An open letter to NCISA

[PurpleCanary 6,387]

I’m not normally a fan of open letters (especially long ones), but since I haven’t received my questionnaire, and what I have to say may be of interest to non-NCISA people…

What is NCISA for? What does NCISA want to be for? We have just been through nearly six months of (public) Cullumgate without NCISA playing a meaningful role. Now NCFC is up for sale. It has changed hands before but, given the way the economics of football have altered, the next choice of to whom to sell is likely to be the single most important decision in the club’s 106-year history.

There is no need to rake over Cullumgate, except that it has two lessons for the future. Firstly, there is a saying in Hollywood – “No-one knows anything.” Could have been coined for the last few months.

The club said very little. In his half dozen or so interviews with the EDP Cullum gave away little of substance. Which would not have mattered had the journalists at Archant Towers done their job and tried to dig out the truth. They failed completely. I know he’s not everyone’s cup of tea but Waghorn’s coverage was more insightful, although far from perfect - he believed the King of Deals stuff for too long.

So for months into this information void flooded all sorts of crazy speculation, guesswork, misunderstandings, misconceptions and erroneous assumptions, setting fan against fan. And this is still going on; recently a poster on this site said there was no need to worry about a particular forthcoming debt repayment because Cullum had promised in his latest EDP interview to pay it. Well, no, actually, he’d made no such commitment, but the poster went ahead and believed he had anyway. No wonder that on the bigger issues (such as whether there was a cast-iron guarantee of £20m for transfers) confusion reigned.

I know not what collective expertise NCISA possesses, but could it not have produced an objective idiot’s guide on its website to Cullumgate? Dealing with, for example, the various mechanisms for buying the club, the 30 per cent share rule and whether it could be avoided, information on minority shareholdings, information on the debt, information on Cullum and his financial standing. I’m not remotely suggesting NCISA should have backed one side or the other, but it could have helped those fans getting thoroughly confused by all the conflicting “facts” and theories.

 

Of course this is water under the bridge, but the club is for sale. We may wake up tomorrow to find the new owner is a Baluchistani bauxite billionaire. But if it’s not a fait accompli, and we have months and months of Baluchistanigate, and the journalists at Archant Towers fall down on the job again, can NCISA help fill the knowledge gap?

The second lesson from Cullumgate The club are looking to sell to the right person with the right deal. Cullum may still – some years ahead – be the right person, and then he might have the right deal. Which is not what he had this time. So what is the right deal? This is what I’m looking for from a new owner, be it man, woman, precocious child or consortium:

1.   A commitment to stay as owner for at least a decade.
2.   A promise of an initial boost for the transfer fund.
3.   A promise of continued and substantial financial support, including boosts for the transfer fund, throughout the 10 years or more of ownership.
4.   A commitment to have at least one board member with experience of running a football club.
5.   A promise never to sell off assets such as Carrow Road or Colney.
6.   A promise to appoint a supporter-director with veto powers on heritage issues such as the sale of assets such as Carrow Road or Colney, and on any future sale of the club itself.
7.   A promise to keep the club’s message board.
8.   A promise to keep a (reformed) SCG.
9.   A promise to keep links with independent groups such as NCISA and to continue to hold “get shouted at by the fans” meetings such as the recent one at Banham, with senior executives and football personnel attending.
10.  A promise to support the current system of organic growth within English football and to campaign and vote against any proposal to remove promotion and relegation from the system.

But what, if anything, is NCISA looking for at this critical point in the club’s history? If it is content to be just a social club, and an independent version of the SCG, then it can stay on the sidelines.

If it wants to be more than that – and crucially has the talent to be more than that – then it needs to think about what it wants from a new owner. It also needs to be ready – again, if it has the ability - to keep its members better informed if we get sucked into a saga.

[Soldier on 290]

Good post Ive continually expressed an interest in joining NCISA and offering my opinion but have received no reply to both a personal email and private message sent via this bulletin board.

[Beauseant 0]

Excellent and well thought out post. I recently joined NCISA because I felt it was one of the few ways in which I could be little more proactive, so have little experience to go on. However, I have been surprised at the low profile adopted by NCISA over the last few months. However, the only way to change things is from the inside! By the way, I had a similiar experience to Soldier On, in that my original applicatiopn disappeared into the ether.

[First Wizard 0]

Based on my past experiences with them..............arse lickers.............the lot of them!

[Mister Chops 7]

Your letter''s a good one, but I think you''re being unfair.NCISA is an independent supporter''s association.  In your post, you are asking NCISA also to:(a) conduct investigative journalism into takeovers and publish the findings (thus cutting off future access to the club''s key people as they would be pissed off with NCISA if they did this)(b) explain the vagaries of club ownership rules and regulationsThat''s simply not their remit.Also, are you a member of NCISA?  If you are not, how do you know how well informed its members are at present?  If you are, why are you washing your dirty laundry in public when you could contact Tilly/Kathy directly?

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]Based on my past experiences with them..............arse lickers.............the lot of them![/quote]

An arse licker am i ? I cannot be bothered to reply as there is some paint i have to watch dry idiot.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="Soldier on"]Good post Ive continually expressed an interest in joining NCISA and offering my opinion but have received no reply to both a personal email and private message sent via this bulletin board.[/quote]

Any problem with joining via the NCISA website rather than using this messageboard? If so send your details to me at J.TILSON@SKY.COM and i will personally take your application on board and forward to our membership secretary Clare Williamson.

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

John,

where are NCISA in the process of collecting opinions, not having a dig but it does seem to have been a while since that was the stand. Is there a timescale for when NCISA will put forward it''s conclusions / way forward etc.

 

[PurpleCanary 6,387]

Mister Chops, to take your points not quite in the order you put them.

1. I am a member of NCISA. The tyranny of distance makes me necessarily an inactive one.

2. I put my views in open letter rather than privately because, as I said in my original post, I had given up hope of receiving my questionnaire, and because I believed some of what I had to say might interest non-NCISA people as well.

3. I wasn’t suggesting NCISA should have indulged in investigative journalism but simply that it could have produced a factual guide to Cullumgate in order to scotch some of the misconceptions. Unless NCISA had gone further than I was advocating and actually taken sides then I fail to see how such an exercise could possibly have annoyed the club.

4. Am I asking NCISA to go beyond its remit? This is the real question. What is NCISA’s remit? During Cullumgate it was effectively silent, apparently content to be a social club. Now it seems to want to act as a pressure group. How else to explain the questionnaire? How else to explain the following on NCISA’s homepage:

”NCISA committee members are as concerned as every other supporter of Norwich City over what is happening at both Carrow Road and at Colney. There are many questions and even more rumours over what is going on. We need to know what both our members and the wider fanbase think, so please email us, or ring John or Kathy to let us know what you think so that we can represent your views to the Club and the media.”

All of which is fine. But in that case none of what I was saying NCISA could and should have done during Cullumgate and could and should be doing now, especially in terms of thinking about what kind of new owner it wants, is remotely beyond the remit NCISA seems to be setting itself.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]

John,

where are NCISA in the process of collecting opinions, not having a dig but it does seem to have been a while since that was the stand. Is there a timescale for when NCISA will put forward it''s conclusions / way forward etc.

 

[/quote]

The deadline for returning questionaires is 21st December and once the committee have met and digested the returns Neil DONCASTER has agreed to meet with us to discuss the opinions expressed.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Mister Chops, to take your points not quite in the order you put them.

1. I am a member of NCISA. The tyranny of distance makes me necessarily an inactive one.

2. I put my views in open letter rather than privately because, as I said in my original post, I had given up hope of receiving my questionnaire, and because I believed some of what I had to say might interest non-NCISA people as well.

3. I wasn’t suggesting NCISA should have indulged in investigative journalism but simply that it could have produced a factual guide to Cullumgate in order to scotch some of the misconceptions. Unless NCISA had gone further than I was advocating and actually taken sides then I fail to see how such an exercise could possibly have annoyed the club.

4. Am I asking NCISA to go beyond its remit? This is the real question. What is NCISA’s remit? During Cullumgate it was effectively silent, apparently content to be a social club. Now it seems to want to act as a pressure group. How else to explain the questionnaire? How else to explain the following on NCISA’s homepage:

”NCISA committee members are as concerned as every other supporter of Norwich City over what is happening at both Carrow Road and at Colney. There are many questions and even more rumours over what is going on. We need to know what both our members and the wider fanbase think, so please email us, or ring John or Kathy to let us know what you think so that we can represent your views to the Club and the media.”

All of which is fine. But in that case none of what I was saying NCISA could and should have done during Cullumgate and could and should be doing now, especially in terms of thinking about what kind of new owner it wants, is remotely beyond the remit NCISA seems to be setting itself.

[/quote]

Purple i can only say sorry if you are a member and did not receive a questionaire.Clare Williamson sent out over 200 e-mails and around the same by post so if you send me your details to J.TILSON@SKY.COM i will chase it up for you.

[Erik the Viking 0]

In my opinion NCISA are doing a very good job in a difficult time for the club, they are the only supporters group that has made any stance on the issues at the club and also gave the other groups an opportunity to speak up but received very little feedback. I look forward to the results from their recently compiled questionnaire especially with the latest revelations this morning of potentially swapping Bell for Ward which sums up the dire financial position we are in....

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Gazza"]In my opinion NCISA are doing a very good job in a difficult time for the club, they are the only supporters group that has made any stance on the issues at the club and also gave the other groups an opportunity to speak up but received very little feedback. I look forward to the results from their recently compiled questionnaire especially with the latest revelations this morning of potentially swapping Bell for Ward which sums up the dire financial position we are in....[/quote]Gazza, could you please enlighten me as to what stance they''ve made? I thought the reason for the questionaire was to decide exactly what stance to take but you suggest they have already done that.

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]Based on my past experiences with them..............arse lickers.............the lot of them![/quote]

An arse licker am i ? I cannot be bothered to reply as there is some paint i have to watch dry idiot.

[/quote]

Thats my opinion an ex member, NCISA''s record is one of not rocking the boat, the truth hurts doesn''t it?

[PurpleCanary 6,387]

1st Wizard,

if your experience of NCISA was an unhappy one that’s a shame, but I’m baffled

as how it’s relevant here.

The principal reason I made this an open letter was to encourage people – NCISA

members, ex-members, non-members – to think about what they want from whoever

succeeds Smith and Jones as owner.

I know what I want. Do you? Have you even thought about it? If not, would it

not be more productive to stop and think about it? The easiest thing in the

world, as your contribution to this thread shows, is to be negative and

destructive. Is it beyond you to be constructive?

[WeAreYellows49 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="still holding out for new heroes"]

John,

where are NCISA in the process of collecting opinions, not having a dig but it does seem to have been a while since that was the stand. Is there a timescale for when NCISA will put forward it''s conclusions / way forward etc.

 

[/quote]

The deadline for returning questionaires is 21st December and once the committee have met and digested the returns Neil DONCASTER has agreed to meet with us to discuss the opinions expressed.

[/quote]

Well that''s a step forwards, well done and keep up the hard work.

[Erik the Viking 0]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Gazza"]In my opinion NCISA are doing a very good job in a difficult time for the club, they are the only supporters group that has made any stance on the issues at the club and also gave the other groups an opportunity to speak up but received very little feedback. I look forward to the results from their recently compiled questionnaire especially with the latest revelations this morning of potentially swapping Bell for Ward which sums up the dire financial position we are in....[/quote]Gazza, could you please enlighten me as to what stance they''ve made? I thought the reason for the questionaire was to decide exactly what stance to take but you suggest they have already done that.[/quote]

As regards meaning a stance I meant the questionnaire which is at least the first step.......

 

PS we''re doomed!

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

. Is it beyond you to be constructive?

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<!--[endif]-->

[/quote]

Of course not PC, not when its called for.

But I have attended NCISA gatherings in the past, and I saw which way the wind was blowing then. If I could disuade one person joining that group I would, independent?.................................. of course they are! [:|]

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 417]

[quote user="Gazza"]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Gazza"]In my opinion NCISA are doing a very good job in a difficult time for the club, they are the only supporters group that has made any stance on the issues at the club and also gave the other groups an opportunity to speak up but received very little feedback. I look forward to the results from their recently compiled questionnaire especially with the latest revelations this morning of potentially swapping Bell for Ward which sums up the dire financial position we are in....[/quote]Gazza, could you please enlighten me as to what stance they''ve made? I thought the reason for the questionaire was to decide exactly what stance to take but you suggest they have already done that.[/quote]

As regards meaning a stance I meant the questionnaire which is at least the first step.......

 

PS we''re doomed!

[/quote]

I think they call that creative journalism.[;)]

[PurpleCanary 6,387]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

. Is it beyond you to be constructive?

[/quote]

Of course not PC, not when its called for.

[/quote]Well, it''s called for now. So go ahead and be constructive. What do you want from a new owner? I''ve listed 10 points. What is on your list?

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

. Is it beyond you to be constructive?

[/quote]

Of course not PC, not when its called for.

[/quote]

Well, it''s called for now. So go ahead and be constructive. What do you want from a new owner? I''ve listed 10 points. What is on your list?[/quote]

Total honesty...............thats all!

PS. and a new manager....................Steve Tilson would be my choice.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

24 hours ago i invited PurpleCanary and Soldier On to e-mail me directly with regard to missing questionaires and membership applications respectively and neither of you have bothered so maybe a little less negativity towards NCISA might be in order.

As for 1st Wizard and his anti NCISA crusade ,e-mail Kathy or myself and we will meet up before a game if you want.If you seriously think that any member of the Committee is arse licking in the corridors at Carrow Road have a word with Neil Doncaster,Roger Munby or Joe Ferrari for starters.If having communication with the club is deemed as arse licking guilty as charged.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 417]

Wizard at a game,now that made me laugh, you''ve got more chance of bumping into lord Lucan at a game.[;)]

[lucky green trainers 0]

imo - the only criteria that a buyer of NCFC should need to fulfil - is having the cash!!!cos in the current market, if you haven''t got any cash, you won''t be able to fund your purchase of NCFC in any other way...and moreover, if you''re prepared to take on a footy club in the steepest recession ever, then surely its for the right reasons...cos surely every investor wants to be successful,,,don''t they???i laughed at the conditions for a new buyer for pompy when they were announced recently,,,just no way jose - we''re in unchartered waters economically,,,take what you can get - cos any asset sale wil be undervalued in the current conditions,,,so, for me, money talks - and thats how a sale will go through...for a club losing £10k a day, to have pre-conditions for a sale is crazy and unworkable...

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

 

As for 1st Wizard and his anti NCISA crusade ,e-mail Kathy or myself and we will meet up before a game if you want.If you seriously think that any member of the Committee is arse licking in the corridors at Carrow Road have a word with Neil Doncaster,Roger Munby or Joe Ferrari for starters.If having communication with the club is deemed as arse licking guilty as charged.

[/quote]

Once bitten twice shy TIL, sorry, but I have no great desire to meet with the NCISA people, I find your organisations self important stance off putting.

Inch High:

I''ve had this crap before from you, I get to Carrow Road when and if I can afford to...............agreed, its not as much as others, but I do get there, I just don'' feel the need to broadcast it like some do on here.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 417]

Well maybe next time you turn up you''ll be riding Shergar.[:P]

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="1st Wizard"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

 

As for 1st Wizard and his anti NCISA crusade ,e-mail Kathy or myself and we will meet up before a game if you want.If you seriously think that any member of the Committee is arse licking in the corridors at Carrow Road have a word with Neil Doncaster,Roger Munby or Joe Ferrari for starters.If having communication with the club is deemed as arse licking guilty as charged.

[/quote]

Once bitten twice shy TIL, sorry, but I have no great desire to meet with the NCISA people, I find your organisations self important stance off putting.

Inch High:

I''ve had this crap before from you, I get to Carrow Road when and if I can afford to...............agreed, its not as much as others, but I do get there, I just don'' feel the need to broadcast it like some do on here.

[/quote]

Arse lickers and now self important whatever next? Where on earth are you coming from? Having spoken to committee members your identity appears to be unknown so  your "once bitten twice shy" stance has got lost along the way somewhere.Never mind i expect we will get over you.

[ca 1]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

 Having spoken to committee members your identity appears to be unknown so  your "once bitten twice shy" stance has got lost along the way somewhere.Never mind i expect we will get over you.

[/quote]

 

I know that gazzathegreat has met the 1st Wizard  ( think she said it was in the Chase Out protests days)

[First Wizard 0]

[quote user="cityangel"][quote user="TIL 1010"]

 Having spoken to committee members your identity appears to be unknown so  your "once bitten twice shy" stance has got lost along the way somewhere.Never mind i expect we will get over you.

[/quote]

 

I know that gazzathegreat has met the 1st Wizard  ( think she said it was in the Chase Out protests days)

[/quote]

Ah heady days Angel, and for your info Til, and your clappy happy little band of followers, Mr Blowers was head of your mob back then.  

[As my login causes problems [ :o) ] 0]

[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Ah heady days Angel, and for your info Til, and your clappy happy little band of followers, Mr Blowers was head of your mob back then.  

[/quote]

 

Wow I''ve never been called one of them before, don''t tell Nutty as he thinks I''m some rabid unwashed German anarchist.