blahblahblah 2 Posted October 12, 2008 I would have thought that Carroll could have had more influence on the result if he had stayed on the pitch. If he goes off, Bywater comes on after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camuldonum 0 Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="blahblahblah"]I would have thought that Carroll could have had more influence on the result if he had stayed on the pitch. If he goes off, Bywater comes on after all.[/quote]You''ve obviously never seen Bywater play[:|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 12, 2008 I wonder if we would be awarded the points if it was proven? That would be ironic!There have been a lot of very poor refereeing decisions recently as well so it could be any number of games! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="we8wba"]if any game is found to be fixed/have someone trying to fix itdoncaster 1-0 up vs 10 men barnsley half timeimagine odds on barnsley to over turn that at half time?then win 4-1[/quote]That''s the obvious one, but the Barnsley man was sent off after half-time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syteanric 1 Posted October 12, 2008 fixing a footbal game is nigh on impossible unless all 11 players are in on it... (Marseille 1993 champions league run)..Take our game for example.. Carroll gets sent off.. now, supposing someone in Asia has a large amount of money on us to score, say in the 56th minute... (not sure what the exact time of the goal was... for the sake of arguement we will use 56th minute), Carolls off.. now what? the better must think he''s going to win the bet as we will score the penalty, which we did, but what if Sammy Clingan had skied it over the cross bar.. or if Bywater had saved it? i don'' thtink theres anything in it.... its much harder to rig a game with just 1 person.. jas :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syteanric 1 Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="Salahuddin"]From what Fingers has said the Norwich game looks to be the one to me. If the odds during half time were as he indicated then it''s got to be. Obviously if it was the one, the plan went wrong. As with any fixing tho it was always going to be far from guaranteeed. giving away a pen and having a player sent off would be enough to make Norwich strong favourites but not guaranteed to win. If it was the game the people betting on it forgot one important thing. Norwich are appalling. From the betting forum, sad but true.[/quote]thing is how would Roy Carroll know what the odds at half time were when he''s sitting in the dressing room listening to Paul Jewell talk crap...?jas :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Salahuddin"]From what Fingers has said the Norwich game looks to be the one to me. If the odds during half time were as he indicated then it''s got to be. Obviously if it was the one, the plan went wrong. As with any fixing tho it was always going to be far from guaranteeed. giving away a pen and having a player sent off would be enough to make Norwich strong favourites but not guaranteed to win. If it was the game the people betting on it forgot one important thing. Norwich are appalling. From the betting forum, sad but true.[/quote]thing is how would Roy Carroll know what the odds at half time were when he''s sitting in the dressing room listening to Paul Jewell talk crap...?jas :)[/quote]I wouldn''t imagine he would place the bets himself. He could very easily have been sent a text or something - I am sure there are ways and means! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syteanric 1 Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Salahuddin"] From what Fingers has said the Norwich game looks to be the one to me. If the odds during half time were as he indicated then it''s got to be. Obviously if it was the one, the plan went wrong. As with any fixing tho it was always going to be far from guaranteeed. giving away a pen and having a player sent off would be enough to make Norwich strong favourites but not guaranteed to win. If it was the game the people betting on it forgot one important thing. Norwich are appalling. From the betting forum, sad but true.[/quote]thing is how would Roy Carroll know what the odds at half time were when he''s sitting in the dressing room listening to Paul Jewell talk crap...?jas :)[/quote]I wouldn''t imagine he would place the bets himself. He could very easily have been sent a text or something - I am sure there are ways and means![/quote]not so sure jim... takes me back to my previous post i made about how they''d all have to be in on it...jas :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Salahuddin"] From what Fingers has said the Norwich game looks to be the one to me. If the odds during half time were as he indicated then it''s got to be. Obviously if it was the one, the plan went wrong. As with any fixing tho it was always going to be far from guaranteeed. giving away a pen and having a player sent off would be enough to make Norwich strong favourites but not guaranteed to win. If it was the game the people betting on it forgot one important thing. Norwich are appalling. From the betting forum, sad but true.[/quote]thing is how would Roy Carroll know what the odds at half time were when he''s sitting in the dressing room listening to Paul Jewell talk crap...?jas :)[/quote]I wouldn''t imagine he would place the bets himself. He could very easily have been sent a text or something - I am sure there are ways and means![/quote]not so sure jim... takes me back to my previous post i made about how they''d all have to be in on it...jas :)[/quote]You will never get a whole team in on it. Whilst its called "match fixing" what gos on in football tends to be more about individual players doing what they can to influence a game. With the amount of things its possible to bet on during football matches now (or cricket matchs or a whole number of sports) then I assume they don''t actually need to fix the result of the match! Who knows what has gone on. No doubt we will fidn ut in tiem although i''d imagine this sort of thing si very hard to prove! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joanna Grey 0 Posted October 12, 2008 [quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="Salahuddin"] From what Fingers has said the Norwich game looks to be the one to me. If the odds during half time were as he indicated then it''s got to be. Obviously if it was the one, the plan went wrong. As with any fixing tho it was always going to be far from guaranteeed. giving away a pen and having a player sent off would be enough to make Norwich strong favourites but not guaranteed to win. If it was the game the people betting on it forgot one important thing. Norwich are appalling. From the betting forum, sad but true.[/quote]thing is how would Roy Carroll know what the odds at half time were when he''s sitting in the dressing room listening to Paul Jewell talk crap...?jas :)[/quote]I wouldn''t imagine he would place the bets himself. He could very easily have been sent a text or something - I am sure there are ways and means![/quote]not so sure jim... takes me back to my previous post i made about how they''d all have to be in on it...jas :)[/quote]It''s not about the player making bets, it''s about the player getting paid thousands by the betting syndicates to throw the match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bobert 0 Posted October 13, 2008 This whole thing makes me feel sick in the pit of my guts. The FA need to come out quickly and state which game they are investigating. Thinking beyond this game it would seem a very good reason for banning loan players as players with a loyalty to "their" club would, I assume, be less likely to try and fix a game for the opposition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dhickl 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="PBTC"][quote user="we8wba"]if any game is found to be fixed/have someone trying to fix itdoncaster 1-0 up vs 10 men barnsley half timeimagine odds on barnsley to over turn that at half time?then win 4-1[/quote]That''s the obvious one, but the Barnsley man was sent off after half-time.[/quote]"Traders for British firm Spreadex noticed "a massive movement at around half-time...In this case the handicap made an enormous, unexplained swing that would indicate a major on-field event when nothing of that nature had occurred. However, later in the match a major on-field event did occur.From the report, it looks like they were referring to an event after half time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SWP = Poor Mans Ruel Fox!! 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="Bobert"]This whole thing makes me feel sick in the pit of my guts. The FA need to come out quickly and state which game they are investigating. Thinking beyond this game it would seem a very good reason for banning loan players as players with a loyalty to "their" club would, I assume, be less likely to try and fix a game for the opposition.[/quote]I love the impression some people have of loan players. By attempting to fix the game any player has no loyalty to the sport of football, and would do it no matter who he was playing for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky green trainers 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="NCFC_Thain"]"Traders for British firm Spreadex noticed "a massive movement at aroundhalf-time". An expert, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said hehad "not seen anything like this in 10 years of working in theindustry" and expressed concern for "the integrity of the English game".Inthe Asian gambling market it is common to place a handicap on one ofthe teams. In this case the handicap made an enormous, unexplainedswing that would indicate a major on-field event when nothing of thatnature had occurred. However, later in the match a major on-field eventdid occur.After investigating what our source described as"strange patterns" in betting, The Sunday Telegraph sent a document tothe FA and the Gambling Commission on Friday. An FA spokesman said: "Wewill consider any evidence which is brought to our attention. We arecommitted to thoroughly investigate any allegations of this nature."TheFA and the Gambling Commission do not have jurisdiction in the case ofoverseas bookmakers but do have to uphold the integrity of the game.The enormous financial power of the Asian gambling industry has longbeen a concern to regulators in this country.The twoPhilippines-based bookmakers on which the swing was detected are SBOBETand IBCBET. There is no suggestion of impropriety on their part. Bothbookmakers declined to comment."[/quote]half-time movements, and thats BEFORE the pies!!!sure, this puts a different colour on it,,, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camuldonum 0 Posted October 13, 2008 The FA this morning are still declining to say which clubs are involved and say they have not spoken to any clubs at this stage. Today they begin evaluating the evidence provided by the spread betting organisation.Interestingly, however, the Telegraph are today reporting that the match involved contained two incidents - Norwich v Derby certainly had two incidents - the linesman being replaced by the fourth official apparently through injury in the first half and also, of course, Carroll being sent off.Not sure if an injured linesman would count as an incident but it''s certainly unusual of course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky green trainers 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="Camuldonum"]The FA this morning are still declining to say which clubs are involved and say they have not spoken to any clubs at this stage. Today they begin evaluating the evidence provided by the spread betting organisation.Interestingly, however, the Telegraph are today reporting that the match involved contained two incidents - Norwich v Derby certainly had two incidents - the linesman being replaced by the fourth official apparently through injury in the first half and also, of course, Carroll being sent off.Not sure if an injured linesman would count as an incident but it''s certainly unusual of course.[/quote]imo - i''d be doubtful if its a champs club involved - surely its more likely to be league 2/non leagues??? where players earning small beer could be tempted to influence the outcome of their match??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Bump 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="Camuldonum"]The FA this morning are still declining to say which clubs are involved and say they have not spoken to any clubs at this stage. Today they begin evaluating the evidence provided by the spread betting organisation.Interestingly, however, the Telegraph are today reporting that the match involved contained two incidents - Norwich v Derby certainly had two incidents - the linesman being replaced by the fourth official apparently through injury in the first half and also, of course, Carroll being sent off.Not sure if an injured linesman would count as an incident but it''s certainly unusual of course.[/quote]imo - i''d be doubtful if its a champs club involved - surely its more likely to be league 2/non leagues??? where players earning small beer could be tempted to influence the outcome of their match??? [/quote]It was a Championship game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 13, 2008 Or you could also say that a penalty and a sending off are two fairly major incidents even though they happened at the same time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky green trainers 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="Mr. Bump"][quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="Camuldonum"]The FA this morning are still declining to say which clubs are involved and say they have not spoken to any clubs at this stage. Today they begin evaluating the evidence provided by the spread betting organisation.Interestingly, however, the Telegraph are today reporting that the match involved contained two incidents - Norwich v Derby certainly had two incidents - the linesman being replaced by the fourth official apparently through injury in the first half and also, of course, Carroll being sent off.Not sure if an injured linesman would count as an incident but it''s certainly unusual of course.[/quote]imo - i''d be doubtful if its a champs club involved - surely its more likely to be league 2/non leagues??? where players earning small beer could be tempted to influence the outcome of their match??? [/quote]It was a Championship game.[/quote]for sure??? if so, imo barnsley/donny could fit the bill - probably their players will be among the lower earners in the league... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="Mr. Bump"][quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="Camuldonum"] The FA this morning are still declining to say which clubs are involved and say they have not spoken to any clubs at this stage. Today they begin evaluating the evidence provided by the spread betting organisation.Interestingly, however, the Telegraph are today reporting that the match involved contained two incidents - Norwich v Derby certainly had two incidents - the linesman being replaced by the fourth official apparently through injury in the first half and also, of course, Carroll being sent off.Not sure if an injured linesman would count as an incident but it''s certainly unusual of course.[/quote]imo - i''d be doubtful if its a champs club involved - surely its more likely to be league 2/non leagues??? where players earning small beer could be tempted to influence the outcome of their match??? [/quote]It was a Championship game.[/quote]for sure??? if so, imo barnsley/donny could fit the bill - probably their players will be among the lower earners in the league...[/quote] YES IT WAS A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. Whilst I will grant you that the score swing in that game is suspicious the problem is it would have to have been several players in on it whereas these things tend to relate to individual players doing something to try and influence the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevee Wonder 0 Posted October 13, 2008 It was not the Norwich V Derby game. Because...it was apparantely a game from last season. From the BBC Gossip.The FA is to investigate match-fixing claims into a Championship game last season after strange betting patterns. (Various) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="Stevee Wonder"]It was not the Norwich V Derby game. Because...it was apparantely a game from last season. From the BBC Gossip.The FA is to investigate match-fixing claims into a Championship game last season after strange betting patterns. (Various) [/quote] Well various other sources including the telegraph have said it was a "recent" championship game and I think i''ve also seen reference to it being 2 weeks ago somewhere as well. BBC gossip is hardly gospel! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yellow blood 0 Posted October 13, 2008 William Hill''s spokesman says it could have been last season (as quoted in today''s Racing Post) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camuldonum 0 Posted October 13, 2008 For what it''s worth, the Mirror say it is this season. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/10/13/30-players-and-five-clubs-in-football-match-fixing-claims-115875-20799111/Graham is a news reporter, not sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Smith 2,319 Posted October 13, 2008 Couple of big clues in that story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="dhickl"][quote user="PBTC"][quote user="we8wba"]if any game is found to be fixed/have someone trying to fix itdoncaster 1-0 up vs 10 men barnsley half timeimagine odds on barnsley to over turn that at half time?then win 4-1[/quote]That''s the obvious one, but the Barnsley man was sent off after half-time.[/quote]"Traders for British firm Spreadex noticed "a massive movement at around half-time...In this case the handicap made an enormous, unexplained swing that would indicate a major on-field event when nothing of that nature had occurred. However, later in the match a major on-field event did occur.From the report, it looks like they were referring to an event after half time.[/quote]Yes, was just correcting we8wba. That match doesn''t fit for me, even if you knew Doncaster were about to have a man advantage the odds wouldn''t be worth it since they were already ahead by half-time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevee Wonder 0 Posted October 13, 2008 Fair enough. Seems like pretty much everyone is guessing as to when/how etc it happened?We may never know, or we might find out in the next couple of weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gentleman Jim 0 Posted October 13, 2008 It would take more than one player in a team to reliably "fix" the result of a match, in this day and age it''s unlikely that enough would be prepared to do so and if a non compliant player was approached he would soon blow the gaff.The only single individual capable of influencing the result, the referee, even he is part of a four man team and it would take some really weird and one sided decisions from him alone to have an effect, and we seldom see that. . . ., do we ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barclay_troy 0 Posted October 13, 2008 [quote user="Woodstock"][quote user="we8wba"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_div_1/7665670.stmand fans discussing it on forumhttp://site.forum.betfair.com/jive3/betex/ThreadsFrameset.jsp?forumID=25&threadID=1699734 dodgy matches apperently out of barnsely v doncaster and norwich v derby[/quote]They also need to look at:Coventry v NorwichNowich v BlackpoolMK Dons v NorwichNorwich v QPRBarnsley v Norwich[/quote]what about Bristol City v Norwich City last season.[8o|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pete Raven 276 Posted October 15, 2008 http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=NewsSplash&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=NOED15%20Oct%202008%2019%3A42%3A20%3A820 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites