players and their wages.... we''ve overspent sh*tloads on a nicey, nice stadium - with all the nicey, nice infrastructure, which is all well and good....But, the crux of what the club should represent and is what really attracts....is of a vastly inferior quality.....and will be even more so, come August.

When the tightening of belts is in operation as finance for the club diminishes and deteriorates....

....will the padlocks seal the doors of the restaurants? Will the CE take a pay-cut?.....

So, that as at least a few folk employed in less glamorous positions at Norwich City FOOTBALL CLUB - won''t be collecting their P45s?

I wonder....

 

 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

Tom, in financial terms from the accounts nothing has been "given" to the club by Delia and MWJ- loans have been exchanged for shares.  Now, i trade in the stock market and am fully aware that share prices can go up or down and it`s possible to lose the lot- it`s the nature of the beast i`m afraid.  I have no experience in running football clubs at all but if i decided to become a majority shareholder at a club and cocked things up due to my own inexperience/inability, i wouldn`t blame everything else or expect people to support me out of loyalty/sentiment.  The idea is pathetic and smacks of the kind of sentimental woolly thinking which has lead to our clubs demise.

[/quote]

Delia had kindly not taken any interest due on the money she loaned to the club and people would only moan if the club had paid her back her millions in loans. Banks have withrawn many overdrafts to clubs that owe such money to other people, so Delia kindly converted her loans into shares to free up some more finance for the club to sign players.

[/quote]

Tom, funnily enough i don`t receive interest on money i`ve invested in shares either, but that`s my choice just as it was Delias.  Total non-argument....but i`m getting used to it.

I don`t see too many other clubs of a comparable stature worse off than us i`m afraid tom "withdrawn overdrafts" or not.  What does that tell you?

[/quote]

Delia did not take any interest on the money she had loaned to the club. She later converted her loans to shares. Would you rather the club had paid her interest on her loans and that she had not converted her loans to shares?

As for other clubs, Southampton and Charlton were relegated with Norwich and they are similar sized clubs, plus Southampton are in admin''. Leeds are a bigger club than Norwich and are in L1. Leicester and Nottingham Forest have been in L1 and were having serious financial problems.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

It`s called being responsible for your actions tom.  As i have said, i have a reasonable sum invested in shares, i make no interest, if i lose the lot i`ll take it on the chin just as i would if i invested in shares in a football club- i certainly wouldn`t expect support and blind loyalty for screwing up something which means so much to so many people.

At the moment only Southampton are worse off than us out of the clubs you mentioned in that they are in admin- the rest are in the same league as us or a league above.  Frankly, it would take too long to list all the smaller clubs who are doing better than us, but you know perfectly well who they are don`t you?

[Tim Allman 1]

I saw this thread last night, and my intial thoughts as to who xcityman''s mystery name was were the same name as John Tilson''s.

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Tim Allman"]

I saw this thread last night, and my intial thoughts as to who xcityman''s mystery name was were the same name as John Tilson''s.

 

[/quote]

Tim,shall i give it another go to see if he will be named by the O.P?

How about i ask is his surname the same as a Spurs midfielder currently going out with the WAG of all WAGS Danielle Lloyd?

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

It`s called being responsible for your actions tom.  As i have said, i have a reasonable sum invested in shares, i make no interest, if i lose the lot i`ll take it on the chin just as i would if i invested in shares in a football club- i certainly wouldn`t expect support and blind loyalty for screwing up something which means so much to so many people.

[/quote]

I will ask again - Delia did not take any interest on the money she had loaned to the club. She later converted her loans to shares. Would you rather the club had paid her interest on her loans and that she had not converted her loans to shares?

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

It`s called being responsible for your actions tom.  As i have said, i have a reasonable sum invested in shares, i make no interest, if i lose the lot i`ll take it on the chin just as i would if i invested in shares in a football club- i certainly wouldn`t expect support and blind loyalty for screwing up something which means so much to so many people.

[/quote]

I will ask again - Delia did not take any interest on the money she had loaned to the club. She later converted her loans to shares. Would you rather the club had paid her interest on her loans and that she had not converted her loans to shares?

[/quote]

No of course i wouldn`t tom and i`d be happy to see her get her money back.  Trouble is with non-player costs having risen by £10m since 2002 leaving next to nothing available to be spent on football (from the 2008 accounts), the club at its lowest level for 50 years and more in debt than its ever been, it`s not going to happen and she needs to accept she`s lost her gamble.

Now, how many clubs of a similar stature are actually worse off than us at this moment in time?  When are you going to address my points about Birmingham and South Yorkshire re. catchment areas on the other thread?  If i`ve got it wrong, why can`t you tell me how?

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]

It`s called being responsible for your actions tom.  As i have said, i have a reasonable sum invested in shares, i make no interest, if i lose the lot i`ll take it on the chin just as i would if i invested in shares in a football club- i certainly wouldn`t expect support and blind loyalty for screwing up something which means so much to so many people.

[/quote]

I will ask again - Delia did not take any interest on the money she had loaned to the club. She later converted her loans to shares. Would you rather the club had paid her interest on her loans and that she had not converted her loans to shares?

[/quote]

No of course i wouldn`t tom and i`d be happy to see her get her money back.  Trouble is with non-player costs having risen by £10m since 2002 leaving next to nothing available to be spent on football (from the 2008 accounts), the club at its lowest level for 50 years and more in debt than its ever been, it`s not going to happen and she needs to accept she`s lost her gamble.

Now, how many clubs of a similar stature are actually worse off than us at this moment in time?  When are you going to address my points about Birmingham and South Yorkshire re. catchment areas on the other thread?  If i`ve got it wrong, why can`t you tell me how?

[/quote]

Population of Barnsley = 222,100
Average attendance = 13,189

Population of Doncaster = 286,866
Average attendance = 11,963

Population of Rotherham = 248,175
Average attendance = 3,421

Population of Sheffield = 513,234
Average attendance of SW = 21,542
Average attendance of SU = 26,023

Population of (Greater) Norwich = 223,200
Average attendance = 24,543

[Moanin Riverender 0]

Well,according to this EDP article from 2001,''generous'' interest was being paid on loans,at least at that time;

City''s debt to Delia

13 October 2001 13:47

The true scale of Norwich City''s debt to Delia Smith and her husband Michael Wynn Jones can be revealed today as new figures are published underlining their efforts to keep the club afloat.

Last season, the couple accepted extra shares in the club rather than call in a £500,000 debt – and then loaned the club a further £1.39 million on "generous" repayment terms.

But the financial accounts published today also reveal the Canaries'' dependence on transfer windfalls, such as the £5.3 million secured by the sale of Craig Bellamy to Coventry at the start of last season. Without the cash from Bellamy''s transfer, the club would have made a loss of £3.4 million rather than the club''s first modest profit since 1998.

Last night, Canaries chief executive Neil Doncaster said that Norwich City remained a "selling club".

But he added: "We are dependent on the goodwill of Delia and Michael Wynn Jones; we''re very grateful for their continued support of the club. They''re providing an enormous amount of financial support."

Mr Doncaster also defended the interest on loans being paid to the board members and their associated companies. "The reality is that most people aren''t going to be keen to lend unsecured money to a football club, and that''s why we''re so grateful to directors who are prepared to put their own money on the line," he said.

 

[xcityman 0]

was disaillusioned!! [quote user="xcityman"]i would not say he is disillusioned, he walked out on them.[/quote]

[xcityman 0]

I urge you to have a look at google maps, have a look at how big Norwich is in relation to the rest of the world.

This is a message board that allows people to say anything they like. Surely if you are truly concerned that ''things are bad enough'' dont look at the site.

It is very hard to qualify anything and i mean anything on here which means very few posts if any at all can be considered credible.

The fact is that when it boils down to it what happens in that club is down to the board the most influential members of it. We as supporters some with a few shares have absolutely no really control of what happens. Yes, the board will listen to public opinion, give us some patronizing statement to paper over the cracks (donkey is as arrogant as Roeder but his board line insulting manner in front if the camera he gets away with) and then go one of two ways. Either stick theirs heads in the sand and hope it sorts its self out or react with a knee jerk reaction, either way they are the reactions of a weak group of individuals and it is clear they have very little ''football knowledge''

[xcityman 0]

NON FOOTBALL COSTS RISEN £10 MILLION

Yeah on catering staff to sustain delias catering empire

[xcityman 0]

and another think

i understand that the debate on delias love for the club will never end because we will never know. However there is no doubt in my mind that she is a business woman a very shrewd and ruthless business women.

What ever financial interest she has in the club she will want back, simple as that.

Inflated share price when selling is an option, why? to get her money back. Rumor has it that when the share price was questioned during negotiations a new deal was put forward by delia involving control of the catering facilities and it was smashed over the boundary for 6.

[xcityman 0]

who is AB?